Naughty.Psychonaut

dude  

everything I said ties in together with itself, the plant isn't flowering sooner because of some genetic thing, it's conditional. how can you admit that you're repeating a rumour about plants taking longer inside and shorter outside, but then you go on to say that I am wrong for saying the plant is just flowering cause of conditions. you're contradicting yourself, that plant is just a normal plant reacting to its environment. 

14 hours ago, rdc420 said:

Wow you seem to know my garden/genetics/conditions much better than me. 

at least I didn't have to say it!!! look, I didn't try to hurt your feelings, but look at it logically - what the hell is a semi-auto even? either it is auto or not. do you know how autos are made?

I'll be nice, because I can see you haven't been around long, but really do some research before asking these things....

14 hours ago, rdc420 said:

Who else has outdoor plants that are flowering at the wrong time of year?

if you wana ask that to proove a point, at the very least you need to know there is valid information suppurting your side of the argument, but now that you threw that at me you gona have to indulge what I am about to throw at you. 

I, myself, had 3 different strains push flowers in November 2021. photoperiod plants I have grown indoors on previous runs. are they also now semi-auto, just cause they flowered early? no. so there you go for your first example. 

second - I am not gona waste peoples time by tagging them and having them come read through all this for nothing. So I will copy the link to a few threads, you can look through them, each will contain examples of people who had early flowers this year. From there it's on you to do your own research, because to you what should be most important is finding out the truth and not trying to sound cool.

First - Photoperiod flowers in November 2021

Second - Photoperiod flowers December 2021

Third - Photoperiod flowers December 2021

Fourth - he grows a lot of plants, I am sure these are different ones, all flowering 

Fith - our guy Dave also grows a lot of plants, some of them true autos, but likely a bunch of photoperiods aswell

Anyway, it's likely that there are a bunch more, but I am not going to bother with more threads. The whole forum is open for your browsing and you don't even have to research that far back as it is all based on recent events. Besides just the forum, in real life I know quite a few growers, we all had plants outdoors going into flower. one big time grower I know pushing his second outdoor harvest for the year. same like Bos in his one thread. 

to conclude, what do I believe is more likely - that you have something soooo rare and special that minimal people even know it exists, or that you're just having the same outdoor experience as the rest of us? 

I believe the latter.

Those plants are flowering, because of the same reason everyones outdoor cannabis is flowering at some random time this year. 

The only information on Sativas taking longer to finish indoors than outdoors, that I could find, was that you can veg for as long as you want indoors as you control the light cycle and push it for longer than the plant would naturally outdoors following the seasons. I do however find more information supporting the stating that the more Sativa leaning the genes, the longer the plant will take to finish. I guess that statment comes from the fact that there are lists of traits that seperate and define the genetics and this happens to fall under what represents a part of a Sativa genetic. Then there's also a lot of reference to the idea that the more environmental fluctuations the longer any given plant will take to finish. Not only cannabis. What that means is that, because we control the environment when growing indoors (again, any plant) there should be less hiccups/hurdles that would cause the plant to finish earlier. No cloudy days, minimal obstructions throwing shade, minimal external factors that can cause stress such as heavy winds, extreme high/low RH, hot/dry winds suffocating the leaves, long perdiods of rain with high RH. All these things that are ever present when growing outdoors and cannot be controled will play part in extending the time the plant takes to finish.

yeah I guess then make fire under them, keep reaching out and make the situation public as it is your right to do so and tag them, hopefully they have common sense. hope you don't get swindled!!

you can keep the plants in veg outdoors, put floodlights up. I see this is slowly starting to become the new norm for outdoor growers everywhere. 

I was also gona ask about the bark...

