Naughty.Psychonaut

@SuMi with different genetics you can't really compare them this way, there's just too much nutrients present for the individuals that are reacting like this. when using synthetic nutes it's recommended to start in inert medium, meaning something that has 0.0 nutrients. I am helping a friend grow, and it's taking him some time to get around the fact that each individual plant needs different things at different times. He grew a batch of 6 plants, 2 strains - 3 clones of each. Even in his situation where he had plants cloned from the same mother who all asked for different nutrients at different times... he regularly gives the plants the blame when there is something wrong, I go over and ask why there is one plant showing claws? He sais the plant has been doing that because it's crazy and it doesn't wana stop doing it then I tell him well if you gave less N it would stop doing it, no point in calling the plant crazy He was under the imression that they all get the exact same all the time... which is wrong and where big problems come from. It's just that with clones the uniformity is a bit easier to achieve than with mix genetics. if it's all different strains you gotta look at all the plants as individuals and not all one thing. this will lead to toxicities and deficiencies in synthetic grows and organic grows. I would also suggest, choose either synthetic or organic grow. the two don't mix well together. It's a trendy new thing, but in all reality, they shouldn't be mixed. Synthetic nutes kill microbes defeating the purpose of organic nutrients that need to be broken down by microbes. Organic and salt nutrients can very easily cause root damage because organic soil holds onto salt nutrients and can build up in soil much quicker than in a coco/hydro medium where you flush out old nutes almost everytime you water the build up doesn't happen as easily cause you giving just what the plant needs and it uses most of that salts, ans in organic soil it focuses not on the nutrients, but rather what the soil does with the nutrients. if you add salts to that you slow down that process. It's just not ideal. I agree with Prom, flush the pots don't worry about organic stuff now, afterward stick to the synthetic nutrients, treat it like a full hydro grow. I would suggest full organic in future

are they all clones from the same mom? if not, you can't expect same from each plant. you doing full synthetic or half synthetic half organic? I kinda don't know shit about synthetics lol but the canoeing on the one plant and the clawing on the other plant and as you said the light is at 25% and way high... all kinda suggests nutes then. what are the highest temps you get there? heat stress without light can also cause canoeing.

looks like you have the same problem I have however much nutes is present, it's too much. just go clean water couple times and back to normal after you see new shoots looking normal.

there is P and K in both the Grow and the Fish mix... why do you think they do that? they need it in all phases of plant life just smaller amounts at first. I understand the force feeding thing with some liquid organic inputs, but like I mentioned, they where lacking in all departments and the same way you give grow and focus on the sugar that keeps the microbes happy, I give P and K not only cause they looked like they needed it, but also to keep enzymes alive, because as we all know it takes a specific enzyme to break down specific compounds and they all need to be present to form a complete symbiosis. most plant enzymes are stimulated/activated strictly by K ions. phosphates are broken down by phosphatase. they all need to be present at all times to make the soil "alive". there's also elemental blend in the soil as mentioned before, which has to break down a bunch and slowly release nutrients over time. either way, I clearly overdid it here with the P and K, but I am sure had I not neglected all the plants for a month then try to make up for it by being heavy handed, maybe one feed less wouldn't have caused the roots to lock out N like is now. because of this, instead of dark green, the new growth turned bright yellow as seen in the photos, older growth stayed green turned a little darker. looking back the amount of P and K in the grow and fish mix might have been enough, anyway we live and we learn. thanks for the help and inputs!

lol why would you be thinking it's the 1ml of fish that made the P and K toxicity, I never said that only cause you asked what's half dose for me with fish cause you said you go 2ml, so I said I usually go 1ml normal dose. not that this is what the plants been getting. I am however now going to be giving them half fish working up to full dose. I don't follow the nutrient schedule as you can see my plants don't need too much nutes. I haven't given any bloom either since they still vegging. I mix my own soil from spent FF premium classic, I add elemental blend every time. This time I also added insect frass and kelp flakes. spent the whole of August away with work shit, tents shut down plants in the sun all under a 150w flood light till midnight. not the smartest thing to do in the middle of a grow when I got back ladies where not happy looking, so I jumped in cleaned them nicely and for about 4 waterings I gave them all 1ml of each Grow, Fish and Bloom. this is what I usually do when I see that kind of lacking. you can see my flower tent has responded well, they're also a bit dark green, so I've backed off there too, just clean water till normal grow then back to 1ml alternating. these plants are a bit younger and I am assuming the P and K in the 1ml Grow+Fish+Bloom mix was just a bit too much. ultimately, when mixing my own soil, I go for a -just add water- kinda soil. I only wana add nutes if I reeeaally have too. I don't want to depend on them.

