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The problem is a lot of people don't seem to know what makes a good breeder. They think that throwing together good looking cuts and doing some S1 is what makes a good breeder, "Looks fire so it must be a great breeder" on the other side there is the "Oh, this guy is running classic heirlooms, he must know what he is doing". The real good old school breeders are actually typically the guys in the US who were trading cuts in the underground long before any of the dispensaries started showing up. There are a lot of good podcasts out now by highly respected breeders, and just listening to them discuss the source of their cuts will get you in tune with who is really doing good work out there - and give some insight into the breeders which are publicly praised but were shady fucks in the industry who screwed over other breeders. People see hype more than they do anything else. There's also unfortunately a lot of people still stuck in the 90s, thinking that breeders who were putting out hype strains back then must still be doing good in the game. And because South Africa was quite limited in its exposure to the US underground breeding scene, not a lot of growers here are actually aware of the 'real OGs'. The problem here is that we see European genetics as superior, thanks mostly to the fact that they were the ones who controlled the foreign genetics market here for decades. Look at SkunkVa from Lucky Dog Seeds, that dude was part of the group of travelling 'dead heads' who basically just followed The Grateful Dead around America, and in that community you had some of the best growers of that time sharing cuts between each other, and creating fucking legendary strains. SkunkVA is known for his Chem '91 cut ( worth listening to how it came to be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zizcd3O92ps ) - but there is very little interest locally in these guys who originated classic cuts. If you're looking for quality breeders that have a good balance of old school but without being stuck in the past look at: - Riot Seeds - Archive - Lucky Dog (he almost exclusively works with his Chem cut though, so not much variety) - Bodhi - Duke Diamond etc There's a lot of other guys doing really good work and still actually breeding with males and females and not just seed making (silvering fems), but the above are some of the more respected guys who typically have the best connections to original cuts. With the Chem '91 mentioned above, SkunkVA himself has said majority of people claiming to be working with the cut don't actually have it (and its his cut). So one can't simply just look at a lineage or cut and take it at face value. To find the best breeders, listen to the originators of legendary cuts and see who they vouch for. You'd be surprised by how small the list really is. Granted my list is a little US leaning, but that's honestly where I see most of the quality coming from - and it makes sense given that the new legal infrastructure there offers such a good platform for breeding development Locally, I do like the work that Jay does. He has an interest in heirlooms, but isn't afraid to throw in some killer genetics from more 'hyped' breeders like OG Rascals (a personal favourite if you're into OG lines). As for which strains I've grown that I liked the most... My favourite strains haven't typically come from the "best breeders" and in some cases were even from dudes whose breeding practices are hated by 'real breeders' - Colin from Ethos has what is considered some terrible breeding methods, but the flower (assuming it doesn't herm) can still be really satisfying to grow if you're doing it for bag appeal or flavour. It's been difficult to get high quality breeders genetics here, so most of the strains I'm looking forward to running have only just made their way into my collection, but I'm definitely looking forward to my: Archive, Dungeon's Vault, Cannarado, Swamp Boys, Thug Pug Just give this a watch before you buy more Dutch genetics (addresses both Reeferman and Sensi mentioned by Chris above):

I'm not saying it isn't the light but there are other factors that can also lead to airy bud, namely high heat. How's the temps in your grow area?

Yo @Totemic you can also make a cardboard disc to push onto the top of the soil (cardboard pressing into the sides of the pot), similar to how they ship small plants, before adding the black bags like @CreX mentioned. Helps a bit with losing soil and the mess from letting them travel on their sides. Cardboard disc just needs a hole for the stem in the center, and a slit from one side to the hole, so that you can guide it into the pot. Good luck with the move bro.