The reason they're flowering now is beause the biodynamics, seasons and lunar cycle all being out of whack making plants do crazy things. Outdoor plants are heavily influenced by seasonal conditions and what we a humans call "seasons" have moved on, but the weather and conditions haven't changed as such, you can track this by keeping track of daylight hours in you area aswell as weather conditions. all these changes took place over the last few years, yet the moon still does what it always did, the calendar does what it always did, we call each month by it's name like we always did, but conditions change. the plant doesn't know what month it is, it just responds to conditions. so we can't expect plants to be growing like they should in January, just because it's January. that concept is a thing of the past.

got a buddy in Stellenbosch pushing his second outdoor batch for the outdoor season. he took clones out Aug 2021 and finished them in Dec, put a new batch out in late Dec and will be finishing up next month. nothing extra, he's on a farm and his plants are dead on out in the open getting as much sun as possible. all photoperiods of different strains. all deep in flower. 

1 hour ago, rdc420 said:

Sativas can finish faster outdoors.

this is very new to me, never heard this before... I will be researching this. 

3 weeks ago was 27 Dec. is that the time you placed the order? ordering anythiny anywhere online during this time of year can be a headache. did the website not say "orders for 2021 closed till January 2022" - that's usually the case with businesses that do deliveries - note that it could just be because they're only starting fall back into work this week? B&B has good rep, the time of year I think is the problem.

I am waiting on shit I ordered in mid December, got nothing to do with cannabis, some clothes and other stuff been tracking my package online, it hasn't even left the warehouse, yet.

sjew!! fokken naaaas, boet! 

22 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

if time is not a big issue you can go crazy with this

I know my first issue was time. From growing one or two plants outdoor for a couple years I realised having one harvest each year of around 400g of midgrade was not satisfying my needs. 

got my first setup couple years ago, went into harvesting around 300-350g of higher grade stuff twice a year... seemed to be enough for like 2 years. had a few fluctuations still getting to know the ropes, ran out of weed many times, wasn't a big decision to get a second tent cause I always wanted to grow more than I could smoke. started growing more outdoor again, but focusing on indoor and as soon as the space, money and time was right I got the second setup for a perpetual grow and get 4 cycles a year. one harvest was just under 400g, but they're mostly in the area of 350g which I am happy with, but quality can always go up so constantly looking for that new new lol. 

finally not running out anymore, my biggest issue - solved  

2 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

By that time the plant is growing vigorously so there is less of a chance of stunting the plant out from stress. Before this point the plant is focusing more on developing roots and sometimes it appears as though the seedling has stunted, then all of a sudden there is easily observed daily growth. It is at this point that topping is a great idea because you know you have the roots geared to pump your plant into its next stage of growth. 

that's a good point, I once heard a guy saying "the amount of the plant you take away matters", so if you had a 2month vegging plant and it's growing vigorously and you cut half or more than half the biomass it will also stunt the plant for a week or so. I think what adds to the reason why it stunts the plant so much when topping at such a young age might be because the part you're taking away is like half the plants biomass. 

same with vice versa, when the plant is big and you just top a single node it almost doesn't seem to stunt the plant at all, the less you take away the less it stresses them.

4 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

@Righteoussower if you're tempted to truly go down this path of mainlining/manifolding (advanced topping) then I would recommend that you start with just 8 main stems and get used to growing and training a plant to obtain that kinda shape.

What you want is to first obtain this kind of shape, this is a plant I did early on when I first got into growing:

 

You obtain this by first letting your seedling get like a solid 5/6 nodes above the cotyledons. You will then top above the third node from the bottom and you will end up with something like this:

 

You will then train the branches to grow flat horizontally using ties, preferably soft ties so you don't cut into the branches. You will grow these branches until they each have grown 4 nodes. You will then top each branch after the third node again, and also remove the 2nd pair of branches each. You will only keep the first and third nodes of each branch. This is because the 1st and 3rd nodes will grow horizontally and not vertically like the 2nd note. 

 

 

Then you just keep training until you get something like the first picture above. Then from there you can decide when to flip. You will then end up with something like this:

 

You can literally take this technique and shape your plant however you want. Extreme versions are like what @Naughty.Psychonaut has posted above. There are guys who can fill entire rooms doing this with only a few plants. Just know that it will take much longer to veg your plant to first obtain the shape, and then you will need to really ace your flower period. You don't want to put all that time into growing such a complex structure only for thrips or a deficiency to just chop you at the knees, so go into it with confidence. 