I usually work on 1ml per liter, so half dose for me would be 0.5ml these ladies been on a bounce back from a P and K toxicity, so I have been giving just water for about 2 weeks, they starting to show N deficiency and I was notified a P and K toxicity can also show as N deficiency and to give Humic and Fulvic acids, I don't wana add any more P or K really so this is the reason for half dose Fish, working my way back up to full dose.

time for a little update here everything seems good in the flower tent, don't wana wait too long before flowering these girls. will see if I can't fit a different mother in the GDs place. already got 5 GDs vegging outside for a full run later. looks like the GD reveg is gona take too long.

little update here. Wednesday evening I mixed 3ml of each Humic and Fulvic Acid in 4L water. Gave each plant 500ml. haven't seen any crazy reaction which sets me at ease, but I think they're ready for a half dose of Fishmix, they look to be at a stand still for now. a little too late already with all the yellowing, but it's time to give the poor ladies some N.

oh yeah, that's some nice roots for only 2 weeks clone environment must be dialed in over there hows the smoke report on the ginger tea?

hahah nice, going for a sea of green thing or just making a bunch? all ginger tea or mix stuff?

hahah yeah too true man sometimes can really throw you off a product here's the Humic Acid - recommended dose is 3-5ml/L during seedling - veg https://www.greenhouston.co.za/products/humic-acid here's the Fulvic Acid - recommended dose 2ml/L for small plants, 5ml/L for large plants and 10ml/L for trees. https://www.greenhouston.co.za/products/fulvic-acid because of recommendations I feel Fulvic 3ml/L, what you think?

I see I see thanks for breaking it down for me! what dose and of which would you suggest I give? I'll apply and hopefully I will get to understanding the product better through use also hahah I got it free and only used it maybe once or twice, but always felt too uncertain to say I know what I am doing with it.

hahahah shit oh well whoever said it, it makes sense just note, the yellowing on new growth is not N deficiency. those are the beginning stages of excessive P and K symptoms. or what is it that indicated N deficiency? I could be missing something, but I feel the they gona ask for N soon, because I am not giving any since I am trying to lower overall EC from the excess of other stuff. mainly also the reason for not feeding more right now. I wouldn't be able to get it over my heart to feed them anything now knowing how much I fed them before they started looking like this. almost 100% sure there is no deficiency right now and also how I know it's excess. The first deficiency that will show will be N, cause there's a normal amount of it right now, but because I cannot feed just N I can't feed anything at all and risk even more P and K stress. so my only alternative is clean water till the excess symptoms are a little less then slowly half dose of Fish which is N focussed. and then taking it from there. I got both humic and fulvic acid laying around, but I feel there's not enough information out there for me to comfortably use it. Unless also just with the less is more approach. I have an understanding of the stuff but also only the limited amount information that's out there since these 2 things have not been fully studied yet. Just don't wana "add" more stuff when I am thinking about less is more and knowing very well I already over did it I just feel a step back right now is a step in the right direction.

duuude 100% organics is more about reading the plant than anything since there's already nutrients and stuff happening in the soil you're set with a given starting point, where as with hydro you start with basically nothing and follow a schedule from there. with organics you gotta know how to speak plant. I am using the Biobizz range and have been alternating between the Grow and Fish during veg. I see that the Grow has more P and K in it so I am thinking it was too much of that also the fact that they're in recycled soil and I had flowering plants in the soil last where I fed them with BioBloom, so my mind is telling me there's also some left over P and K. I also picked up on your pro tip you dropped recently on using more Fish during veg and when flower comes switching to the Grow together with Bloom. makes a bunch of sence to me since you also need the sugar from the molasses in the Grow more during flower than during veg. Either way the clean water for now, but I have a feeling they should be asking for some N real soon and I don't wana wait till that happens. So if they're not looking happy by the end of this week I'll introduce half dose of the Fish.

