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Seeds in coming. Now I can have a proper look through these one day. And anyone else who wants to.

Prom, Thanks for an excellent post. The information in there is exactly the kind that I can work with. Thanks for the offer to help calculate the room consumption. Luckily I can do that to a T. Energy simulations still is some of the primary work I do for my customers, usually just on a MW scale. So, I am planning a 2.4x2.4 room for one reason only: So that I can in the beginning have walking space inside. Grow space will be no more than 2 m2. I certainly consider a type of hydronponic or autopot setup. I do like what I see form the Autopot. The 6 fresh air chages per minute is something I did not expect. That is a SERIOUS amount to cool or heat. For cooling, I just won't have the power for AC, but I do have a bore hole so I can do it geothermally. I have almost 20 meters of water column which gives me a few kilowatts of cooling. With 6 air changes per minute cooled geothermally, I should be able to stay below 26°C, but I will have to have a custom coil made. Yes, I know the TD-series fans well. We use them all the time. They are certainly some of the better products out there. So, are the air changed needed 24/7, or only when the lights are on?

The barrier is 26 degrees not 30.. over 30 things just turn out as bad as they can get. You have to include active cooling.. hence A/C.. and your cost just doubled. I recommend to shut down indoor growing in Summer, if you do not have a fully isolated room to work with, cooling cost will drive you nuts otherwise. Cooling is less efficient compared to LED diodes.. so the biggest factor of a perfect setup is the cooling.. and if you want to run 'perfect', A/C is imperative... as you will also run it during winter to keep it at 20... if you run a commercial setup. Is a huge difference to produce yourself some weed to smoke or produce top quality material. What size tents you want to run? I can give you an estimate of your power cost. With the estimate of power consumption you can design the solar setup to bridge your tent(s). You will put a lot more in as the household would need. So once load shedding stops.. you will have a over dimensioned setup. As indicator, a 2.4x2.4 tent will eat about 48-96 kwh a day (no A\C cooling, with A/C double it)... normal house hold uses 10-20 kwh per day, depending if it has a pool and solar geyser. A 288 Quantum Board will set you back 25-30$US.. plus cooler and the driver.. cooler and driver you can use on other boards if you change. 4 QBs 100$.. is not the biggest investment for a test run (1.2x1.2 tent). As said, if you want to go perfect, you don't need a Lux meter.. you need a PAR meter (science doesn't guess.. hard facts or is just toying around anyhow). You want perfect weed, you have to stay below 26 degrees at all time, best 20 dead flat... just to get that dialed in, you will spend 1000's of $ till you have the right A\C setup with the control units handling all automatically. If you plan to go nuts.. I would honestly suggest to also go additional CO2 to get maximum harvests from that expensive setup. So you will run 2 cooling circles. One for the plants and one for the lights. I would in this case also go hydro and not soil, makes your life easier feeding wise.. and at least 4 2.4x2.4 tents to make it run even. What means.. you will have high costs learning to grow the plants. Every fuckup will set you back around 50-100k in cost you have to cover next harvest.. you hopefully get. So if you say.. naa, no A\C.. why bother for the light so much? As said, get a grow light from a known producer. Now you know that your light is a working one.. then learn to grow the plant and get your weed tested. Most growers are shocked to find out.. average potency is 12%... not 20 or 30%... average private grower test results are a lousy 12% You get 20% from a strain able to produce 30%.. then you can say: OK, i know what I do, now lets build a perfect setup and see if I can reach the 30%. And yes.. people reach that.. so the target is set.. reaching it is a totally different story.. and you will practice for years till you get there.. perfect setup or not, at the end it counts how happy you keep your plants, the setup helps you, but you have to make every decision yourself.. your setup will not prevent mistakes you create Is why i said.. don't overthink.. would start with a setup you know works and not a new invented wheel.. also use a known fertilizer brand and proper genetics. You know your tools work, only one to blame for a fuckup is yourself, no excuses. Is like you want to build the perfect F1 race car but never driven a race car in the first place. Light is the engine... not the driver. Best car and a shitty driver will end with bad lap times... hence 12% thc content on average. Not so easy when a new generation diodes comes out. More efficient.. less draw.. so you add diodes to reach same draw for your driver or you have to add a dimmer.. if your driver can't handle a dimmer.. new drivers for your setup. Then, if you add diodes or not, you have to remeasure your hanging scheme with a PAR meter to have em in the right area again (Proper grow lights give you the hanging distance for each stage). If you would hang em just same as before, you would waste your efficiency gain. So only rule.. never ever buy old diodes for a grow light, that is hyper short minded as the 50$ you save on the diodes will get eaten by Eskom in 1-3 months and after that time your 'awesome' deal delivers less light and uses more electricity... for the next years. Why not shot in your leg just for fun? ^^ The interesting part of growing is that in a lot of cases the first run comes out rather nice and the next runs after more as fails, what confuses people. The reluctance of the first run and just follow orders on the fertilizer bottle gets to the right result. Next run people simply start to over-care and things turn sour suddenly. "But i watered more regular"... yup, they never got the dry phase needed.. "But i defoiled much better this time"... no, you defoiled constantly and kept the plant confused. A little change can have nasty results even you don't notice them. That is why i say... use your knowledge and the information you gained in your research and just start. If you never grew indoors, I would start with a smaller size tent.. 1.2x0.6 is a perfect tent to learn the ropes and understand what the plants tell you. You see your plants pray, you know you do things right. Na, is fresh air exchanges, so the capacity going in and out the tent. I would say you need to shift at least the same capacity inside the tent. I combined my intakes with plant ventilation but you need another 4 40cm desk fans at least in a 2.4x2.4.. beside the 2 150mm inline silent fans going in (if you go cheap on inliner's, you will hear your tent room on the other side of the house during night). With 2 going out, 4 total. Mine sounded like a turbine factory till i exchange the cheapos with TD-500 silent inliner's.. ~15k Rand gone just for the new air exchange in and out the tent. But worth it, you can easy talk in the room now. The desk fans make it about 2 years till you have to get new ones. A grow room is a running project, the bigger, the more gear you run which can fail. So cost: Power for lights, air circulation, cooling and gear controlling the setup plus heat mat(s) for cloning box(es). Fertilizers (each run has a certain cost), cloning gear/seeds, air purifiers (carbon filters or ozone generator) and all the side gear like UPs and DOWNs, test kit calibration solutions and grow medium (soil, coco, rock wool, clay pebbles,... endless). Beside the toys you need.. Pen for pH, ppm, EC and the quantum flux PAR meter. If you go for quality.. just those 2 tools can easy set you back 12k Rand... and depending how you grow, they are both simply a must. Go soil with a biological fertilizer, get your lights from a grow shop (no not anything HID related, they love to sell it as it looks cheap, it isn't) and start growing some weed 18 weeks after you started your journey, you know a lot more about everything in regards to growing indoors. You will not reach perfection till your learned the ropes.. is why I say, don't overthink, just start, you put enough thought into light.

