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in my opinion - flushing is a waste of time and energy. 100% bro science i have not flushed my totes in years, and further to that, i have not even tilled my totes in months and have only been growing better and better meds every run. If you have a healthy meduim with the correct amount of nutes, your plant will obviously be healthy too. you wont have burnt tips, no deficiencies or toxicities and buds that will continue growing until harvest day. If you want to reduce harshness in your buds you need to improve your drying and curing skills, as well as feed less toward the end of flower so the plant can naturally fade while it finishes up - flushing does not induce a fade, it will induce deficiencies that look like a fade. the only time you should flush your meduim is when you have trouble with a toxicity, where the flush will aid in removing excess nutes. if you have been feeding moderately then you will not run into toxicity issues. reuse your meduim, innoculate with microbes and fungi... the proof is in the pudding!

I honestly believe that your plants are a super smooth smoke and you have your system highly dialed in brother. Where the information on this topic gets miss-lead is always back to all the variables that come with growing cannabis. @Ill_Evan said it quite well above. If you can put in all the right things at the right time. You are in essence running at ''optimal'' more consistently, as best case scenario allows tent growers, ending with a plant that is more adapt to using everything is has. Now if you wondering weather to flush or not, ask yourself one question. Did I, at any point in the grow think that more = More, then there's your answer.

I wonder if this entire time the method of flushing religiously before harvest was due to growers spiking their nutes mid flower instead of reducing off their nutes and they "flush" late flower because their pots are just bricks of salt, and only the flushing part made it into popular culture.

We have lift-off. Only 3x Crystal Haze so far, better than nothing.

no flush till harvest - more chlorophyll to break down during curing. flush before harvest - less chlorophyll to break down during curing. more chlorophyll in buds - harsher smoke less chlorophyll in buds - smoother smoke ease pease, bra

thank you for this and not going out of your way to call anything "bro science" or any other "silly names" @CreX I didn't even call your statements "bro science" even though that's literally all it is. I gave you the benefit of the doubt while you came at me swinging and crying. I am not out to get you or catch you slipping, I mean you no harm, nor do I to anyone, but I will not be told actual science is bro science when in fact the reality is just that you like to do things a different way than the theory would have it. and by theory I mean it explains facts with evidence. just because you do it differently and have results you're happy with doing it your way doesn't make factual studies any less factual. infact, if you say I have a bias, can you quickly quote me where I said what kinda weed I prefer? if you can do so it's a miracle. you, on the other hand, have stated countless times that your theory is based on nothing but your past experience. that's the defenition of having confirmation bias. no science behind that. what my point is, I have no bias, I was repeating evidence. you don't have to agree with it. that's alright. but it's not gona change what the results of the study was and it's not gona make it any less of a study because you feel so. your science is bro science, because it's based on nothing but your feelings. I won't say anything more cz I am tired of pussy footing around peoples feelings, especially if they have fuckall factual evidence themself and wana fight everi bit of information given to them by pouring anger out all over the story. sorry for those who where just here having a conversation, I was enjoying the valuable back and forth untill the "bro science" was used so contradictingly. sorry for those who had to bare witness and most of all sorry to @Slartibarfast for turing your thread into a octagon ding ding ding, I'm out ✌✌✌ take it ease ouens, I'll take some time to reflect on my actions and try to come back a little softer for you all so I don't get so argumentative

I let my plants cannibalize themselves in the last 14 to 16 days. In the last 10 years, I've done both. Feed to the end, as well as "flush" at the end. To clarify, I'm not actually flushing anything. I just let the plants starve at the end. Doesn't hurt my yields, and in my experience, I get a smoother smoke.

Ding ding ding... well there you have it folks, in a head-to-head round of the highly controversial flush debate the outcome is once again a stalemate

Catch you guys again in a year for the same thread/debate

Watsup folks. Nothing major here. Just thought I would share my interesting way of lighting and controlling the temps in my clone dome. Which is also not in a tent but in a cupboard on its own. Gets lonely in there so I thought I'd make it cozy. This project is not the cheapest or anything but of leftover things I had lying around....trust me.... I had a heating pad and 240/12v converter just lying around. I got a nifty little power box, some twinflex wires and a sonoff sensor. I bought some led cool white strips which was also very cheap. These had a sticky back and I could bend it quite abit. I took the cupboard board out and stuck my LED at the bottom of it. That then connects to the 12v converter where th 240v power comes in. I think you could probably buy 240v LED strips but I don't know if they are as versatile as the 12v LED strips. I also run these lights 24 hrs a day. No timer but you could add one very easily in the power box. I connected the heating pad to a sonoff sensor and then to the 240v power. The sensor is a little black wire that runs from the power box to the dome. I set my temps so that if the dome is colder than 20°C the heating pad will switch on and off if it is warmer than 24°C. This helps alot in winter but in summer it doesn't help much. All in all not the cheapest or easiest project but could maybe help someone with their own ideas on how to build something like this. Also to expand and add more would be very easy too. Thanks for watching.

