Duracell Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hi Guys, I have started my first grow on 28/06/2017 with feminised seeds from Nirvana: 2 x AK28 & 2 x White Rhino. The journey to get to that magical infusion of seed into grow starter started some months before with a LOT of research on the net. I found a site that is both extensive and very easy to navigate and use: www.growweedeasy.com So I will start with my setup so far. I had to empty an outside room to fit a grow tent into where no one ever goes. Available space was 2.6m x 2.6m. I started by installing an old 12000Btu split aircon (very good decision!). Tent: 1.2m x 2.4m x 2m - you can always grow fewer plants in a large tent, but lots of plants in a small tent is more problematic Light: 400W HID industrial fitting that has been stripped down and modified to hang with rope ratchets, MH for veg & HPS for flowering (R1100 for all). Operated on standard 24h plug tipe timer. Ventelation: 150mm Inline fan (not a centrifugal fan, but it copes for now with only one HID) from Luft fans with 10m flex ducting (delivered to my door for <R800). Carbon filter. DWC: 60 liter ADDIS container with small fountain water pump and dual outlet air pump. Taped the top of container with foil tape, but will probably paint the lids white in future because water tends to get under the tape. Other equipment: Cheapish TDS & PH pens, pruning scissors, measuring cups & spoons, Propagator Pro from Nirvana, PH up & down and nutrient powder from Hydro Herb. More about the setup and equipment as the story unfolds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 The real grow story begins with ordering the seeds on 24/05/2017 and the agonizingly long wait for it to arrive on 27/06/2017 Into the germination kit the seeds go on 28/06/2017. I have not yet devised a plan to keep this part of the process at a constant nice and comfy temperature, so because of cold conditions they took a while to peek out. On 05/07/2017 both AK48 and one White Rhino seedling were visible. And this is when impatience caused my first mistake - I went digging for the second White Rhino seed to see if it germinated and ended up damaging the pin root So, the first lesson would be to practice patience when working with cannababies 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zairek Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 I'm taking a front row seat here. Come on duracell entertain us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 On 08/07/2017 it was time to give the girls a bigger play pen so into the DWC they went. To make up for the germinated White Rhino seed that I murdered, I decided to plant a new WR seed directly in the DWC and hope that it catches up. Here follows the ingredients and readings as I went along: 30 liter tap water - 70ppm 20g GROW nutrients - 480ppm 30ml Proplant - 580ppm (got told to add this by a big hydro shop to help prevent root problems, but not so sure if it was good advice?) PH=7 15ml PH down - 680ppm PH=5.8 Light 90cm above lid. Yes, I now know that ODd the poor babies with nutrients but this is an ongoing suspense thriller. I set the AC in the room to 24 deg C, zipped up the tent and convinced myself that they would grow problem less forever after ALL HELL WAS ABOUT TO BREAK LOOSE! Notice the "clever " transparent 16mm PVC pipe sticking through the lid? It was meant to make reservoir changes easy using the pump in the container. BAD PLANNING - Massive light leak that would catch up to me quickly! Stay tuned for the next episode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 The next day (09/07/2017) I checked up to see where the temperatures and PH settled. Temp on lid - 31 C Water temp - 25.7 C (!!!!!!! in retrospect) Hum - 44% PH - 6.5 (big jump for one day from 5.8! I now think the Proplant may have contributed) Add 2.5ml PH down - PH=4.8 Decided to leave it there and see what happens. 11/07/2017 The new WR seed has sprouted in 3 days! PH up to 6.2 again! 12/07/2017 PH = 6.8 Temperatures still high. AK48 appears to have nutrient burn - 780ppm (and probably several other problems ). Add 10 liters water and 2.5ml PH down - PH = 5.8, 640ppm. Here my slow brain started to think that maybe 26 C water temperature was not such a good idea so I left the tent open and set the AC down to 18 C. 13/07/2017 My poor babies look terrible, all wilting and turning brown What to do? It's when I lifted the lid that the snotty reality hit me - ALGAE, and lots of it! I was so distressed about the suffering babies that I did not take photos of this now algae incubator. DUMP THE WATER!!! Thinking that more Proplant would solve the algae problem, I, in all my wisdom did not wash the container, but just put new water in(idiot). 