Well, stick a fork in her, she's done By the looks in the photo you can't really see the difference from day 4 to 5. Usually the seperation leaves less curd in the bottom of the jar and it all comes together at the top. I used high fat milk so I am sure that's the reason for the extra high amount of curd forming. The white on the bottom of the jar is just a film on the sides, the whole bottom half of the jar is LABserum. ready to use. popped her in the fridge this morning, will seperate it tonight and add about 300ml of the LABS to 10L AACT for aplication tomorrow. For the indoor ladies no nutrients so I have tap water bubbling to get the chlorine out so I can add BioCult with LABserum in it just for inoculation. no feed. The big 100L pots outside, soil is ALIVE not gona disturb the worms for a photo had the bin open for the fisrt time over this weekend after starting it about 3 weeks ago, everythings pumping 100% in the worm bin if no one knows how to make mozzarella from curd I'll be giving the curd to the worms aswell, for this round only. I love mozzarella and I am not passing up the opportunity again I'll get it right.

Small update here, GD finally showing signs of reveg. Letting the Cheese bush out and do their own thing in the meantime. I'll make sure the tent looks the way it needs to before flip. Maybe a drop or two too much N here for these ladies. GD reveg

looks like I am still too heavy handed with the nutes, been on clean water for over 2 weeks now all still not growing 100% gotta stop with my over feeding issue! Clear signs of excessive P and K. I really need to let the "less is more" thing still sink in!

Day 4 almost done

when buying DE it's important to get the expensive / food grade stuff as you only want the diatoms, but what most people seem to look over is that the powder you get is not the diatoms, that's just the carrier powder. that's why every second DE product looks slightly different in colour or texture and if you buy the cheapest stuff you putting talc powder and all sorts of other unwanted compounds in your soil. the product is much like mycos in the way that it needs a carrier, because diatoms are living micro organisms. they're phytoplankton. they live in bodies of water. like rivers, lakes, ocean and what not. they're extracted and kept dormant in a dried state for many many many years and they'll come back to life when introduced to water. much like algea, because as a whole, that's what phytoplankton are. your soil is not a body of water so they cannot thrive there and because they're microscopic once introduced to water or moisture they come to life again and because they're in some unfavourable habitat they quickly die off and get consumed by other microbes diatoms have bodies like cells and what makes up the outer layer of their bodies/cell wall is a pure silica compound with a sharded glass like texture, though this too gets broken down by other microbes. that's the silica release. when used as pest management it really only works when kept in the dry dormant state on your top soil where other microbes can't access it. they really only do any kinda harm to larvae. even very very soft bodied soil dwellers such as any kind of earthworm will be unphased by the diatoms. anything that can jump or fly just gona laugh at the diatoms. once you ontroduce water or any kinda moisture to the diatoms you wake them up and they basically immediately start dying off and consumed, cause they're not in their preferred habitat. if you can kill off any larvae in the top soil that's a big win already that's why I use it a lot, with most DE products you'll run into an overload of the physical powder used as a carrier creating negatively charged or dry pockets in your soil way before hitting a silica toxicity. obviously depending on the given silica content in the soil.

Day 3. a whole lot of activity. there was a bit of a spilt milk smell yesterday, nothing terrible, but what you would imagine it smells like where they milk the cows. a fresh dairy almost able to smell the bacteria in the air -kinda odour, but today it smells kinda nice.

seperation happening, curd forming

GD was moved to other tent, going for a monocrop here. cleaned up except the one still bouncing back from over feed - bottom right - opened up the rest just a little.

growing along, still gona veg for a while. took the Pineapple Chunk out, took her mulch layer off, leaving her outside in full sun to help her dry a bit quicker. replaced it with a Grape Diamond plant. she started flowering outside. had to cut her back for clones, put her under 18/6 to reveg. wish I planned to fill the tent with just one strain. one corner looking sad hahah

