Naughty.Psychonaut

@CreX I'm gona take a step back, to let you cool off. Infact I'll take many steps back, cz this clearly has two right answers.

I think your experience is giving you a little confirmation bias. You're not angry or emotional at me, it's the information that doesn't sit well with your seasoned experience, because I was just repeating the information given based on the study.  

contradicting myself is a little rich coming from you since you been saying the whole time that doing less and using less resources is a waste of time and money  

c'mon man, I am not trying to offend you. but for real.... I use biobizz, when I have 10 plants in full flower, 4 in 20L pots get getting 2L every 2 days, and 6 plants in 60L pots outdoor that gets 3L every day. over a week of 7 days that's 150L of water every week. right? Giving biobizz bloom nute in late flower 4ml/L = 600ml of biobizz bloom every week. doing that for 2 weeks when I could have saved 1.2L of fucking biobizz bloom? how do you know what financial state I am in that that should be negligible??? are you kidding me? you're just gona randomly assuming EVERYONE has money to waste? and you know the bigger the scale operation the bigger the waste. soooooo?????

I might be OK in that regard, because I am small scale with an allright cashflow, but the one thing I don't have to waste is time. I am not even doing everything I wana do and I don't have time to waste, don't know bout you.?

bro.... not trying to be funny, but what's up? you can't be this offended by this topic alone? 

where are my priorities? fuuuuck me, have you smoked my weed? don't think you wana cause you'd probably not like it cause I flush mine  

I reuse my soil and sometimes the ppm in the medium is still too high for seedlings or small cuttings after two weeks of clean water. where is this wasting that I am doing? I actually have to add perlite and peat to the rich medium to reduce the organic matter for younger plants and keep them in seperate small pots. you make it sound like I am throwing nutes away when actually I am just not giving any more...  

5 minutes ago, CreX said:

Dude - the video you posted straight up abolishes the necessity of flushing, and then he sums up a few lame time saving tips and minor nute saving tips. of which the time saved and nutes saved over the period of 5 years would still be negligible. the okes with all the equipment and advanced tech and money pretty much pointed out with great detail how little a difference it makes to the final product... in other words, its total bro science that it makes any difference.

seeing as i reuse my medium, the "waste" would just go into the next cycle for the next set of plants to uptake. i also need to feed my plants very regularly, regardless of phase of veg or flower, so i would just not be saving any time on that watering front.

 

no, this is not what i am saying at all - a plant fading because its hungry, vs a plant fading due to it reaching the end of its biological clock are completely different.

i feed my plants right up until harvest day for the reason i mentioned above, as well as because the plants i grow fade by themselves giving me a really good idea for when they are ready - some plants take a much longer time to naturally fade than others.
Consider outdoor plants and how they flower and then fade - how would you explain that then? because most outdoor plants get plain water the whole way through its life... 

Not arguing... well i am a little bit... but im just trying to elaborate on my experience without flushing and the success i have had, and am just trying to get the point across that flushing is absolutely unnecessary for a great yeild, and the factors around harsh smoke black ash and taste is largely dependent on the way the herb is cured

brother brother brother, take a step back real quick. 

if flushing doesn't change anything this clearly means keeping feeding doesn't change anything either. you get that right? knife cuts both ways right? look at the other side of it.

so, if keeping giving nutes doesn't improve on anything, why give it? it's a total waste of money and time and not bro science at all. actually it's simple general 1+1=2 type stuff.

there is no debate, mate. 

20 minutes ago, Weskush said:

 

this a mid grow flush in synthetic situation for adjusting ppm, so depending on given ppm it could be justified, but eh. not really what we're discussing here. or am I only listening with one ear again?

32 minutes ago, CreX said:

the proof is in the pudding! 

yes, exactly the proof is in the pudding!!!

in the pursuit of truth, when you're calling someones work and actual science people have done in labs with machines and advanced technologies that cost lots of money and time a "100% bro science" just means you looking for an argument, which I believe you are not doing? 

here's some of that pudding you where talking about 

https://rxgt.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/FlushingTimes_TrialReport.pdf 

sooooo, on the point of what is more wasteful... 

46 minutes ago, CreX said:

so the plant can naturally fade while it finishes up

with this statement it is safe to say you agree that plants naturally stop using nutes towards the end, right? 

so help me understand how it is a waste when you're saving on nutrients because you don't have to give them because the plant doesn't want more AND you don't have to mix them? 

then you also say, not having to mix nutrients is both a waste of nutrients and a waste of time, even though you're doing less. I would like to understand that a bit better aswell.