I agree that COBs Fluence light is the way to go. I don't agree with that other dude about diodes being better. I call chicken poop, diodes won't beat cobs. However quantum boards will beat the cobs. So if you buy quantum boards or cobs you'll be better off. If you going with diode LED and you aren't planning on spending 15k it won't be worth it. Just ask Justin how my 700w Mars ii series performed. Like a wanker... Toss that wankstain in the closet and upgrading to Gavita DE HPS 6/750 Sent from my G3312 using Tapatalk Hey Pat !! I eventually found you bro. I been wandering what u up to? Been looking on other 420 forum for you. Just got a Gavita pro e series 1000w DE. I hear you using Gavita too now. Awesomeness!! Im about to build a 2m x 2m x3m h grow room. And yes. LED not for me. Bought plenty. Got a 600w that gave airy heads. Now use for veg only. See you around. What LED did you use, saying "LED not for me", without actually stating the brand does not really mean much. There are many top performing LED lights on the market. You just need to head over to the international forums to see the grows they're doing with them. If you're talking about those garbage lights from MARS and a few other brands then sure. Burples are crap, state 1000 watts lucky if they push out 200. I am running two of my five quantum boards at the moment, each pushing out a true 300 watts per board (multimeter confirmed), they can be pushed to around 350-400 watts but they get pretty toasty then. Five of these in my tent with a combined output of 1520 watts, however I will dimm them down to 1000 watts to keep them cooler. 900 watts in the image attached, I'm waiting for my quantum sensor to arrive to get the actual readings. Definitely was not quantums. Was what was available at the time. Yes i have seen some great grows on international 420. I've heard about your lights. But gone the old trusted route. Hopefully one day we can compare nugs always open to new things Perhaps, what I lack in in yield I’ll make up in electricity savings. Considering I’m primarily growing to breed and cross breed I’m okay with that.

Yeah those that sell by the gram

Good day Growmies So I have a question for the guys that have been at this, way before 2018. The real OG,s and guys that just know more then me. So I want to know, in your opinion. Who are the best breeders and which are the dankest strains you've grow. I am not looking for your everyday and especially not the main stream things. Why I ask, because as everyone know, I am still to see a havest . So I am not rushing and taking my time in selecting strains and growing them out to select the best pheno types. I am looking at starting a mother collection. I would appreciate as much information and if you have links, pop them in. Happy new to everyone and all the best for the new year.

Hi Guys.Thought you might be interested in checking the below https://www.rxleaf.com/thcp-discovered-cannabinoid-stronger-than-thc/

Unfortunately a very small percentage in cannabis. Could be possibly bred to increase the percentage, but how strong do we really need our weed? Some shit I've smoked has really cooked me already

@Za Weed Lover I'm in agreement with you... What defines a quality breeder to me is when you fork out $60 for a 6 pack of regulars and when you pop them you find phenos that it was bred for in just 6 seeds. You will also find that these seeds were bred in a sealed chamber with a limited amount produced. Empire breeding company is rocking the FIRE right now in the states.

So I have grown very hard, dense buds as well as rather airy bud under the exact same LED lights - heck, it was part of the same grow just 2 different plants and therefore different genetics. Distance from the LEDs were the same, power was the same and since it was in the same tent even the environment was the same. Good lights make a massive difference for sure, although there are many other contributing factors. I have mentioned this before, I like to use the example of a professional athlete and compare them to seeds / genetics. They have the potential, although in order for them to reach their full potential they need to make sure they eat properly and rest sleep and train hard etc. (lights, environment, nutes etc.) If you have all of that right, it is a winning combo - so good quality lights and good genetics and grown well. Then if you were to take an average Joe, perhaps someone like myself. No matter how hard I train or how I eat and so forth - I won't end up at the professional athlete level. I could have the best of everything but genetically it just isn't going to happen. I feel the 2 biggest factors in a grow are genetics and quality lighting. Environment often fluctuates a bit in most grows, nutes there are plenty of different brands and most are decent etc. etc. Having the best genetics but shitty lights and growing conditions will yield shit still. On the contrary, having shit genetics but amazing light and growing conditions will also yield shit.

That's cool cause everyone likes a nice surprise. Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Working smart and not hard...

Woooow that looks gorgeous [emoji7] Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

Seems like I have been neglecting my veg area... Well... At least neglected to show you guys All the plants are pretty happy and thrips are under control... Must do another neem soon though. Check it!