the trick with micro organisms in most cases is that they're most effective when there are colonies "fighting" it out between eachother. instead of having a dominant bacteria or enzyme. you don't want anything to dominate. that's where things go wrong. when researching microbes in a lab you don't just grow the microbes, you give them challenges almost like "torture test" them by having them grow amongst other microbes and see what it does. everytime the micro organism interacts with another one that's new information to be studied. 100% of the time when a dominant culture comes in contact with another culture it starts to produce some sort of metabolites. as humans we owe a ton of research to this, but what we know so far is that if left alone to dominate the culture will geographically define itself by consuming everything in its path untill it has to fruit or create a reproductive body. this is a problem. but if presented with challenges or other micro organisms it creates secondary metabolites in forms of exudates - not a challenge as in let it dry out and see if it lives, I mean challenges in forms of other micro organisms. the exudates from competing colonies of organisms, be it bacteria, fungi or even pathogens is what builds a healthy immune system in the soil. same way a vaccine works. this might seem counterintuitive, but the concept of "good" and "bad" exists as one in nature. we just kind a labled things how we see them to make it easier for us to understand certain other aspects of our own lives, but ask yourself, how is it possible to have 100% healthy mycelium in nature thriving where Trichoderma is ever present? It's because of balanced diversity. there are wars going on under the soil between the micro organisms competing for dominance and the dead soldiers are the exudates. they're also the reason for the health in the soil. there can be no life without death. the concept of micro organism in soil, in many ways, act a lot like food in a humans gut. in the sense that if you eat a bunch of the same thing over a long period of time, even if it's healthy and good for you, rather than it helping you it will begin to become a problem for you. your immune system goes to shit if you don't keep the stuff in your gut diverse. you don't need to really understand the science behind it to understand that part. in the same sense that soil does not benefit from having a butt load of the same stuff or any of the beneficial stuff just because it's beneficial... you kinda have to get the balance right and understand the way these colonies function and what they're actually doing. they don't know what you expect of them, so you kinda have to know the only thing they trying to do is thrive. and even if it's a beneficial fungi/bacteria you don't want it to thrive, so you have to keep adding other bacteria and enzymes that all wana thrive aswell and give the "dominant" culture a run for it's money. they "fight it out" by trying to cover as much area space possible and where they cross paths or come to a stand off they battle it out and this creates the secondary metabolites, exudates and all the trace minerals. people tend to think all micro organisms act like fungal networks, where with fungal networks you want a dominant culture. but with enzymes and bacteria you want diverse cultures. and then the most important part will be moderation. seeing as this is my second SST I ever made I will hold off on the SST for about 6 months and when I do it again I'll be sure to use all different seeds than I used this time. that's the key. In the meantime I'll be doing different ferments and going for different things each time. not gona keep making the same FPJ or FFJ's have to use different stuff each time and as it's much higher in minerals I'll be using it intermittently at rates of 1 to 5ml / L of water. I am still new to all this so I hope I won't be eating my words any time soon though I got a better understanding of mycology than soil science, I am trying to tie two ends together which can cause more confusion cause not everything translates directly, but the two things can also be looked at as one whole and it's not like I am trying to do something new here. this way of gardening has been on going for the longest time. thousands of years. we're more advanced now in 2022, I hope to understand it all one day, but the learning never stops. never wana reach a point where I try to claim I know it all because that's when we stop learning anything new.

Thanks man, I definitly needed to hear that hahah this stuff is so cheap and easy I can really see myself getting carried away with it I have heard quite a bunch of people say I can over do it with the SST and just to be carefull with any of the teas and ferments. I made this batch to inoculate the cooking soil, but I know it's gona be way too much, so I'll be giving some to the whole garden. this will be the second time I ever made SST, with the first time being 2 weeks ago. I'll let a couple months go by before making it again and hope to gain more knowledge on it in this time. I put the pulp in my worm tower, so they can turn it into casting before I am gona use it. after this I'll be collecting IMO and leaf mold to make some FPJ from the new growth on the local flora. it's spring so loads of auxin hormones around. wana make some FFJ for my ladies going into flower. going down the korean natural farming rabbit hole, but some of those things can be quite complicated and if not done right can cause more harm than good, but getting to know it and understanding it better will bring a more sustainable way of gardening. so I feel it's quite a good rabbit hole to go down. I heard I guy say enzymes are like millions of different kinds of keys to millions of different kinds of locks and the locks are the trace minerals and micronutrients. it's always easy to guess the macro nutrients and say "I need N or P or K" but how do you know when and what of any of the other elements it is, or could be? So when adding enzymes, it's pointless to add a whole bunch of one specific kind of enzyme that only does one thing, you need to add the whole group of enzymes, the more diverse the better. which makes the most sense to me. Instead of adding a lot of one thing, rather add smaller amounts of a wider variety of things. This is what I'll be going for.