30 liter water - 64ppm 10g GROW nutrients (half of previous) - 300ppm 60ml Proplant (double previous) - 600ppm 20ml PH down - 650ppm PH = 5.4 14/07/2017 PH = 7.8. WTF?!?!?!?! Add 30ml PH down - PH = 6.1 Temp on lid = 26 C Water temp = 21 C Hum = 46% I gained a concerned supervisor at this stage (cat) that sat in watching everything I did as it was becoming obvious that I had no clue what was going on Time to go and do some serious homework and get some good advice from the knowledgeable good people on this forum in another thread in "Hydroponics ". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 15/07/2017 I must have looked at hundreds of pictures and read numerous posts to try and pinpoint my problem. Together with some good advice from this forum I have now come to my senses and had a plan. Dump the water AGAIN! Wash EVERYTHING thoroughly (even rinsed out the net-pots with pebbles and plants in them)! Decided that Proplant is k@k and did not add it again. 30 liter water - 86ppm, PH = 7.7 10g GROW nutrients - 300ppm, PH = 7.1 20ml PH down - 315ppm, PH = 5.6 Temp on lid: 24 C Water temp: 20 C Hum: 47% These TDS readings look a bit more appropriate for baby plants Now it's wait and see. Seems that the AK48 is more sensitive than the WR. After all that work and stress I had to sit and enjoy the sea view for a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 PROGRESS!! 17/07/2017 New white roots are forming. Leaves are not showing signs of recovering yet. 20/07/2017 New leaves are BEAUTIFUL and lots of new root growth! Add 10 liters nutrient water to fill reservoirs more as the roots are now long enough to reach the water. Drop light to 55cm above plants (too soon) PH now remaining much more stable, I take it down to 5.5 and let it rise to 6 over several days before adjusting again. 25/07/2017 ECSTATIC with the recovery after the near extinction of my babies! WR recovering faster than AK48. I was too eager with dropping the light and got some light burn on a few leaves, but this time I caught it early and raised the light to 70cm again. This seems to be sufficient light at the moment as the nodes are close together with no stretching. Now I wait for the girls to regain their strength, then I'm going to top them and start building a manifold to try and end with 8 main colas. Get the popcorn, the show will continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totemic Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Well. With all the ph punishment they had, They are looking much better. It does take time to dial a new room in. A lot of the issues arise from trying to micro manage everything. Once it becomes routine for you, that disappears. For checking ph, do you let your nutrient solution rest a bit after adding nutes etc before taking the ph and tds readings? Let it all settle and let the ions sort out the solution to stable, and the ride will be smoother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 Well. With all the ph punishment they had, They are looking much better. It does take time to dial a new room in. A lot of the issues arise from trying to micro manage everything. Once it becomes routine for you, that disappears. For checking ph, do you let your nutrient solution rest a bit after adding nutes etc before taking the ph and tds readings? Let it all settle and let the ions sort out the solution to stable, and the ride will be smoother. Yes, I let it stand for about 10 minutes after adding anything before testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 @Duracell Awesome, glad your girls are on the mend, nicely done. Adding on to what Totemic has said; if your water / nutes have sat for a long time prior to res. change, also account for oxygenation altering pH slightly. Adjust existing res incrementally, I've seen 0.2 increments thrown around as a number to aim ait, but seen nothing concrete. Stands to reason you do not want big fluctuations in short spaces of time. With the algae/growth managed, your pH should be a lot more stable. Consider wrapping the res. in something reflective, as it's black it will heat up. A panda film curtain is easy enough, or whatever floats your goat. Well worth it. Insulating is an add-on option as well, provided air temps are actually higher than res. temps. I also began with mainlining my DWC girl, but opted to FIM once had decent structure after first top. Worked quite well, though one side took longer to recover and lagged, but not proper mainlining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted July 30, 2017 Author Share Posted July 30, 2017 Hi, I'm glad to report that things are looking really good The two larger plants ( 1 x AK48 and 1 x WR) are flourishing, the other AK48 seems to have more damage and grows much slower and a bit deformed but the young WR that I planted a week late is catching up quickly. I decided to separate the two strains so that I can regulate nutrients for each strain as needed. The