Good luck Padawan. 

Extra sauce

hell yeah, that's the hot shit right there! if time is not a big issue you can go crazy with this

Yeah I have been using a lot of the kushmans chiropractics lately aswell, works well.

21 minutes ago, Marzcanna said:

Topping should only occur when theres 5/6 nodes. 

if you don't mind me asking, is this just to reduce recovery time or would you say it's a do or die thing? 

if it's a matter of space sometimes you have to top low and I have topped right when the first set of 3 finger leaves show with no problem at all, they just take a few days longer to recover. you can make a bonsai out of a cannabis plant and top and train it however you like. 

our guy, righteoussower here has one plant in a huge open tent, he got space for days and don't have to shove a bunch of plants in next to eachother, so he can open that girl up and make her do all kinds of things in there to fill the space. kinda look at a big cannabis plant as a bonsai in a big pot that you never have to root trim. make a whole 1000 top sites off one stem. the lower he goes with that girl the wider he can make her and the more side shoots the more surface area covered when opened up.

Holy shit!

as for a diagram on where to top, I think first what you need to do is get some side branches by opening up the top of the plant. 

once your side branches shooting up wards, top every single on of them. like don't even leave one top sight unplucked. if the plant makes too many shoots you can clean the undercanopy by cutting away whats's too dense and not reaching top. but rather have too many top sights than too little. when it is too late you can't add any more tops, but you can always cut some away. and when you cut some away, you got cloning stock. win win

9 minutes ago, Righteoussower said:

Thanks very much for the advice. It is well appreciated. I just want shitloads of buds bro... I don’t care how. Lol... Is it possible for you to send a marked picture of where and what I can top, like Evan did previous....Thanks again!!!


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only a pleasure bro beans, that's what we all going for!  

I think you might be going for this ....

look closely, this is just one plant... this is a guy on youtube, Mr.Canuk, completely blowing the whole game out the water. a beginner shouldn't expect results like this, but it can be something a beginner works towards. 

just to show you what can be done with a cannabis plant. cannabis plants are some of the most vetsatile plants out there, if they're healthy and growing along nicely you can bend, snap, twist, top and do whatever you want to them and they'll just bounce back and keep growing. whole mature plants can be harvested down to 1/4 of the biomass with just a few branches left over and be sent back into reveg. you can keep them in veg for however long you want as long as you maintain its health. 

2 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

The spirits leaving the seedlings. 

must be

the auto/photo thing goes out the window when the whole undiluted nute thing came up as this is something you can do with neither of the two types of plants.

I hope your friend is buying you some new seeds?? concidering you didn't tell him to give undiluted nutes, hopefully. so he needs to caugh it up. daaaaamn!!!

lol bro it's kinda obvious then that the seedlings wouldn't make it. sorry I just jumped into advice giving mode when I saw you lost the seedlings I thought it was to your own volition. 

yeah, don't feed undiluted nutes. on anything else that went down I can't be giving advice at all.

about the humiduty, what is this foggyness in the photo here, just some smoke then or something? 

oh well, whatever it was, you seem to know what you should and shouldn't be doing and that everything would've went down A-OK if it wasn't for the undiluted nutes.

you getting great advice here brother 

just a  from me, topping is a thing of preference. as long as you not cutting the very first apical bud above the cotyledon leaves - although you can do this, it will stunt the plant quite a bit - you'll be fine. 

either way, it is all about structure, space, what shape and how many top sights you wana create. also what time you got. in theory, as long as you don't cut below the first set of true leaves you can top whenever and whereever you like. except in flower it will just be a waste. 

I see you got one plant in a huge space there. if you got time you could literally top every single apical node there and end up with a table top canopy with a whoooole lot of tops. your limit is the walls of the tent. 

I always grow multiple different strains all at once so I can't expect a level canopy for shit, but what I do to help me is top every single dominant shoot and give the rest time to catch up. so I don't have a given time when to top. I top something somewhere every day. either top them or if the plant is already too dense in that area I soften the cambium and let the top lay in recovery for a day or two while the other tops catch up. 