Been a while. This is currently in the dungeon Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"Hope this video does not give you incentive to run to the nearest grow shop and grab some aminos just to go add it to your regime" - Actually, that's what I am trying to avoid. "Hell yeah bud, nice to see you studying the right stuff" - I like to dig deeper into rabbit holes to see where and how they all connect and correlate, there are so many ways that "lead to roam" that I would watch multiple videos, read articles, etc on the same subject and as they branch out to what I feel is relevant to what I want to or in some cases, need to know. I never knew that terpenes in plants 'communicate' to each other through all the processes happening in soil, the balance of bacteria and fungus etc. So, thanks for directing me deeper into that direction. Still very much into the rabbit hole, I just wish I had more time., lol don't we all, but I am truly fascinated with this micro universe in the soil. "All those 'science' clips you get on YouTube... they are more for the freaks." Information is everywhere and when a person is looking for direction, information is where to start, verifying the info is second. Multiple sources has always worked for me. I know not everything you hear is factual and sometimes not relevant, or even applicable, but I try to learn from others' experience and discoveries, mistakes and successes, the dynamics of most scenarios are so interchangeable, so I understand to take most advice with some salt. As always, your inputs are appreciated. Happy Growing.

Other option is heat to keep humidity low.. but heat costs more as ventilation ^^ I use mirrors during the day time to get light into the tent, worked well but ^^ shattered the big one. Thinking on putting 2 on tri pods to bridge power outs, just for the Veg tent.. mother tent has 2 backup LED lights.. but worse and will not work anymore.. stage 6 is a bit my absolute limit right now.

Well ja. I have load shedding 24/7. Only a solar system to run from. It will take quite a bit of thinking to make my setup viable, if at all. Things like fans will have to be selected with the utmost care. Easy peasy to make a wrong selection and double your consumption for the same flow. That said, I don't think you need 6 fesh air changes per minute at night time to control humidity. What about you can do a lot less on less on that side and only keep the box ventilation on? Jsut enough fresh air to keep humidty down? Is humidity your only issue at night time? Apart of course from temperature control?