Haven't had the time to do anything to her yet. As she stands today.

She is looking good. Stout plant with lekker buds. Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Well the wife went to the mall and it was time to water and feed. So with the misses out of the house I fetched this monsterous plant and brought her inside and placed a fan near her to get rid of any wetness from the rain we got. After 6 hours of drying her out I continued to the next step. Instead of feeding her today I opted for a good dose of Epsom Salt and gave her a flush. From today onwards I want to keep to the 3 day cycle of watering and feeding. The buds is starting to fill out more and I can start to feel the buds getting some body and firmness The leafs at the top started to cup after that heat wave we had. I thought that was the reason, but it hasn't recovered yet. None of the other leafs lower down is doing it so I'm not to worried. At first I thought that my pH was off cause I just watered with tap water a few times before feeding due to running out of nutes......in January. And the tap water pH is 7.8 The buds themselves is super sticky and I only managed to do a very light defoliation because she is very bushy and getting in there is rather crap, but I'm keeping my eye on the plant to make sure every bud site gets as much direct sun as possible...

Carefully..

Wait for her to dry out a bit... So that she's light enough to carry solo, if possible. Then take a black bag and wrap the pot in the bag and tie the bag around the stem. Then you can lay her horizontally for the duration of the trip in your boot, and then bobs your Aunty you're all set! Alil medium will fall out, but that's why you have the black bag tied around the stem, it will prevent lots of dirt all over your car, and makes the whole process easier

Oh my....her stretch is going. Any advice on moving her to a new house. She has gotten mighty big, already much bigger than I'd hoped by month end. She is super happy though, 1.3m ground to tip, and 1m all round. It's just how do I move her...

Very sativa dominant, I kept one to flower out. 23rd November. About 2 weeks after transplanting to 20l pot. And LST. Today. Transplanted into a 45l. Flowering is just about starting. Absolutely loving this heatwave we are experiencing. Moving house at month end and I still have to figure out transporting her. I'll probably surround her with the beds etc on the trailer.

Sorry forgot to mention www.growlikejoe.com, he is not the breeder but works with some great old school genetics. Worth their weight in gold. My best strains I have grown: Nigerian 99 and Senegalese Haze from old afropips ( no longer, but growlikejoe still has genetics ) Malawi Kush - from growlikejoe, ( my plant in the pic ) Pure Kush - GHS Pink Kush from Reeferman Sour Gelato from Greensmokeroom ..... and the list can go on.

My best local breeder is Jay from Amadeadly Seeds. His genetics are worth collecting, he has a facebook page only. Easy to find, also I think he has amalgamated with another bank. I am sure they are great, he does not pussy foot around. International commercial breeder I would suggest the following seeds: Sannies Seeds - https://www.sanniesshop.com Reeferman ( be careful lots of fakes ) - currently only sold in Canada, but will be sold worldwide soon. Sensi Seeds - buy through seedsman or direct from their site. Not to sure if they ship to SA. Good luck and lets keep this list going.

Amen. Lol

I’m doing my first run with all LED, seed to harvest. Day 26 of 12/12.

