The Haze Club - They will grow weed for you

[Ill_Evan]

Was reminded of The Haze Club recently and I went to go see what's going on with their case as the outcome will essentially determine and set precedent for the grow club model which would open up all sorts of doors for any reasonable grower. 

Here's the updates from their side that I've collected: 

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In October 2020, The Haze Club was raided by SAPS. All plants and equipment were confiscated and our director arrested.

We have been working tirelessly with our attorneys preparing to file an application for a declaratory order which was submitted to The Cape High Court on the 2nd of February, 2021. A judge will review our model and rule whether it is inline with the Constitutional Court ruling of 2018, as we and our attorneys believe it is.

Our operations have been suspended pending the outcome of the case as we seek to get get clarity, once and for all, on the legality of the grow club model.

We are doing everything we can to ensure that your constitutional right to cultivate cannabis in private is not infringed upon.

Wish us luck, and we’ll see you in court!

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The Haze Club & The High Court, what's the story?⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
This time last week, we filed our application for a declaratory order at The Cape High Court. But what does this mean?⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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It consists of two parts. The first part is to seek a stay of prosecution for the very serious criminal charges that THC director and employees are facing. These charges include cultivation and trafficking with a minimum sentence of 15 years each! So the first part of our application is to "pause" these charges until a judge has ruled on THC's version of The Grow Club Model.⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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The second part of the application is where we outline The Haze Club's model and how this aligns with the Constitutional Court ruling of 2018, legalizing the cultivation of cannabis in private. It is our view, and that of our attorneys, that our model has always been in-line with the judgement and we have at all times been operating legally. We hope reason will prevail and the judge will agree.⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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So where are we now?⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
Due to the significance of this case and the many stakeholders involved, before the case goes to trial and we present our case before the judge, we need to serve the relevant ministries and give them opportunity to contend our affidavit. This has been done, and now we wait too see if they intend to oppose our application. The ball is in their court, and now we wait.⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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Why is this case important?⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
The outcome of our case will set legal precedent for everyone. If we lose, The Grow Club Model is dead. If we win, The Haze Club's version of the model will serve as a road map for ALL to follow. This will be a monumental step forward for cannabis in South Africa and will provide legitimacy to the model. Uniquely South African, this model provides an opportunity for "the little guys" to make a meaningful contribution to the industry.

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The wheels of justice are finally turning, and we have a date for our hearing in The Cape High Court! ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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Firstly, we want to thank those members who submitted affidavits in support of our case. Your support, and indeed the support of all members and the community at large, is truly inspiring and very much appreciated. We’ll be setting legal precedent together!⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀
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The first day of proceedings are set for the 14th of June, 2021 at the Western Cape High Court. We will present our case before a judge who will make a ruling fairly soon thereafter, but this may not be the end of things. If ruled in our favour the state can appeal the decision in which case the matter would need to be reconsidered by an appeal court, either a full bench of three judges at the High Court or the Supreme Court of Appeal. If the judge rules against us we could similarly appeal the decision. Either way, there is a possibility that we will still be waiting for a final decision even after the matter is heard in June. Only time will tell, but we hope for the best!

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THC's day in court this week was postponed yet again. We were all set to go when the ministry of health notified our legal team that they would be joining the department of correctional services and the ministry of police in opposing our submission. As yet we have not received their affidavit so it remains to be seen what exactly they will be opposing. The case has therefore been postponed and it's looking likely that we will only get to court in September. Once again, we wait and see.

 

From the above it's clear to me the state has fucked up and are using delay tactics, probably to allow whatever big businesses to setup before they finally release whatever bullshit bill they have under their sleeves to make this all play in their favour. 

I predict the cannabis club grow model to work in conjunction in a limited capacity alongside big businesses. They will try their best to limit the amounts as not to contest with big business but until big business can sell locally, it's essentially meaningless and grow clubs will have the headstart. Whatever limits they try impose will be impossible to enforce. 

Also seems like The Haze Club have not been in operation since the initial bust, that's a very very long time not to be in business, and I hope they sue the state for loss of potential business. 

That's why I think the state is fucked. They have many bills to pay for this. So we will see in September whether they have their day in court or not. 

[PsyCLown]

Quite exciting indeed, we continue to wait for now.

[Chris Jay]

7 hours ago, Ill_Evan said:

From the above it's clear to me the state has fucked up and are using delay tactics, probably to allow whatever big businesses to setup before they finally release whatever bullshit bill they have under their sleeves to make this all play in their favour. 