15 hours ago, Righteoussower said:

All seedlings did not make it. Except for the gorilla glue. A true gorilla. Should I top yet?


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faqme bru you lost seedlings you already popped? usually it's with the seed pop most people have trouble with and from there it just gets easier. 

can we have photos of how they looked when you discovered they where dead? this will be a tell tale to what went wrong as with seeslings there can really only be a few things that went wrong...

important question here - you growing autos or photoperiods?

if photoperiods I would advise to use smaller pots when popping seeds and don't saturate the medium. 

if autos, same pots, but don't saturate the medium. 

just going off photos you showed thusfar it looks like you got a 10L pot or bigger with a seedling in it and the medium looks completely saturated - this is already bad - then I see you still got a humidifier in there pushing the RH up and not allowing the pots to dry out even furthering the problem. 

chances of underwatering in your case is probably very slim. 

you say you just using buffered coco with tap water, so shouldn't be a PPM issue. and with the seedlings that young it shouldn't be a PH issue either unless you gave them straight acid. this doesn't mean you don't have to keep ph in check, especially for you growing in coco. 

I am leaning towards damping off the seedlings, too much water, but I really can't tell without more photos

monsanto has been in trouble from all sides surrounding their use of glyphosate. most FMCG crops that spray round up has heard the wrath from the public - no one wants round up around since many years ago. 

problem is they have the monopoly and they have the money to keep their names clean. they have been fighting the round up wars for many many years and they will always win.

long and short of it is monsanto is riding on the back of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics' stamp of approval, they gave the green light to monsanto to go spray. 

where the law was broken in this case, was not that they used glyphosate, instead it was because the FBN had no right to do what they did. if any given entity where trying to minimize dagga coming into their countries they can do so by patroling their borders, screening traffic and all that jazz. no country, not even the government has the right to cross borders into other countries and go spray poison on their crops.

8 hours ago, Chris Jay said:

Its sounds far fetched but lots of truth in there. I think the Spraying in Pondoland was more along the lines of no one gave a shit, an American company ( Monsanto)  tightly involved and funded by DEA/CIA were running out of places to use their Agent Orange, South Africa was ripe for the picking. It was the ass end of the "drug war" and South Africa was a little insignificant, even if you take into account the growing area and the amount of biomass that is exported. Spraying humans, animals and land with a cancer causing chemical should not be a problem. Throw in the "I LOVE DAGGA" sticker. 

"The South African Police Service’s National Air Wing spent more than three weeks spraying dagga plantations with a chemical called Kilo Max, in the greater Lusikisiki area.

Drugs have proven to be a very difficult plague to control, not only in South Africa, but throughout the world. These exercises literally nip the dagga problem in the bud. It goes without saying that the abuse of drugs leads to other more serious crimes such as rape, murder, attempted murder and robbery with aggravated circumstances. Therefore, it has become imperative that we must be extremely decisive in the steps we take to drastically minimize this scourge. 

In this operation, some unknown people have been distributing stickers with messages such as "I love dagga" and pamphlets stating that the methods we are using to destroy the dagga, are unsafe and detrimental to the environment.  This is not true. The dosage used is so minimal that it only kills the dagga plant. We have found that the natural vegetation surrounding the dagga plants survives the spraying. These people even went as far as inciting people to cause harm to our police officers."

"Dagga plantations have been sprayed in this area for over 20 years. In all this time, not one person has been reported to have suffered any form of illness as a result of the chemical used."