I am not a big fan of led's at the moment purely due the price to run a decent cob setup. I run 2x600w Hps in a 1.5x1.5m tent and both those lights+ bulbs+ballasts were a fraction the cost of the admittedly fong kong lights I bought before. When a multi chip led has a failure it starts a fun game of fault finding and if your chip failed under an acrylic lens then unlucky for you but the lens will have probably melted too vs either a the bulb is dead or b the ballast is dead. Cheap leds at 70lm a Watt will not compete with Hps especially once they start breaking down after a few grows and then you kicking yourself because the increased cost for longevity was not worth it. Now the expensive kind with a proven track record are great but again very expensive and I would only consider them If I plenty extra cash fell on my lap or for what ever reason I could not manage my temps then they would for sure be worth it. For a newbie who will face many trials and tribulations on their first few grows and then only really start to get the hang of producing top tier bud once these lessons have been learned. Do not go in and buy 15-20K worth of lighting as you will fuck something in your grow up eg over-watering/loved to death and then what was the point of this massive investment. Get a few grows under a 400w Hps or a 600w Hps before you consider a good quality led light or a diy cob equivalent but for heavens sake do not waste your cash on fong kong led's. Right now I have 3 shells that are all sitting doing nothing because I will never repair them.... and that was about 9k from aliexpress a few years ago for 3 x bsled sp 140 which if some remember was rated almost as good as the hydrogrow led it copied. I managed 3 good runs before all the leds started to fail with the first being those uv/ir chips then the blues started to go and of course the one fan driver died so all the chips blew... Stick to proven cost effective lighting and if you are a experienced grower then you already know what your setup needs. I for one would like to run an additional 200w true of led broken down into 4 50w cobs but of one of those spectrum enhancers for led so lots of blue and a bit of 660nm red that the hps lack. 1400w of juice in a 1.5x1.5 tent would be pushing the limits without extra co2. A efficient 600w sodium plus led spectrum enhancers would be a force to be reckoned with I believe.

Yeah, the customer who was going to do the side by side didn't go through with it, so I just have the results, from one grow to another. Not exactly science, since primary strain changed between grows too. Both indica strains though. In a 1.2*1.2m, Their g/W went up from 0.6 g/W with 600W of 3W LEDs, to 1.1 g/W with the 600W QB&reds fixture. (10 weeks from rooted clone to harvest). The results are consistent with the electrical efficiencies of the lights, (~30% vs ~56%), for what it's worth.

I agree that COBs Fluence light is the way to go. I don't agree with that other dude about diodes being better. I call chicken poop, diodes won't beat cobs. However quantum boards will beat the cobs. So if you buy quantum boards or cobs you'll be better off. If you going with diode LED and you aren't planning on spending 15k it won't be worth it. Just ask Justin how my 700w Mars ii series performed. Like a wanker... Toss that wankstain in the closet and upgrading to Gavita DE HPS 6/750 Sent from my G3312 using Tapatalk Hey Pat !! I eventually found you bro. I been wandering what u up to? Been looking on other 420 forum for you. Just got a Gavita pro e series 1000w DE. I hear you using Gavita too now. Awesomeness!! Im about to build a 2m x 2m x3m h grow room. And yes. LED not for me. Bought plenty. Got a 600w that gave airy heads. Now use for veg only. See you around. What LED did you use, saying "LED not for me", without actually stating the brand does not really mean much. There are many top performing LED lights on the market. You just need to head over to the international forums to see the grows they're doing with them. If you're talking about those garbage lights from MARS and a few other brands then sure. Burples are crap, state 1000 watts lucky if they push out 200. I am running two of my five quantum boards at the moment, each pushing out a true 300 watts per board (multimeter confirmed), they can be pushed to around 350-400 watts but they get pretty toasty then. Five of these in my tent with a combined output of 1520 watts, however I will dimm them down to 1000 watts to keep them cooler. 900 watts in the image attached, I'm waiting for my quantum sensor to arrive to get the actual readings. Definitely was not quantums. Was what was available at the time. Yes i have seen some great grows on international 420. I've heard about your lights. But gone the old trusted route. Hopefully one day we can compare nugs always open to new things

I agree that COBs Fluence light is the way to go. I don't agree with that other dude about diodes being better. I call chicken poop, diodes won't beat cobs. However quantum boards will beat the cobs. So if you buy quantum boards or cobs you'll be better off. If you going with diode LED and you aren't planning on spending 15k it won't be worth it. Just ask Justin how my 700w Mars ii series performed. Like a wanker... Toss that wankstain in the closet and upgrading to Gavita DE HPS 6/750 Sent from my G3312 using Tapatalk Hey Pat !! I eventually found you bro. I been wandering what u up to? Been looking on other 420 forum for you. Just got a Gavita pro e series 1000w DE. I hear you using Gavita too now. Awesomeness!! Im about to build a 2m x 2m x3m h grow room. And yes. LED not for me. Bought plenty. Got a 600w that gave airy heads. Now use for veg only. See you around.