Haha all good. So I took the plunge and flushed. Will stick to my original plan :) Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

This topic again lol. Cant agree more with this statement. I have not watched the video. However, all the plants reserves are supposed to used up somewhat by the time of harvest. This ensure the best cure. Then smooth smoke. Chlorophyll is the green pigment, we know chlorophyll is not just nitrogen, its many many other elements and compounds. So, in my mind flushing is quite necessary with nutes. This is just to get the plant to use up all reserves. (FLUSHING in my mind is just watering on a normal schedule) Some say its not necessary, which is fine, people are allowed to have their own opinion. BUT logically, if not flushing. You gotta really be super scientific in your dosing approach and understanding what the plant is using out of that nutrient to finish with a smooth smoke. Maybe they feeding such an insignificant amount towards the end that it really doesn't effect anything negatively. Also a possibility.

Trimming day! Started early this morning and finished just after lunch. Caught some bud rot again but not nearly as much as the last batch. I'm sure I might have even lost this batch if I had not reduced the humidity when I did. If I never see bud rot again, that would be great. Managed to get a fat 3L jar worth this time around. Jirre I might have gotten another 1L worth if it wasn't for the bud rot. Tsek. I'll update in a few days on the dry weight.

yo - we could look into it - i see you have posted in the correct place, but you are right - lets ask the captain if he can sort that out for us all. @420SA https://www.420sa.co.za/forum/18-hydroponic-growing

Ding ding ding, Take a step back, no you take a step back man. Love this lively debate. I believe in flushing, it makes common sense to me, regardless of debate and science. You know when you been pumping too much stuff into your system, chips, crisps, chocolate, LSD, etc, you do a detox to revitalise your body, thats how I feel about growing cannabis, detox it at the end. The science says there is no proof that flushing adds any value, screw science when most of the world still believes in a man born 2000 years ago and his word is stone. Further to my waffle, what I like about flushing plants with water is it bulks them up with H2O, look at a plant how quickly it absorbs the water on a hot day. I think it helps with the curing process too, it slows down the drying for a nice smooth curing process. Added benefit is you save on nutrients. Put that in your pipe.

And another hot topic debateGotta love to hear everyone's opinions on different matters. This is after all why we are here for. To grow and to learn. I myself have learned a fuck load since joining this community. Sometimes egos do come in the way of a debate but hey, that's human nature. Lets keep on learning from each other and leave the egos at the back door. Peace brothers and sisters

Always an interesting subject. To flush or not to flush. I used to flush the medium once or twice in flower while using salts. More to lower the buildup of salts, and kind of reset the medium for a fresh feed. But with organics I feed right up until harvest. Any plant fade is in my opinion the plant is going hungry. I'm not talking about anthrocyanins from cold, but Nutrient deficiency fades. Sure fades are beautiful, but still a sign of a hungry plant. Since I've moved on to keep feeding until harvest, my plants leaves mostly remain a vibrant green, and the resulting flowers I harvest have no pronounced drop in quality, nor are they harsh...

you take a step back man - you are contradicting the shit you are trying to defend. to the point that you are ignoring the videos words saying the best smoke from the blind test was the 0 day flush, and the worst was any of the others that had a flush, all just to save a bit of time and a bit of dirt cheap nutes? where are your priorities man? great smoke, or shortcuts to your time consuming hobby? i literally just said i reuse my medium, so its not a waste for me because any left over nutes just go to the next plants.... i absolutely save more money than most people by reusing my meduims...way more than a few lame tips would save me..... 1+1=2 type stuff if i was throwing away my medium, then maybe ill think about starving my plants a little before harvest. you know...so i can put it toward the next 300l of meduim i buy.

Eish bru, plants finish when they realizes there is no/less food.