Source

This could be the case, but I have to say perhaps people like monsanto or who ever is behind all of it and who ever was paying them didn't give a shit, but saying no one gave a shit might not be so fair, because I think the gteater amount of people did give a shit. that's why they fought and got them to stop. The reason you gave and the quote from those sources all plays into all 1000 different angles of defence those guys will throw at you, so they can keep doing it and protect their bank or whatever agreements they have. when taken to court the platform for monsantos argument will be they did it, because cannabis is schedule 1 narcotic in some other parts of the world and they might be exporting it there. 

the situation about getting rid of the product or the argument about if it's carcinogenic or not is kind of irrelevant, but I am not surprised that if it was monsanto, or for that matter any branded company that wana push their product, will create a silly argument like that they can win in some way to distract a person from the real problem which is them killing the cannabis fields. monsanto has been in hot shit for many years about all kinds of crazy shit.

even if the shit they sprayed was a super nutrient for all other plants, and only killed the cannabis, the argument was that they didn't want them to kill their cannabis fields anymore and the focus was to get them to stop all together, not to spray a different product that's not carcinogenic but still kills the cannabis  

welcome 

yeah was just about to ask to share what you busy with right now ?? 

great help, support and motivation coming from this group. if you're not already, you'll be harvesting good amounts of dank genetics in no time.

4 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

What was the real goal? Or was it another simple financial repercussion of the war on drugs where they had a budget, a good salary and didn't question anything 

yebo - ecomonic power and status.

the ouens getting their salaries don't even know why they doing it, it was the task at hand and the sooner they can clock out to go spend that fat check the better. 

this root goes down deep deep deeeeep, back to the mexican revolution back in early 1900's and stems from the reason cannabis was made illegal in the first place. 

might sound like people are looking to the easiest and first most logical reason there can be, but more often than not people like to look at things and make them way more complex than they actually are just to try understand them, when taking things at face value will bring you closer to the truth. They did it "because they can" 

they, the people deploying the helicopters, will give you 1000 different reasons why they're doing it trying to justify their stance, when in reality it's very simple - in certain parts of the world the last glimmer for a source of economic stability needs to be chocked out to help maintain the pyramid structure our society is built on that benefits only the tippy top of the 1%

the reason people like Simon and the team that helped him got their wishes, was because the poison sprayers literally had no foot to stand on for what they where doing other than "cannabis is illegal in some parts of the world" and that was not a good enough reason, but really, going back to the reason why it was made illegal, was based on this very same economic power struggle. 

Sadly cannabis wasn't even the original target, but just caught in the crossfire. During the power struggle, it was hemp standing in their way and was the main cause of the power struggle.

Hemp was made illegal when the DuPont family, who created the nylon empire, merged with te Hurst Family, who started up the biggest Timber company at the time. They used their money and power to befriend a guy named Harry J. Anslinger, first ever leader of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics when it was created in 1930. Together they flooded the media with anti-hemp propaganda, and the only angle they had to make Hemp look bad was that HJA was a fucking racist and out to make profits and as he quickly saw there was more money to be made in nylon and timber, so the only way was to lie about it and create 2 different things and demonising the one. Hemp was known by the masses as it was the only textile/paper resource at the time, so how do you make that product look bad? you can't.... but what you can do is associate it with cannabis. Cannabis tinctures and extracts where used as a medicine, all medical books had information on it at the time and the substance had high cause for abuse as with any medicine. The mexican jazz culture was also creating quite a buzz at the time, and the habitual use of cannabis became synonymous with mexican jazz. They focussed on calling it something else like "crazy tobacco" and newspapers where flooded with stuff about "reefer madness" and how "marijuana makes black people rape their mothers and sisters and kill their brothers" and a whole bunch of other racist fucked up lies, then they supressed any further research on the matter so no one could find out if any of this was true or even possible. Within a few months global perspective has shifted and everyone was OK with it being made illegal and since then all Hemp/Cannabis crop fields has been sprayed with poison. No reason needed... basically just to protect a entity that fucks the whole world up the butt and sucks us dry of valuable resources cutting down forrests and shit. 

So I guess the oncommission in a sense is the fact that there are probably some government bodies benefitting off the massive monopoly timber and nylon companies have that exsist in their countries by not making way for the hemp industry to take off again, because poor countries will become stable and independent and that's no good for the 1%.

10 hours ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

Ummm, yeah baby

Should I take part

this is a no pro's contest hahah

bet we're all equally excited to see your photos man, you should defs take part

Hope you find something nice mr.Prom!