Yeah I have a temp probe in my canopy - running my lights at around 70% (3x Vero29 3500K COBs being driven at 2.1a). My canopy temp is around 2 degrees hotter than the probe at the pot level.

@Josh Yeah, I spoke too soon there. My friend who was going to do the side by side bailed on the plan. He had some issue with nitrites or nitrates in the tap water (DWC hydro), when dam levels were scraping the barrel. We were going to start over but then the clones bounced back after getting an RO filter, and he just wanted to grow them out. So the comparison is postponed :/ Learned some new things though, regarding leaf surface temperature, ambient temperature and relative humidity. Cape Town winter was pretty cold, and the ambient temperature had noticeable impact on growth. 700nm infrared, and heat is a missing link between LEDs and HPS. HPS is giving off large amounts of infrared (at least 10%, and up to 50% on some ceramic hps) whereas 3000K QBs only have about 5% infrared (though many photons will end up bouncing around and losing energy until they're infrared). So it's not clear what can be done about the 700nm infrared, other than using higher CRI LEDs, but it is clear that ambient temperature has to be raised (regulated), which raises leaf surface temperature indirectly. There's some good graphs with information about the 'green zone' ratio of ambient to leaf surface temperature (http://opennlabs.com/vpd/VPD_calculator.php) and I'll need to take this into account on the next try.

@ Growopz, have you started on the side by side grow? If so, how are things looking? Sent from my ALE-L02 using Tapatalk

When you have instruments to measure with, you can easily determine huge differences without having to be scientific about it. Anyone who doesnt have a quantum meter talking about lights, specifically LED, since HPS is an established and well documented technology, is bullshitting themselves. You cannot convert lux/lumens to get PAR Flux. I will say this: my experience, backed by measurements indicates that small op growers place FAR too much importance on BIG lights. Beyond 700umol/m2/second, 95% of home growers are wasting money. Without supplementing CO2 and controlling all the other things that go along with that. If youre not pulling 1g/w, its not your lights, its you. Before anyone says anything: are you covering your canopy with 700umol/m2/sec? How did you measure? Your auntie told you? OK.

What a lol this whole topic is. The best bit ofc being "I have never actually used HPS but in my opinion" lol.

Its not about which form factor is brighter. Its about which one can get the most even coverage to the canopy, at the least wattage, and heat output. Heat is wasted energy. Just look at the best lights on the market- diodes spaced out over a large surface area. Think SANlight, Fluence, etc. You dont need powerfull diodes when youre spacing them out evenly over the canopy. 3w diodes running at 55% put out plenty enough PPF to give me 800+ umol at 20cm OVER THE ENTIRE CANOPY. A cob can easily do 800 umol, but only over maybe 2 x2 feet. At the edges, it’ll be far less. Yes, rand for rand, cobs are better for cabinet and small tent growers. You’re only covering maybe 1m^2. When you start getting into larger areas, wasted wattage adds up. Think about watering a lawn. Do you use a fire hose to water a lawn? No. A fire hose can definitely deliver enough water. So why not? It delivers too much water at one place. Cannabis can only use so much light per second. You can blast them with 1000 umol, but they will only use about 700 umol efficiently. The rest is wasted energy. I’m talking sans CO2. Rather water the lawn with a sprinkler. It delivers the water at a speed that allows the soil to take the water in efficiently, without wasted runoff. Many diodes spaced evenly over the whole canopy is like the sprinkler. Targeted PPFD. No waste, no heat.

I agree that COBs Fluence light is the way to go. I don't agree with that other dude about diodes being better. I call chicken poop, diodes won't beat cobs. However quantum boards will beat the cobs. So if you buy quantum boards or cobs you'll be better off. If you going with diode LED and you aren't planning on spending 15k it won't be worth it. Just ask Justin how my 700w Mars ii series performed. Like a wanker... Toss that wankstain in the closet and upgrading to Gavita DE HPS 6/750 Sent from my G3312 using Tapatalk

I run 2x 600w HPS and 3x SW4 in a 2,4 x 1,2 tent. HPS for shear power, LED for frost. Works good. Saving up to replace the above with 2 x Fluence Vyprx+ fixtures. Took umol readings at the store last week. HPS is dead.