That depends on the strain too. You get indications from the breeder when you buy seeds. Old School weed... GSC, WW, NL,AH,... hover around 18%.. indoor or outdoor. The indoor advantage is the creation of perfect conditions. Rain going down on a mid flower outdoor tree isn't helping. Reached 18.6% on a GSC indoor. The new strains on the market are more in the 25-30% range, some even go over 30... but that is lab condition grown weed... perfect/perfect

Ventilation in/out never stops.. so is a easy 24/7 calculation. You can reduce the ventilation inside the tent in your Veg tent... not recommended to do that in the flower tent. The Veg tent needs in general less ventilation.. helps to keep humidity high. Tent size... a full tent runs best.. so half a 2.4x2.4 will work but your 'side' plants will get less light as if all sections would run. Can also just start with a 2.4x1.2, is the same access if you would work inside a 2.4x2.4 but side reflection just helps. Light is important Growing indoor is a efficiency game. Also, the tent gets the climate from the room it stands in. Bring the room to the needed temperature and sort the tent over the ventilation. You will notice that as soon as the plants go into night mode, they exhale. Moisture goes up not just by the drop of temperature. Is in general the night times causing PM issues, so ventilation is super important to run all the time. Light phase it removes heat, dark phase it removes moisture. Bad ventilation kills all the fun... Will be a fun project to see what you can do and what is just to much for a heat pump. Would be cool if you could document it, i like tech shit and trust me... your setup will look very different once you got all dialed in. Right now.. with load shedding.. you will learn the hardest way possible.. keep that in mind too. Just read that Eskom wants to setup load shedding schedules up to Stage 16 now.. that means.. 24 hours dark at 16.. that would kill indoor growing once and for all. And a fun number.. for 2023 we had so far 2 days no load shedding at all. Not sure i prepare for worse or to leave.. leave would suck.. but stage 16 would bring monstrous issues. I think I fire up everything and build myself a stash till Eskom goes dark If they announce it, they know it will happen... would take it serious.

Just for interest sake, what potency is possible from a well grown outdoors plant?

Def not the problem with Ethos. We popped 15 of their beans the last few weeks and none had the problem we are having now with the singles from Trophy. The others were in breeder packs. These were in Trophy packaging so you have no idea what was put in there. But the wheel turns so no bad vibes. I just had to mention it..

Biggest threat is PM due to the fall of the FAE and no air circulation. Not light schedule. Natural outdoors RH goes up at night, naturally higher in tent too as they get their air from outside, no power to push air around or exchange the air is a WAY bigger concern than if the lights are on or not. This whole thread is a bit backwards. You can watch my threads bud, I grow indoors with loadshedding with no gennies no inverters none of that fancy stuff, cause I am one step ahead of the curve. there are ways to combat and navigate the high RH, but it's got nothing to do with your lights. and you gotta stop thinking you already know the answer.

Holy hahahah so you still don't understand that things that give off heat grouped together build up more heat than when those same things are spread further apart???? You're kidding me right? Yeah. I am sooooooo tense man, ooooh you tense me up reeeeeeeaaaall bad man, aaaaahh soo teense!!! hahahah The fact that I have a QB on a heat sink - which it needs to dissipate the heat - and the bar light that doesn't need a heat sink, cause it runs coolers is more than enough information I need to give you. you just gotta stop THINKING you know better and open yourself up to learning from those ahead of you, I'm reaching a long arm out trying to help you still after you giving me shitty attitude, you should thank your stars, but don't worry, as you grow through what you go through the truth will catch up to you. I never said you HAVE to build it this way, I just say theres a better desing than QB or PCB. If you don't already know this then you stuck in the past and reluctant to move forward, you went on to disagree with me and now I am trying to help you understand something that I have dealt with a really long time ago and you going off a hunch and have no experience in the field. I'm not about to let your emotions tell me I am wrong about something I can measure. It's clear you not ready for this big step of accepting information that might help you, sometimes letting go of what we used to know is scary, I get it man. Just get busy, build that light you speak of forget about anything I said, don't let new information stress you out. like mentioned before by a couple of us - you probably gona do a rebuild once the answers reveal themself to you. and we're all here to watch and support it all when it happens