new reservoir lid is now painted white instead of the alu foil tape. Both reservoirs has new water and nutrients - AK48 left and WR right. The two larger plants have recovered enough, so I topped them and will remove the lower growth after a couple of days. Pictures show before and after topping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 1, 2017 Author Share Posted August 1, 2017 I have removed all the lower growth on the two larger plants and started LST to start building the manifolds. The smaller WR was also topped above the 3rd node. I could not make up my mind about the "sick" AK48 plant, but considering its slower growth, decided to rather FIM this little runt and see what she does. They are still on a 0.3g/l nutrient concentration and seem to be healthy and growing well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 New growth is coming in well! How's the root zone after prior issues? When you top or FIM, I'd suggest leaving some more fan leaves going (you can clip the ends to stop growth if like) for photosynthesis. Can still pinch any new shoots below new tops, or any which you don't want for that matter. Just two more fan leaves, on a young lady with only two fan leaves is providing twice the surface area for your girls' photosynthesis. You're also given a little more of a buffer for mobile nute deficiencies, or other issues which may arise, which is an added bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 Thanks for the advice narnia. The roots are beautiful after the previous issues, will get some pics of that soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 2, 2017 Author Share Posted August 2, 2017 My gardening companion likes to relax in the corner Some pics of the nicely recovered roots. AK48 roots. WR roots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Ha, how'd my cat end up in your tent? What a man-ho! Looking good. Nice lateral / hair growth coming and new hairy roots popping out of the hydroton, no bounce back effect of baddies in res. good stuff, well done m8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 QUESTION 1 What causes PH to drop from 5.5 to 4.8 in a day if everything else looks good? The reservoir with the WR (painted white lid) did this two days in a row. Each time I addad 0.5ml PH Up to the 40 liters to get is back to 5.5. The other res with the AK48 stays glued on PH 5.9. Foliage and roots look healthy??? QUESTION 2 The older leaves on the AK48 are showing signs of something off. I still have the nutes at the low level I started with (340ppm) because the plants seem to do well (and I don't want to mess with something that works). Does this look like it could be nutrient deficiency? Opinions? I would like to catch any pending disaster long before it happens Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Shit, round the ringer. Q1: Verify your readings with drops or another meter, given one res shows stable pH can probably rule out readings. Provided the res, stayed stable and you did not add or change anything (if you did, look there first). Some semi-prioritized guesses: 1.Do you regularly check EC/TDS of the res. any changes? 2.Don't need to fondle them, but really look over the roots to be hundreds there's no damage, growth, jelly, discoloration, etc. 3.Have you cleaned / checked your water pump recently? They can get really funky inside. 4.Is there anything noticeable in the res.? - foam, froth on top - cloudiness of solution - grains / crystals / something at the bottom of the res? Q2 I do not *think* that is indicative of deficiency or toxicity on the leaves, but goes back to root health, again- perhaps someone else has other ideas to add. The spotting is quite close to some images of septoria, but not close enough. The wilting / overwatered look coupled with knowing you've had root issues, points to root zone. -------- Right now (excluding pH, rot, etc. as looked at that above) they have that overwatered wilted look. Increasing oxygen in water (more airstones, temps down) and bringing water level a little further below net pots, to expose more roots to air, will help that. Again though, gotta be sure root health is good. I would again suggest pulling your water pump and drippers, and just have air stones + pump(s). Monitor water level in res. to find right height perhaps light hand feed with some water from res. if needed as girls adjust. The popping bubbles mist the area that the drippers were feeding in any case. I only saw improvement once I removed my water pump and drippers in early growth. I, too, had that droopy overwatered look. After playing around with many different cycle times opted to hand water small amounts as needed (which wasn't often) until roots hit res. Your roots are huge for relative plant size. Your res. temps should come way down, the pumps create heat, which will increase