I think the concept of "flushing" kicks it's heels in by "flushing toxicities out". In the video about the study the guy is clearly differentiating between flushing toxicities and flushing at the end of the plants life. 

the confusion here is, because flushing at the end of the plants life does not mean pouring 20L of clean water through the medium like you would when you wana reduce ppm. reason - when you flush toxicity you're aiming for a specific desired ppm, so what ppm you aiming for when flushing at the end of its life? I hope no one is saying 0000 ppm, or even 0005ppm for that matter or even 0010ppm or 0050ppm, because that would be silly. that would cause deficiencies for sure, even within the first 24hrs of sitting in too low ppm. this type of flushing would make even less sense in a organic situation, because organic growers re-use their soils, why the poop-on-my-face would anyone wana even try flush organic soil down to 0000ppm. besides the point, hydro and organic, the plant will stress.

the aim is not 0000ppm on the first day of flush, the aim is to slowly reduce the overall ppm towards the day of harvest by not giving anymore nutes and sticking to just clean water. no nutes whatsoever, but also the amount of water is just enough to give a teetsy bit of runoff. to reduce ppm to get it to be as little as possible on harvest day. what is in the plant and medium is enough for the plant to ride it out till when she's ready to chop. 

lets think alternatively. toxicity flushing - pouring 20L of clean water through the medium every day and in the study say they did up to 14 days. imagine for 2 weeks doing that every day? that would probably do more damage than good and I hope no one has been doing this. a saturated 0000ppm medium is just asking for root rot and with fully developed buds and constantly soaked pots could probably end up with super high RH in the buds risking suuuuper wet harvest, PM right before harvest, bud rot and all that fancy jazz.

in the case of the study it's a good example to show that generally when people speak about flushing before harvest it's a complete different process than flushing toxicitties out. when people state "these ladies are getting their last feed" typically from then till harvest day is the "flush before harvest" people speak of because then they only getting water and the plants are making due with whats left in it and the media, with the two keys being - don't harvest the day after you feed, because the plant will have compounds in it still needs to break down and this may cause harsh smoke, and the second one, wait till the plants are turning yellow indicating the advancing breakdown of chlorophyll, again reducing the harshness of the smoke...

you can draw your on conclusions from that, but for me that only means one thing. 

if you not aiming to harvest when the plant is ripe - continuing a plant that finished its flowering cycle will make the buds go airy till they start dying back and the plant starts pushing foxtails wanting to reveg. 

aiming to harvest around harvest time when the buds are ready you should be allowing the plant to do what it naturally does - stop feeding it about a week before you harvest. what's the point in pushing the plant in any way shape or form if it doesn't increase anything in any way shape or form? 

you're literally just risking ending up with harsher smoke. 

11 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

This topic again lol.

Cant agree more with this statement. I have not watched the video. However, all the plants reserves are supposed to used up somewhat by the time of harvest. This ensure the best cure. Then smooth smoke. 

Chlorophyll is the green pigment, we know chlorophyll is not just nitrogen, its many many other elements and compounds. So, in my mind flushing is quite necessary with nutes. This is just to get the plant to use up all reserves. (FLUSHING in my mind is just watering on a normal schedule)

Some say its not necessary, which is fine, people are allowed to have their own opinion. BUT logically, if not flushing. You gotta really be super scientific in your dosing approach and understanding what the plant is using out of that nutrient to finish with a smooth smoke.  

Maybe they feeding such an insignificant amount towards the end that it really doesn't effect anything negatively. Also a possibility. 

Boom! Hitting the nail on the head

for centuries the smartest minds that dwelled the earth thought the earth was flat, still till today in 2022 we have people with their own opinions on the matter, because all measurable science is just "out to hurt their feelings" or something along those lines.

3 minutes ago, Weskush said:

Flush or no flush. Drying/Curing method is a way stronger determining factor in harshness of the smoke. 

 OK, I get what you're saying, but wasn't the discussion about the difference flushing and not flushing??? In this discussion I don't really care what causes more or less harshness over all. we where talking about flushing and not flushing and that happened to be one of the points made. 

if we wana discuss all that can be done around harvest time to reduce harshness, that's a whole different discussion my guy, of which flushing will also be a part of again.