Dude - the video you posted straight up abolishes the necessity of flushing, and then he sums up a few lame time saving tips and minor nute saving tips. of which the time saved and nutes saved over the period of 5 years would still be negligible. the okes with all the equipment and advanced tech and money pretty much pointed out with great detail how little a difference it makes to the final product... in other words, its total bro science that it makes any difference. seeing as i reuse my medium, the "waste" would just go into the next cycle for the next set of plants to uptake. i also need to feed my plants very regularly, regardless of phase of veg or flower, so i would just not be saving any time on that watering front. no, this is not what i am saying at all - a plant fading because its hungry, vs a plant fading due to it reaching the end of its biological clock are completely different. i feed my plants right up until harvest day for the reason i mentioned above, as well as because the plants i grow fade by themselves giving me a really good idea for when they are ready - some plants take a much longer time to naturally fade than others. Consider outdoor plants and how they flower and then fade - how would you explain that then? because most outdoor plants get plain water the whole way through its life... Not arguing... well i am a little bit... but im just trying to elaborate on my experience without flushing and the success i have had, and am just trying to get the point across that flushing is absolutely unnecessary for a great yeild, and the factors around harsh smoke black ash and taste is largely dependent on the way the herb is cured

this a mid grow flush in synthetic situation for adjusting ppm, so depending on given ppm it could be justified, but eh. not really what we're discussing here. or am I only listening with one ear again?

if you not aiming to harvest when the plant is ripe - continuing a plant that finished its flowering cycle will make the buds go airy till they start dying back and the plant starts pushing foxtails wanting to reveg. aiming to harvest around harvest time when the buds are ready you should be allowing the plant to do what it naturally does - stop feeding it about a week before you harvest. what's the point in pushing the plant in any way shape or form if it doesn't increase anything in any way shape or form? you're literally just risking ending up with harsher smoke.

Boom! Hitting the nail on the head for centuries the smartest minds that dwelled the earth thought the earth was flat, still till today in 2022 we have people with their own opinions on the matter, because all measurable science is just "out to hurt their feelings" or something along those lines. OK, I get what you're saying, but wasn't the discussion about the difference flushing and not flushing??? In this discussion I don't really care what causes more or less harshness over all. we where talking about flushing and not flushing and that happened to be one of the points made. if we wana discuss all that can be done around harvest time to reduce harshness, that's a whole different discussion my guy, of which flushing will also be a part of again. with living soil you also don't need to feed nutes to the plant all the time, only when the plant is hungry, most of the time you're giving clean water. the plant itself, when it comes to the end of its cycle it will naturally take in less and less of certain compounds. if you're still giving nutes at that time, again you're wasting and you're force feeding the plant and it'll probably just go through to the next season. when the plant is finished creating buds for it's 8-16 week flower period, it won't put on more weight it wont get stronger it wont get less harsh (don't know how that's even a point in this argument) it wont do anything for you, except waste your time and money. again.

@Weskush this topic used to have many different opinions, but there are also a bunch of facts coming to light. did you watch the video? there is quantified scientific merit to their study with tests done by chemical analysis machines. opinions on the topic is becoming less and less relevant. what you asked - it's easy - you been doing this for a while, take a bud with loads of chlorophyll in it and smoke it and compare it to smoking a bud with less or almost no cholorophyll. which one do you think will be harsher? do you really need a study to tell you what that outcome will be....? it's quite simple actually. there was a smoke report in the video? did you watch the video? it comes down to the difference in yield quantity and quality if you keep feeding till harvest. and the answer was - no difference. I guess a more extensive study could be done on a few different strains, but to me that bit of information already gives me the answer - it's beneficial to flush. I can't understand it for other people and I won't try to debate it, because in my mind there is no debate. it basically comes down to time and money you'll be wasting if you keep feeding. nothing else much to it. ✌

This topic will have many different opinions. I would love to see a smoke comparison between flushing/non-flushing a synthetic nute grow aswell as an organic nute grow.

what's good friends I believe there are benefits to flushing and it's not bro science at all. I am giving the benefit of the doubt to the debate thinking the counter argument is that if some guy wanted to keep feeding nutrients a week before harvest that someone should tell him there is no point as it doesn't increase yield, terpene, thc or anything and he should save his time, money and resources. - then yeah I get it... but I have seen a lot of people tripping up over people who want to flush, like they should be feeding till harvest day. that argument I don't understand... here is a video discussing a study done on this subject, the video also has a link to the source in the description... I was gona suggest out the whole plant in the freezer hahah nah man I think there is no slowing down maturing trichomes man, especially with autos those things just move to finish up asap

Can a new category be added to indoor growing / hydro growing for Autopots and Blumats?