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. If you think the state is using delay tactics, you have never lived in South Africa, just kidding, but does make you think. Keep it up Haze Club. Raspect.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Chris Jay

[Ill_Evan]

26 minutes ago, Chris Jay said:

Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Just wanted to make sure you'd understand  I know you get confused sometimes

[The_StonedTrooper]

With that cap, hmmm, captain obvious

[Ill_Evan]

32 minutes ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

With that cap, hmmm, captain obvious

Of the Seven Seas of Give-a-crap 

[The_StonedTrooper]

1 hour ago, Ill_Evan said:

Of the Seven Seas of Give-a-crap 

Dont worry, next few days, you'll be "experienced"

I appreciated the information you provided about the THC though, thank you 11 

Edited July 26, 2021 by The_StonedTrooper

[Ill_Evan]

2 hours ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

Dont worry, next few days, you'll be "experienced"

Finally I'll be able to mingle with the big boys again 

[ORGANinc.]

19 hours ago, Ill_Evan said:

Was reminded of The Haze Club recently and I went to go see what's going on with their case as the outcome will essentially determine and set precedent for the grow club model which would open up all sorts of doors for any reasonable grower. 

Here's the updates from their side that I've collected: 

 

From the above it's clear to me the state has fucked up and are using delay tactics, probably to allow whatever big businesses to setup before they finally release whatever bullshit bill they have under their sleeves to make this all play in their favour. 

I predict the cannabis club grow model to work in conjunction in a limited capacity alongside big businesses. They will try their best to limit the amounts as not to contest with big business but until big business can sell locally, it's essentially meaningless and grow clubs will have the headstart. Whatever limits they try impose will be impossible to enforce. 

Also seems like The Haze Club have not been in operation since the initial bust, that's a very very long time not to be in business, and I hope they sue the state for loss of potential business. 

That's why I think the state is fucked. They have many bills to pay for this. So we will see in September whether they have their day in court or not. 

There might be some information that's been left out regarding the case, soon after the haze club decided to go for the interdict from the constitutional court regarding the legality of the model, the SAPS responded with a dense affidavit describing what their findings were and the contradictions or flaws in their model compared to that of a functioning Cannabis club.

Marking or cordoning off space allocated for members (they did not do), marking or labeling seeds that should have come from members (apparently also not done), barcoding or labelling bud for specific members (SAPS again say they were not doing) and then talking about SeaOfGreen methods utilized on their website, in the affidavit, that just sounds terrible. We cutting lots of clones to grow many many plants for the most yield.

Just some more information, I honestly do hope they come out strong and everything works out, additionally giving the community a bases on the do's and don't in terms of the clubs for interest sake, and as guidelines for future clubs.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by ORGANinc.

[Ill_Evan]

3 hours ago, ORGANinc. said:

Just some more information, I honestly do hope they come out strong and everything works out, additionally giving the community a bases on the do's and don't in terms of the clubs for interest sake, and as guidelines for future clubs.

If we must sacrifice THC for cannabis clubs to be a thing, I'd be ok with that 

[ORGANinc.]

38 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

If we must sacrifice THC for cannabis clubs to be a thing, I'd be ok with that 

Clubs are a thing, many of them operating out there. Their lawyers seem pretty confident, so let see what happens. 

This may not apply to every province, but I think it was in PE, saw a video of SAPS vans arriving at at a club on a farm somewhere, they were there for about 5/10 minutes and then left politely.

Could've been any reason, but what ever it was must have been some compelling stuff.  

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

A classic old saying comes to mind when I read all this, "Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway. Stupidity is the same thing. And that's why life is hard."

I am sure a lot of you have heard about this Natures Pharmacy place operating under the One Culture club thing and there are other cannabis related social clubs and quite some movement in the "treating cannabis as if it is already legal" department. 

Here is my question, you guys see this as courage our stupidity? You guys think these people are hindering the movement or are they helping it?

When looking at all the big names in usa such as Mendo Dope and Jungle Boys they all share a similar backstory, and that is that they all had to break the law quite a couple times and face long court hours to get to where they are. Today those guys are heros in the industry. 

Not saying we should look at how they run things over there in Murica, I would never say that, but we can "cherry-pick"  what we wana learn from.

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

15 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

Clubs are a thing, many of them operating out there. Their lawyers seem pretty confident, so let see what happens. 

This may not apply to every province, but I think it was in PE, saw a video of SAPS vans arriving at at a club on a farm somewhere, they were there for about 5/10 minutes and then left politely.

Could've been any reason, but what ever it was must have been some compelling stuff.  