7 minutes ago, Weskush said:

Living soil no container grows, no flush obviously. 

with living soil you also don't need to feed nutes to the plant all the time, only when the plant is hungry, most of the time you're giving clean water. the plant itself, when it comes to the end of its cycle it will naturally take in less and less of certain compounds. if you're still giving nutes at that time, again you're wasting and you're force feeding the plant and it'll probably just go through to the next season. when the plant is finished creating buds for it's 8-16 week flower period, it won't put on more weight it wont get stronger it wont get less harsh (don't know how that's even a point in this argument) it wont do anything for you, except waste your time and money. again.

no flush till harvest - more chlorophyll to break down during curing.

flush before harvest - less chlorophyll to break down during curing. 

more chlorophyll in buds - harsher smoke

less chlorophyll in buds  - smoother smoke

ease pease, bra

@Weskush 

this topic used to have many different opinions, but there are also a bunch of facts coming to light. did you watch the video? there is quantified scientific merit to their study with tests done by chemical analysis machines. opinions on the topic is becoming less and less relevant. 

what you asked - it's easy - you been doing this for a while, take a bud with loads of chlorophyll in it and smoke it and compare it to smoking a bud with less or almost no cholorophyll. which one do you think will be harsher? do you really need a study to tell you what that outcome will be....? it's quite simple actually.

there was a smoke report in the video? did you watch the video? it comes down to the difference in yield quantity and quality if you keep feeding till harvest. and the answer was - no difference.

I guess a more extensive study could be done on a few different strains, but to me that bit of information already gives me the answer - it's beneficial to flush. 

I can't understand it for other people and I won't try to debate it, because in my mind there is no debate. it basically comes down to time and money you'll be wasting if you keep feeding. nothing else much to it.  

✌

4 hours ago, SAgrower said:

I have been reading a lot lately of people abroad, and locally, that says flushing is bro science and it apparently doesn't make any difference. How true this really is Im not sure.

what's good friends  

I believe there are benefits to flushing and it's not bro science at all. 

I am giving the benefit of the doubt to the debate thinking the counter argument is that if some guy wanted to keep feeding nutrients a week before harvest that someone should tell him there is no point as it doesn't increase yield, terpene, thc or anything and he should save his time, money and resources. - then yeah I get it... but I have seen a lot of people tripping up over people who want to flush, like they should be feeding till harvest day. that argument I don't understand...

here is a video discussing a study done on this subject, the video also has a link to the source in the description...

5 hours ago, Slartibarfast said:

 

Hi! I have 2 auto plants that have a decent coverage amber + cloudy trichomes. I recently watered with nutrients on Saturday but now want to flush and harvest on Friday.

 

Are there any suggestions to stop the trichomes maturing furher while I flush and wait for Friday? Since I do not want them maturing too much further. I was thinking of flushing with FloraKleen this evening.

 

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

I was gona suggest out the whole plant in the freezer hahah nah man I think there is no slowing down maturing trichomes man, especially with autos those things just move to finish up asap

c'mon clone gods!!!! 

had 4 Frosted Apricot cuts in rockwool since 07/01, still no root they went in along with 12 other cuts of mixed stuff that all rooted and got potted on 21/01. so I still have some confidence, but yeah just keeping the hopes high both of us

17 hours ago, Righteoussower said:

Almost third week of switching to 12/12.

hey bud, hope you are well.

so you're on 12/12, when the tent is dark inside there are no light leaks or plugs with lights on them inside the tent? 12hrs dark needs to be completely dark. like black out dark. 

even if so, you wont be seeing buds for a while still. if you want to catch those very very first signs of flowers you have to get real close and take a look at the nodes. you'll see something called pistils. these are your first signs of flowers, but it will be quite a while still before buds start forming. 

if you have everything in check and on point, a thing to consider, longer flower cycles indicate Sativa growth charactaristics and some strains can still 'veg' or 'pre-flower stretch' after you switched light cycle for up to 6 weeks before first pistils. very few strains do this, but it's not impossible. 

I throw a few photos up so you know what to look for

most people still ask around 150

fuuuuuugg mate  

that's something you don't see everyday, though it's really something that can happen to the best of us!

I've seen this with many other plants, first time for me seeing a big cannabis plant going through it. a good 6 times out of 10, I pop the plant out the pot and open up the roots to find some off smell or discolouration on the roots indicating fungal infection, if it's a fungus that need negatively affect the host in order for it to thrive we call it a parasite. 

it's hard to say if this happened because of poor root zone activity or mismanagement of root zone. only the grower himself will know if he over watered that plant, that could be the case. if he got poor dranage in the pot that might be the case, if you got anaerobic soil that'll create favourable conditions for any unwanted fungal spores to take host. 

the other 4 times out of 10 there is no signs at the roots, so we cut away the infected areas, but it never semed to work as the parasite has already entered the plant somwhere. sometimes it can even be through cut branches. it can even be through the leaves if there is a bunch of spores or particles present of some unwanted pathogen, if the condition is right they'll do their thing.