Many things said here that agree with. Yes, I not going for a moon landing, but I do want to have a good chance to get the best plants I can in the shortest time. The climate is obviously important - and there I tried to get some direction on another thread - about if and how one can mitigate the problem of say running above 30 °C for some lenght of time. The suggestion to say that then you avoid growing in the hottest months, is practical at least. Perhaps not always the answer one wants, but practical. Growing indoors without Eskom is a huge challenge. That is already evident on this forum. The problem for many here is that they have made their setups in a time where load shedding was not such a big problem is. Now it is and it will not get better. With that in mind, it would be foolish not to put in an effort now to see how one can deal with it. Again. If I do not have much power at night, what should I do? Reduce the power to half the level and hope it works? Sounds like high change for poor results. Lights is THE major issue to get right. It makes the heat which in winter is good and in summer is bad. It makes the light. 5000K works better for veg and 3000k for flower. I have 25 years of experience with heat load calculations. This is by far the highest heat load from lights that I ever had to work with and I can tell you, from my perspective this will be an issue regardless of the application not only for a cannabis room. If I just buy the fist light, good or bad, then I still have no possibility for reconfiguration if I need to. With the light I want to design myself here, I very much want the flexibility. So, if I grow plants, it does not go well, I post pics and the problem is perhaps a common one with a solution - like changing the shape of the light, I want to be able to do that on the spot. If I buy a light with all the dimmer functions etc I am going to pay through my ears for it. A good light is at the very least R 20 per watt or more. I can build that myself however because I am well fluent with PCB design. For me to put in the circuitry needed to dim the light is not that big a deal. I will rather want to find out that I dont have to use it, than not having it and needed it. Lets say then I can have it done for R 7 per watt, power supply included and it ends up begin good. That will be a good deal if one wants to expand further. Right. Air changes. 6 air changes per minute is already something to work with. However, that probably does not mean 6 FRESH air changes per minute? Just recirculation I suppose? And then, when the new range of LEDS come, all I need to do is change a component and order a new batch. The rest will be sorted.

with weed... many ways lead to Rome. When you go to a certain level of detail, you come to the level where the strain even counts. Not all strains are exactly the same and need a little different treatment. PM is no real rocket science.. if you have a crap ventilation you will get PM (spores are simply EVERYWHERE and just wait for the right condition to bloom) or have the super ventilation that gets shut down in 4 hours blocks.. and turned into crappy ventilation. You see more as 68% humidity in your tent, PM is blooming and you can't do anything against it. Also want to point out.. resistance doesn't mean immune If you constantly have issues with PM... you have to put more thought into your ventilation setup.. and look for a backup for the ventilation when Eskom shuts you down. Normal flower tent get shut down for 4 hours and you don't open up the tent, you will have 99% humidity in that tent at the end of that power out. Spores will have gone into bloom... good ventilation just makes their life much harder. Bad ventilation and you will run into a serious PM issue, there are just limits you shouldn't pass at any time. If you get the idea to use filters... you face another challenge, PM spores are 1-3 micron in size. With you working inside the tent.. they will enter. Your ONLY chance is to keep humidity between 30-50% during flower. Germination the plants love and need over 80% humidity, Veg I keep em 60-80%. So yes, there is a high chance that you have PM starting to bloom during Veg.. conditions are just perfect... but Veg you can also unpack potent cleaners like Copper Soap. Spray all your plants top to pot when you put them in Flower and they are squeaky clean for the tent it matters. Your flower tent runs between 30-40%.. you will never have any PM issues... never... The Kushy Amino Acids I highly recommend any grower who as nothing similar. Dirt cheap and brings 10-20% more harvest and potency (tested) just by using it correctly.. wouldn't say helps with PM ^^ or didn't notice anything in that direction. All those 'science' clips you get on Youtube... they are more for the freaks. As a normal grower looking to grow his own stash, go to a grow shop and let the dude tell you what to do. Keep it simple, way easier to find the error. The moment you use 20 products instead of 4-6.. you have also a bigger range to debug your mistake. Honestly, keep it simple I use BioBizz Fish-Mix / Bloom, Kushy Amino Acids, Kelp Extract, Molasses (de-suphurized) and Fulvic/Humic Acids (BB Top Max, 5:2,.. check what your grow shop has) (6 products and rain water). As i grow biological in soil, i do not use any pH UPs or DOWNs. Keep it simple ^^ less debugging stress.

So the shock continues. Not only did 2 beans not pop the ones that did are sickly. This screwed up our germination rate. These Are such a bad representation of Ethos genetics.! Below some pics. Popped 5 of Tyrone's SSC's and al 5 germed in 3 days straight into FF Seed starter. R20 a bean. 2.5k down the drain. I must say that disappointment is running high. Below the SSC. Most of our genetics are Ethos and of the 20 popped the last few weeks these 5 from Trophy is a disgrace. On a more positive note. Below some Gorilla Glue #4, Mamosa, Velvet Underground,Boo Berry and Catalina Wine Mixer. Mamosa GG#4 Boo Berry CWM Velvet Undergrounnd (Monster)