I was at natures pharmacy when cops came in, both had to "join the club" to enter the smoking area, so give all their details and pay the fee, then the one dude looked at a couple jars of weed, they looked aroud the area and left. few weeks pass and I am there again and the dude running the branch told me they all got arrested and spent a couple hours in a cell with real criminals, then was let go later the same day and they got a fuck ton of weed back that was confiscated and is now sueing the police dudes for wrongfull arrests. 

this was all in the paarl post newspaper. 

[ORGANinc.]

9 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

I was at natures pharmacy when cops came in, both had to "join the club" to enter the smoking area, so give all their details and pay the fee, then the one dude looked at a couple jars of weed, they looked aroud the area and left. few weeks pass and I am there again and the dude running the branch told me they all got arrested and spent a couple hours in a cell with real criminals, then was let go later the same day and they got a fuck ton of weed back that was confiscated and is now sueing the police dudes for wrongfull arrests. 

this was all in the paarl post newspaper. 

Ya, that just shows you how unpredictable all this shit really is... When I think about a club, I do not think one facility or one farm, I think about a network of growers, consumers, and a managing body (the club)...  Growing for themselves and for a handful of close friends or family members. 

 Its quite easy for people to miss the concept all together, and then poof, your deemed illegal. 

[Ill_Evan]

21 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

Here is my question, you guys see this as courage our stupidity? You guys think these people are hindering the movement or are they helping it?

Well, many big name hydroponic stores in SA started by selling weed as well so.. 

36 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

Clubs are a thing, many of them operating out there.

I am aware, and to @Naughty.Psychonaut's point and to mine as well, it isn't under any official regulation so any one of them can be technically shutdown. I in fact went to my local Cannapax (before they got shut down) to check out the place and try out their weed just to compare to what I was growing at the time. It was also just fascinating to me that they operated so openly. 

What I meant by clubs being a thing was rather the ability for clubs to operate openly and not get randomly searched or harassed by the popo or anybody else. The guys who run clubs more privately are obviously going to be ahead of the game for sure, so I'd say they fall under the label of courageous, while guys like Cannapax fall under stupidity. 

1 minute ago, ORGANinc. said:

When I think about a club, I do not think one facility or one farm, I think about a network of growers, consumers, and a managing body (the club)...  Growing for themselves and for a handful of close friends or family members. 

Yes exactly like this  minus any worries from authority.

If THC were in fact not operating in the way that they should have, then I guess they fall under a bit of both courageous and stupid  but this alone is very interesting to me because I wonder if Schindlers would be supporting them so thoroughly if this were the case or whether the SAPS are claiming that they weren't in order for THC to prove them wrong and to see how much data/evidence THC were actually able to obtain/keep. 

[Ill_Evan]

I heard a similar group of guys got taken down in Durban recently. It appears if you are full-on just growing weed for people, somebody is going to have a problem.

Although it seems that hydro stores and cafes who supply cannabis to individuals are being left alone for the most part. Kinda fucky, but this is the trend I'm seeing. 

[ORGANinc.]

49 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

I heard a similar group of guys got taken down in Durban recently. It appears if you are full-on just growing weed for people, somebody is going to have a problem.

Although it seems that hydro stores and cafes who supply cannabis to individuals are being left alone for the most part. Kinda fucky, but this is the trend I'm seeing. 

I think I heard on cannabiz news desk, them saying that Haze club had got a date at the constitutional court to finally get an answer regarding their model and legitimacy of such, they said around June/July I think. Then they also commented that it being useful information or not is determined on how they plan to introduce this new recreation commercialization bombshell that has recently been dropped. Making them legit regardless. 

Something is coming, fingers crossed!

[SkunkPharm]

I stand to be corrected but I think the case will be heard in the cape high court. 

[Ill_Evan]

I discovered these dudes called Under The Table Members Club (UTTMC) and they are pretty much the same model as THC. I was reading through their site and I saw this; 

..and I think, huh? Verdict is still out with THC so where is this compliance and from who? 

So a little digging comes up with this:

Who in the hell are GOA? These dudes are giving me Cannapax vibes with the black magic fuckery they doing with establishing their own loopholes when we all know that no legal framework exists and they are basing their entire model on the constitutional judgment from 2018 and because the two years that parliament had to establish the laws has lapsed people are just going free-for-all before the THC judgment is made or before parliament drops us a big dookie of a law. 

It seems kinda predatory to take payment from people and tell them they are "compliant" without actually having any legality to back it up. You literally cannot pull up any regulation or law in South Africa for this unless you're going through the Medicines Act, that is the only regulation that exists right now. 

I'm also open to being tuned. Nothing would make my day better than knowing I can go do the same and openly run a cannabis club under some arbitrary compliance, but I've also seen plenty people burned before. 