I would say, try cut away infected areas, then get a systemic fungicide that gets taken up by the roots. be carefull not to over water, rather give less water over longer time so the medium doesn't ever stay wet for too long. long periods of excessive moisture will put him back in square 1. 

2 hours ago, CreX said:

LOL I hear you man!! I have only met one dealer who lived up to the expectation of what R250 weed is in the minds of most...

the rest have shocked me with what goes for 150!!

thank goodness we switched years a go to home grown 

lol can you imagine buying a g for 150 then you smoke 2 small joints and klaar that's some bullshit if I ever came across any!! 

growing really does spoil a person  

29 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

Sounds like a new dealer that got a bit excited at how much people were willing to pay for bud 

hahahaha yeah I also thought the guy to be a noob, but his business is actually booming right now because of him. I got to know the guy in 2002, I was very very young, but I knew what the people where doing there. FFW to 2007/8 I knew where to go to find weed without having to deal with dodgy inner city characters. coincidently found the same guy after going to the same area a couple times. brought up something I remembered from when I was there in 2002, he remembered me and the people who I was there with  struck up a really good connection with this Rasta. I became a peice of furnature in their house, going there to spend hours sitting and smoking and once had a snoek supper with the King and his family, felt super out of place but also very very welcoming! Turns out his family have been surviving for the past 3 generations off just selling weed. in 2012 he bough the first car ever owned by his family, pretty big deal for them at the time. now the dude has people driving cars doing deliveries for him. he has a couple taxis and he started a gardening and landscaping service on his own. the guy is pomping the $$$ these days. 

21 minutes ago, CreX said:

all i know is dont go buy your mary jane in the fancy parts of town because it comes with a fancy price

exactly why not to buy weed in CPT CBD. you'll be coughing up blood hearing those prices.... r200 for half a gram of poo  

22 minutes ago, Prom said:

150... who would today still pay 150 for a gram? Prices in my area for indoor hover around 65-80 rand a gram. Not sure will still be like that after April when Eskom goes 20.5% up in price again.

250 you can ask for a 75 micron indoor hash.. ^^ 150 will for sure cover your cost when you run a small tent to grow your own weed. 65 and not that sure anymore, could be a even game.. depending with what quality material you work with.

Funny that somewhere prices went up the last 2 years... should have fallen rather then raise.. loads of people lost the fear to grow at home. ^^

you in blaauwberg? you must have really good network there bud, because I can easily find a 150/g bud there in your area. like real easy. 

if you're a grower it's another thing, because between me and my close friends we just give eachother weed. there is no way in hell someone, not even a strict dealer, will get me to pay even close to 150/g, because of the fact that I grow myself. It's harder to lie to someone about the value of something if they deal with it themself. 

but to say that people don't ask 150/g anymore is not accurate. 

you know about Natures Farmacy? they cater to the general public. anything below 150 is not worth time or money. most dealers ask most people around 150. it's just you that got the right stuff and right people around you to be lucky enough to get top shelf for that low price. and I am assuming it's top shelf because who still talks about mids? it's a network peronalised to you, not to the whole structure of cannabis selling. which is technically illegal still, so without any regulations you can't really say what the price "must" and "must not" be. 

32 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

Yes, then it should be a winner! I want to try their White widow from greenhouse seed co as well.  

oh yeah, I have heard great things about WW all around, should be something interesting! 

bit of nostalgia my first indoor bud I ever smoked was WW. paid R75/g in 2009, I was used to paying between R10 - R20 for some ditchweed and being completely satisfied so just the price of this stuff blew my mind-hole. Needless to say, the first smoke made me forget the amount it cost. a few months passed and I wanted to treat myself again, same guy still with WW like some WW wave hit western cape, this time the bud was straight R100/g. naturally I was put off and decided not to do it as I was still in school at the time and it just seemed like a ridiculous amount to spend on weed. So I let the thought go. That same year for new years my friend and I where all set to have a good time and both still had some extra cash so we decided it's time... went to the weed guy.... R150/g now.... never seen such quick and drastic price fluctuations with weed, since then the prices have pretty much parked it at 150 average. range from R120 to R200. 

though we have all come across some lunatic trying to sell weed for R250/g they claim god himself grew with his own shit as fertilizer or something. to those guys we don't pay much attention though

49 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

Keen to see that blueberry hashplant by bodhi turn out! 