Interesting debate. I personally don't flush now, but I used to when I first started growing because that's what every site says. My experience with flushing is that you essentially telling the plant to finish regardless of what stage it's at. This all depends on your setup also, so my issue is that I had exposed plants growing outside, and I learnt from previous years budrot and mielie worm f ups you want your plants to finish before the heavy rains and those caterpillars, but anyways back to the subject. My new no flush made more sense once I started dialing everything in and using synthetic nutes. I now feed up to 1500 ppm or slightly more/ less if the plant can handle it, and then do slight taper down to 800 ppm when I harvest. I use this method for plants in dwc and in coco and found my yield to be better and plants to have more flavor when I keep feeding but slightly taper until harvest. A large part also depends on the plant genetics, so you need to find something that is adjustable for your gene pool and growing method I guess. The reason for the taper is that you don't want to starve or limit the plant in any way, without taper you get darkish emerald green leaves at harvest which is surely going to lead to a harsher smoke. As for the cure, I just dry over 5-7 days and throw it into those black sealable curing bags that self burp. My weed is delicious, burns pure white ash and I have taken samples off a plant before a traditional flush and samples from the same plant afterwards, dried them the same, cured them in 2 separate bags and I couldn't tell the difference, so that is my experience. No flush seems like a recent thing and I have embraced it,hell, if I can cut out 3 more steps from growing my own cannabis than I will do it, getting old now! Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk

Last add on to this thread from my side.

They are legit. But the seeds do not always pop. 2 from 5 Blue dream seeds made it.

you get very argumentative on many subjects in many topics dude, im not just going to let you steam roll everyone with your bias to flushing.

yes, exactly the proof is in the pudding!!! in the pursuit of truth, when you're calling someones work and actual science people have done in labs with machines and advanced technologies that cost lots of money and time a "100% bro science" just means you looking for an argument, which I believe you are not doing? here's some of that pudding you where talking about https://rxgt.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/FlushingTimes_TrialReport.pdf sooooo, on the point of what is more wasteful... with this statement it is safe to say you agree that plants naturally stop using nutes towards the end, right? so help me understand how it is a waste when you're saving on nutrients because you don't have to give them because the plant doesn't want more AND you don't have to mix them? then you also say, not having to mix nutrients is both a waste of nutrients and a waste of time, even though you're doing less. I would like to understand that a bit better aswell. I think the concept of "flushing" kicks it's heels in by "flushing toxicities out". In the video about the study the guy is clearly differentiating between flushing toxicities and flushing at the end of the plants life. the confusion here is, because flushing at the end of the plants life does not mean pouring 20L of clean water through the medium like you would when you wana reduce ppm. reason - when you flush toxicity you're aiming for a specific desired ppm, so what ppm you aiming for when flushing at the end of its life? I hope no one is saying 0000 ppm, or even 0005ppm for that matter or even 0010ppm or 0050ppm, because that would be silly. that would cause deficiencies for sure, even within the first 24hrs of sitting in too low ppm. this type of flushing would make even less sense in a organic situation, because organic growers re-use their soils, why the poop-on-my-face would anyone wana even try flush organic soil down to 0000ppm. besides the point, hydro and organic, the plant will stress. the aim is not 0000ppm on the first day of flush, the aim is to slowly reduce the overall ppm towards the day of harvest by not giving anymore nutes and sticking to just clean water. no nutes whatsoever, but also the amount of water is just enough to give a teetsy bit of runoff. to reduce ppm to get it to be as little as possible on harvest day. what is in the plant and medium is enough for the plant to ride it out till when she's ready to chop. lets think alternatively. toxicity flushing - pouring 20L of clean water through the medium every day and in the study say they did up to 14 days. imagine for 2 weeks doing that every day? that would probably do more damage than good and I hope no one has been doing this. a saturated 0000ppm medium is just asking for root rot and with fully developed buds and constantly soaked pots could probably end up with super high RH in the buds risking suuuuper wet harvest, PM right before harvest, bud rot and all that fancy jazz. in the case of the study it's a good example to show that generally when people speak about flushing before harvest it's a complete different process than flushing toxicitties out. when people state "these ladies are getting their last feed" typically from then till harvest day is the "flush before harvest" people speak of because then they only getting water and the plants are making due with whats left in it and the media, with the two keys being - don't harvest the day after you feed, because the plant will have compounds in it still needs to break down and this may cause harsh smoke, and the second one, wait till the plants are turning yellow indicating the advancing breakdown of chlorophyll, again reducing the harshness of the smoke... you can draw your on conclusions from that, but for me that only means one thing.