[Totemic]

I'll reserve comment for now. 

It would be great to find out more about how they manage to circumvent the current grey wall we are all staring at... The high court hasn't even spoken on the club model, nvm the apex court

Edited May 11, 2022 by Totemic

[SkunkPharm]

1 hour ago, Ill_Evan said:

I discovered these dudes called Under The Table Members Club (UTTMC) and they are pretty much the same model as THC. I was reading through their site and I saw this; 

..and I think, huh? Verdict is still out with THC so where is this compliance and from who? 

So a little digging comes up with this:

Who in the hell are GOA? These dudes are giving me Cannapax vibes with the black magic fuckery they doing with establishing their own loopholes when we all know that no legal framework exists and they are basing their entire model on the constitutional judgment from 2018 and because the two years that parliament had to establish the laws has lapsed people are just going free-for-all before the THC judgment is made or before parliament drops us a big dookie of a law. 

It seems kinda predatory to take payment from people and tell them they are "compliant" without actually having any legality to back it up. You literally cannot pull up any regulation or law in South Africa for this unless you're going through the Medicines Act, that is the only regulation that exists right now. 

I'm also open to being tuned. Nothing would make my day better than knowing I can go do the same and openly run a cannabis club under some arbitrary compliance, but I've also seen plenty people burned before. 

This is the Grow one Africa model. Natures nursery. 

[ORGANinc.]

Riskkkaaayyyy business 

[Chris Jay]

That is what is great about stepping outside ones home and seeing for oneself. I think GOA has about 24 "licensed" coffee shops now, all according to them within the legal framework. Now that is not coming from a stoner but an expensive lawyer who speaks latin and a big briefcase. 

Cannapax, dont hang with people who purchased the cheapest franchise in South African history by R175K. The interesting people who went with Cannapax ( trail blazers ) and navigated the murky waters with them, did not talk crap wanting the owner of cannapax 20 years jail time, developed the strategy, never gave up and running a successful social club, hats off to you. You are what the industry needs.  

[ORGANinc.]

10 hours ago, Chris Jay said:

That is what is great about stepping outside ones home and seeing for oneself. I think GOA has about 24 "licensed" coffee shops now, all according to them within the legal framework. Now that is not coming from a stoner but an expensive lawyer who speaks latin and a big briefcase. 

Cannapax, dont hang with people who purchased the cheapest franchise in South African history by R175K. The interesting people who went with Cannapax ( trail blazers ) and navigated the murky waters with them, did not talk crap wanting the owner of cannapax 20 years jail time, developed the strategy, never gave up and running a successful social club, hats off to you. You are what the industry needs.  

The Haze clubs hearing is confirmed for the the 9th of June, there we will find out what they think about the clubs. Currently the amended draft proposal includes a paragraph about the commercialization of recreational cannabis, no details just an insertion and somewhat of a notion that regulations would follow somewhere.

With so much detail around what where and how in terms of cannabis and cannabis consumption, one usually gets the feeling that the community is still being strung along the path of bullshit hopes and dreams. I still have little faith in governments vision for cannabis. 

The only further extension they want to offer is instead of 4 flowering plants if you are alone, they will allow 1 individual 8 plants on the premise that medical evidence is provided for the need for palliation. 8 plants, no more! As if they are coming to the table and meeting the needs of the people.

Buying, selling, giving, and everything in and around the shadows they don't care. More than 8 flowering plants and you'll still be considered a criminal with the merky system we have. Doesn't mean you'll be convicted. Just means you could very possibly be inconvenienced.

You got to take your hat off to these guys doing their thing and writing a side law for themselves to be governed by, based on what information they have. Not saying what they have come up with is wrong. As I have said before, these guys upscaling and taking themselves away from initial preface are still journeying on unchartered territory. Actually people have already been there and done that, and well they have court dates now.

I get the whole empowering the community scheme and getting everyone to grow more and make things more accepted, but at the end of the day, we need to see face value of this thing, government see illegal farms as part and parcel of the Justice system, the same Justice system that is still amending the bill, even though Rama P said moenie wary nie, Precedency got this... More lies.  

[Chris Jay]

I would love to find a quote I read from a lawyer about cannabis in SA, how the people are creating the market and culture. He said it perfectly. 

With the rejection of the last bill by the people, seems like we are winning a bit. The biggest thing is support, and here is one for you guys in CT. The Global Cannabis March, step out and support. This will help in so many ways, buy hemp, buy weed from Cannapax, grow more than 8 plants. Ovagrow the system they trying to control.