Same here got one in the flower room too, first time I'll see her expressions. Got the cut from Natie at Dagga Farmacy in Paarl. all his cuttings are selected phenos so it should be something worth while! 

aaaaand a quick little update here aswell, for the ouense  

So here we have some new stuff. not all, just some. they all got potted up right before their photo was taken, into my mix of recycled FF and 30% wormcastings, watered in with 0.5ml/L of biobizz grow as they look a little hungry  

new stuff - Super Cheeze by Positronics and French Macaron by THSeeds

regrow - Sugarcane Deluxe cutting from forum member , Frosted Apricot by Inhouse Genetics and Blueberry Hashplant by Bodhi Seeds 

I am going to be cooking that same recycled FF with some of Jamies elemental blend for the first time! He is cooking up a batch he sais so by next week I'll get to mixing and watering it in throug a big 100L pot I have, I'll let these plants become rootbound before thinking of using that soil. will also be doing runoff ppm tests. till the numbers look right. got about 14/15 maybe even 16 weeks till flower tent is ready so that's more that enough time 

Hey friends  

just a quick update here, the Sour Lemon OG and Banana Hammock got the chop! they have been hanging for about 6 days. the smell of the Sour Lemon OG is just crazy. kinda like cat piss but in a very good way  

Sour Lemon OG

Banana Hammock 

I took the time to empty the tent completely, did a whole deeep clean with peroxide, had the vacuum in there, took all the fans apart and blew all the motors clean of dust and wiped the rest of the fan with warm soapy water, after everything was clean I put all the equipment back in the tent except for the light, sprayed peroxide and put all the fans on aswell as the inline fan without any cover on to get some of that peroxide in the ducts aswell. closed the tent up for 30min, did a quick wipe down again and loaded the next batch. here they are 

Got here 3 x Deluxe Sugarcane, 1 x Blueberry Hashplant, 1 x Frosted Apricot

happy growing! 

@rdc420 don't delete the thread man, we're all excited to see how this goes as you can see how much attention you already got here! a bunch of us are very interested in this like Evan said, at the end of the day it's a grow dairy and no matter what we call the plant or what people want others to be calling the plant, I am still excited to see what you do with them!!

skip to 4:20  that's really just the biggest coincidence. 

this video is titled Hydro vs Bio debate, but they end up talking about what we're talking about. the two modern kings of cannabis chatting it up.. 

Arjans words, not mine, "Real Sativa, I am talking about 15/16 weeks. Not the ones you get in America" 

when the plant is big enough, think about cloning it, if it turns out to be some danky dank you can regrow it and those sure are some strong genetics

hopefully they send Tribaldy some free seeds to make up for the wait!!!

and then on top of saying he found a pure sativa, he says that there are auto traits in the plant.... 

cool....

1 hour ago, Ill_Evan said:

I let's give them the benefit of the doubt,

Ok, cool cool, I am down to give the benefit of the doubt. I should really only be as adamant about my argument if I have analytical proof. Right now I am going off a hunch based on general consensus. 

the part that gets me is this - If it has ruderalis in it,  it can't be pure Sativa. If it is 100% Sativa it has no Ruderalis in it.

I am just having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that these genetics are so rare and special, yet it's available for anyone online. something in my gut tells me this is all marketing hype. If I had a dog in the show I'd be putting in a few good words aswell. 

52 minutes ago, rdc420 said:

This is incorrect. Please read the Lebanese strain description above.

 

I did, I read nothing about the matter, they just say "semi-automatic tendencies". that sounds like gibberish. Again, If it has ruderalis in it,  it can't be pure Sativa. If it is 100% Sativa it has no Ruderalis in it. period. there is absolutely no data showing how a strain can be pure or semi auto. Also, the statement of 100% sativa is just a hot load of bullybeef anyway and I wont eat one bite of it. in fact this makes me more resistent to believe anything from that page. 

the ACE breeder clearly wants us to know where it was found and that he had to do extensive screening and searching for the pure Sativa. wana know why? because a little bit of background on cannabis will tell you that looking for pure Sativa/Indica/Ruderalis in any given gene pool right across the world is basically like looking for a needle in an ever expanding haystack, because things keep crossing with eachother and mutating. even the purest of the pure Sativas from a 100 years ago will have some Indica in it.

you guys know about plant plasticity? phytomorphology? geological influence? for years and years and years, literally thousands and thousands of years cannabis has been breeding with itself in nature, since the oldest record of cannabis use in 2700BC it has been one of the most sacred plants that have been moved around with human intervention and had to change and change and adapt and adapt through literall thousands of years, then along comes a human in 2022 and within his one lifetime he finds the pure thing everyones been looking for?

by saying "semi-auto" you mean other people growing autos all have "pure autos". 

what does that mean? pure Ruderalis?

I don't think anyone wants pure Ruderalis. 

all autos only carry a trait of Ruderalis crossed with other genetics. 

so technically, all "autos" are "semi-auto"