Theres still a lot of misinformation floating around, and while you’re on the right track Justin, lets get the terminology right, so everyone can get on the same page regarding LEDs. First off, the best LED grow lights will alway use diodes. The reason is simple- diodes have become powerfull enough that they work well, and prices will only come down. COBS work very well, but since they are a point source, they cannot give you optimum coverage. Many diodes spaced intelligently, kept at the correct distance will beat COBS all day long. They run cooler, and are more efficient overall. PAR is Photosynthetically Active Radiation. It is not a measurement of intensity. PAR only defines the spectrum. PPF- Photosynthetic Photon Flux is a measurement and tells us how many PAR photons a light emits per second. PPFD-Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density is a measurement of how many PAR photons are landing on a given area per second. Think of it like a birdshot shotgun shell. The balls are the shells PAR. The shell has only so many little lead balls in it (PPF). If you shoot those balls at an object close to the muzzle, they all hit close to each other, in a concentrated pattern (High PPFD). Fire at an object further away, and the balls will disperse and land over a larger area (Low PPFD).

Not necessarily, there are some good lights out there still using diodes, just ensure they using from reputable manufactures. Here is something to consider, an extract to read through to guide you along the way. When you’re choosing a grow light, ignore the specs on lumens. Lumen ratings are to measure brightness for human eyes. Pay more attention to specs like PAR and wattage as well as the manufacturer’s guidelines on coverage. PAR stands for photosynthetically active radiation. It’s the light’s intensity as well as what colors it emits. Broad-spectrum bright light will make your cannabis thrive. PAR measures light emitted in the 400nm to 700nm spectrum. That’s from the blue end up through red and into infrared. The higher the PAR number, the more useful the light is for growing. Some LED grow light manufacturers say their panels put out nearly 100% usable light. None of it is wasted by going to heat instead of light like metal halide or high pressure sodium lamps. Most manufacturers say something like their light covers 2.5 feet by 3 feet at a height of 18 inches. When you’re sprouting seeds, you don’t need intense lighting. But when you’re flowering, you will. Pay attention to those specs on area covered because you don’t want to be 8 weeks into growing and realize your light isn’t strong enough to encourage blooming. A panel that might be bright enough when hung two feet above your soil for sprouting a lot of seeds might not cover enough area when lowered down to 12 to 18 inches height for flowering. Buy your panel based on how many plants you want to bloom unless you’re only purchasing just for sprouting. In summary, look at these specs: Area covered PAR Wattage — How much power does the light draw at the wall? What’s your electric bill going to be? The higher the wattage the higher the yield in theory. Sent from my ALE-L02 using Tapatalk

HPS above CFL all day. HPS vs LED is a tuff call as depends on what LED your getting. HPS will beat the old school LED all day, the new LED beat the HPS all day (gonna get a bit of slack for the last bit I suspect lol). Check out Growmaus for an indepth look. Sent from my ALE-L02 using Tapatalk

14 days in and a light Frost is forming , she seems to be keeping up with the hps nicely at this stage.

Not much to report , pics taken 6 days into flower and first bud sites are forming fast but about the same as my ladies under hps.

Been about a week now so update time... Took about 4 days for the plant to adjust to the new light , think I had it to low to start so have her a bit of a shock. She is drinking and eating roughly 22% more than her siblings , she lost a little colour dew to the fact I didn't realize at the start she would want more food . The leave are slightly more leathery than her siblings as well , this can be expected with the added uv. Not much to see at the moment , she will start flowering in 2 weeks . Cheers

@alemo I don't expect anyone to give me anything , I paid for my light like everyone else lol and I think it was worth every cent . You also know as well as I do that 10k for proper lighting is not a lot @Thatoneguy no idea yet to early to tell , you have probably read the same stuff I have about cmh now it's the practical test. So far I am well impressed with this light but it's still early days , the ladies are loving life u see it.