dissolved oxygen and therefore a less hospitable environment for baddies. Nevermind how siff some water pumps can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 7, 2017 Author Share Posted August 7, 2017 I went through your great recommendations. Checked the calibration on my PH pen, "fondled" the roots to check for any signs of trouble, etc. - Nothing So myself and I had a long discussion about what could be different between the two reservoirs and that got me on the trail of this very unlikely culprit. The only difference between the two reservoirs was the type of airstones that I used, so I swopped them around and suddenly the other reservoirs' PH started dropping I bought this rubber "airstone" that can be bent into any shape at the local petshop. When I deducted that this air diffuser must be what's causing my PH dropping, I cut it open to see what they used to keep it in shape when you bend it. I found what looks like very thick soldering wire running the length of the rubber pipe. Not sure of the composition of the wire, but once removed the PH stabilized. I don't think fish are going to do to good in a tank with this air diffuser either SO: DON'T use this type of air diffuser without removing the wire inside Concerning the browning and droopy leaves, I stopped the pumps and drippers and that seems to have done the trick - Thanks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jland Posted August 7, 2017 Share Posted August 7, 2017 That's quite a sneaky suprise, nice one on finding the problem bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 Just a couple of pics to the girls turning into promising teenagers 1st WR 2nd WR AK48 I'm ecstatic about the fast healthy growth! Going to do a res change again this weekend and up the nutes a bit. Another one of my very interested observers Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jland Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Ahoys bro. The ladies have bounced back awesomely! Looking lush Howzit to pooch, what's his/her name? Are you a fan of any YouTube channels? That pic reminds me so much of NV and Little Cookie. Little Dookie has moved on since but they made a kick ass grow team! Peace bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Whoa, that's pretty weird. Wouldn't think it would be wet due to the air pressure, so not sure how air passing over metal would effect pH but who cares if it worked. Nice find and fix! Girls are looking healthier, particularly the one White Rhino is well chuffed. Res. temps a bit lower it seems with water pumps out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 15, 2017 Author Share Posted August 15, 2017 Hi Jland, the pooch's name is Pikkie, she's my shadow - a real skootbrakkie narnia, it seems I was premature with my conclusion about the PH. Did a res change on Saturday and now I have the PH dropping on me daily again - both reservoirs! Checked the calibration of the PH pen and it's on the dot. Can't figure this out. Maybe someone had a similar problem and can give advice? The WRs are doing awesome and growing like mad, but the AK48 is growing very slow even-though the leaves and roots look healthy. Can this be because of insufficient nutrients for this strain? All and all, I'm having a ball growing these girls. Can't wait to go spend some time with them every afternoon Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted August 16, 2017 Share Posted August 16, 2017 Ayy, shite that sucks after thinking you had it licked. Check over the items in my last post, if you haven't already. Excluding items from the problem solving really helps, e.g. root health, which you seem to have in good stead. If roots are brackish it's pointless looking at other items. It's frustrating, I know, but somewhat like turning your PC off and on again before spend hours debugging the registry, if that analogy makes sense. #1 from that post was EC/TDS/PPM values- you really do need to be checking these frequently and collating with water levels (how much was drunk by girls) and pH, it's difficult af trying to get around that. For example: if water level is dropping, pH is falling, and EC is rising; this generally means feed less- as girls are drinking, but not feeding, therefore nute solution is less dilute, higher EC, which accounts for the drop in pH as most nutes are going to drop your pH, bar things like calcium, easy to see when you mix your nutes before checking and pH-ing. If water level stays the same, EC stays the same, pH falls - something else is up. How much air are you pumping into the res? Where are your air pumps? Can look into acid rain effect. Pumps push air, which contains other gases, not just O2 but CO2 as well, which in HIGH quantities can acidify your solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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