The reason for flushing is believed to reduce harshness in the smoke by reducing/removing salt/nute buildup in the root zone before harvest as you know. That's what the aim of flushing is believed to be right? Many different opinions on this subject

@Naughty.Psychonaut i haven't watched the video yet. Flush or no flush. Drying/Curing method is a way stronger determining factor in harshness of the smoke. Personally i feed only water until runoff about a week before harvest in a container grow. Living soil no container grows, no flush obviously.

I have been reading a lot lately of people abroad, and locally, that says flushing is bro science and it apparently doesn't make any difference. How true this really is Im not sure. I doubt theres a way to slow the process down but Im still a beginner when it comes to growing.

Hi! I have 2 auto plants that have a decent coverage amber + cloudy trichomes. I recently watered with nutrients on Saturday but now want to flush and harvest on Friday. Are there any suggestions to stop the trichomes maturing furher while I flush and wait for Friday? Since I do not want them maturing too much further. I was thinking of flushing with FloraKleen this evening. Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

Overgrow are totally legit. No issues.

guys, you may save your nutes and money and time, don't listen to him. he just doesn't like me aint no debate, mate

cool

@CreX I'm gona take a step back, to let you cool off. Infact I'll take many steps back, cz this clearly has two right answers. I think your experience is giving you a little confirmation bias. You're not angry or emotional at me, it's the information that doesn't sit well with your seasoned experience, because I was just repeating the information given based on the study. contradicting myself is a little rich coming from you since you been saying the whole time that doing less and using less resources is a waste of time and money c'mon man, I am not trying to offend you. but for real.... I use biobizz, when I have 10 plants in full flower, 4 in 20L pots get getting 2L every 2 days, and 6 plants in 60L pots outdoor that gets 3L every day. over a week of 7 days that's 150L of water every week. right? Giving biobizz bloom nute in late flower 4ml/L = 600ml of biobizz bloom every week. doing that for 2 weeks when I could have saved 1.2L of fucking biobizz bloom? how do you know what financial state I am in that that should be negligible??? are you kidding me? you're just gona randomly assuming EVERYONE has money to waste? and you know the bigger the scale operation the bigger the waste. soooooo????? I might be OK in that regard, because I am small scale with an allright cashflow, but the one thing I don't have to waste is time. I am not even doing everything I wana do and I don't have time to waste, don't know bout you.? bro.... not trying to be funny, but what's up? you can't be this offended by this topic alone? where are my priorities? fuuuuck me, have you smoked my weed? don't think you wana cause you'd probably not like it cause I flush mine I reuse my soil and sometimes the ppm in the medium is still too high for seedlings or small cuttings after two weeks of clean water. where is this wasting that I am doing? I actually have to add perlite and peat to the rich medium to reduce the organic matter for younger plants and keep them in seperate small pots. you make it sound like I am throwing nutes away when actually I am just not giving any more...

Nice man! That Epic 5:2 is the bomb

I've read the same but so far I have only not flushed one grow and found that grow to be the harshest smoke. Perhaps I did something else wrong with it but feel like it might have been not flushing. Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

The plants are settling nicely, except one sherb crasher on the right, over watering prior to the repot. All plants don’t drink the same. decided to do some training on the clones, the gg#4 (only seed) got topped. Animal cookies grows like a beast, Quattro kush look super intriguing and GG#4 is looking strong Gave them a spray of Epic 5:2 for the heat.

Geez thats sounds like such a nice problem to have. Look forward to seeing what that tent gives birth to every couple of weeks. Keep them clones coming!!!!!

So the chop today. Must say this is the biggest plant I’ve grown in my little space so far and smelling sooooo sweet Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I should add that I saw zero benefit from Cibusil and Anngrow. So I won't be bothering with those anymore.

that seems to be the general consensus... small nugs, underwhelming yeild. but my fuck is it frosty and the terps are mind melting!! it really is a tough decision to drop it from the garden... subsequent crosses with the plat punch seem to bring the frost through as well as larger nugs, so keep an eye out for Plat punch crosses as they are generally fire

Final day of light.