LED vs LED

[MentalYeti]

Afternoon all the wise peeps here.

i am looking for some advice please. i ahev recently bought one of these

 

I am not to keen on the results. I understand that it is not a true 1000w. (most likley 100-240w)

So I am keen to get one of these.

 

Budget is non existant and trying what ever I can for a decent indoor grow.

 

any recomendations would be supper awesome.

 

 

 

 

[PsyCLown]

I'd personally rather use the "1000W" light than that 50W COB type of light.

Although ultimately, it would be worth while to try and save up and get some decent LEDs.

 

What is your budget? I know @CreX may consider selling his HPS and Nova LED's soon, perhaps you can make a plan with him.

Edited September 26, 2019 by PsyCLown

[MentalYeti]

@PsyCLown thank you much. Uhm.. yeah about the budget and saving. I am a father of 3 and my wife recently lost her Job. the struggle is real. I dont think i am trusting that LED i have to be honest. but this is my opinion i guess. I have moved all my plants outside now. save about 4 seedlings. maybe i should hold up on the LED and use the one I have. I have learned that Soil make a Maaaaaaasive difference.

having said that @CreX I might just possibly be interested in the HPS.

sigh. I have no idea.

 

anyone here from CT?

 

[PsyCLown]

Just now, MentalYeti said:

@PsyCLown thank you much. Uhm.. yeah about the budget and saving. I am a father of 3 and my wife recently lost her Job. the struggle is real. I dont think i am trusting that LED i have to be honest. but this is my opinion i guess. I have moved all my plants outside now. save about 4 seedlings. maybe i should hold up on the LED and use the one I have. I have learned that Soil make a Maaaaaaasive difference.

having said that @CreX I might just possibly be interested in the HPS.

sigh. I have no idea.

 

anyone here from CT?

 

Soil makes a big difference, although light can make an even bigger difference.

 

You need to try and simulate the sun in a way, not an easy task. If you have shit lights, but the best soil and nutes - your plants will still turn out shit. Without proper lighting your plants cannot produce food for themselves properly. Without proper lights, your plants may struggle with photosynthesis.

 

IMO lights are probably one of the most important pieces of indoor grow equipment, without lights your plants wont flourish and may not even survive.

 

Perhaps drop @CreX a PM regarding his HPS and see if he is still thinking about selling them. Then later on when circumstances are better, you can upgrade to some decent LED's.

 

Alternatively, consider an outdoor grow until you can afford good lights.

[CreX]

@MentalYeti, yea man, I have some options for you.

I have a 250w HPS setup

I have a 250w MH setup

I have a 400w HPS/MH setup

All ready to go when you are ready... 

I haven't posted them yet, but if you're keen I can make it happen

[MentalYeti]

@MentalYeti, yea man, I have some options for you.
I have a 250w HPS setup
I have a 250w MH setup
I have a 400w HPS/MH setup
All ready to go when you are ready... 
I haven't posted them yet, but if you're keen I can make it happen

@CreX I will PM you later tonight if that's cool? I use it as medicine. So it's a catch 22. Lol
Thanks@PsyCLown

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[PsyCLown]

27 minutes ago, MentalYeti said:

@CreX I will PM you later tonight if that's cool? I use it as medicine. So it's a catch 22. Lol
Thanks@PsyCLown

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If you use it as medicine, it sounds as if it's needed.

 

You have the choice of either growing your own, where you have the ability to grow whatever strain you want and chances are the quality will be far superior to what you would be purchasing. Upfront it may cost a bit more, however will be far cheaper than purchasing all the time and save you money in the long run.

The second option is to take the money and buy bud. In the long run it will end up costing more, but will be cheaper short term.

[MentalYeti]

If you use it as medicine, it sounds as if it's needed.
 
You have the choice of either growing your own, where you have the ability to grow whatever strain you want and chances are the quality will be far superior to what you would be purchasing. Upfront it may cost a bit more, however will be far cheaper than purchasing all the time and save you money in the long run.
The second option is to take the money and buy bud. In the long run it will end up costing more, but will be cheaper short term.

Agreed and you are 100% spot for on. And this is where my mission all started. I have learned alot on this forum. I wish I had found it earlier. I think it would have saved my ass from that LED I got.

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[highchome]

1 hour ago, MentalYeti said:

anyone here from CT?

Quite a few of us yes. Perhaps join the CT club, here: https://www.420sa.co.za/clubs/3-cape-town/

I'm using a Bestva LED that looks pretty much like the 1000W one you posted, that +  2 x 100-100W CFLs and 1 * a 100W LED spot-light  (super DIY stuff). I could certainly do with a lot more light, but the results have not been bad so far. If you have no choice I think you'll be ok with what you have for now. I.e. don't stop while you wait for a perfect or even good setup. Perhaps consider going direct to flower for faster turnaround on the first grow, may also be better for less light.

Which is not to say that I disagree with anything said above, its very good advice. I not sure I'd have got this LED lamp had I been on the forum longer, though perhaps I'd never have started growing if I had to wait to pay 3* more. Personally I'm also looking at what I need to do to improve my light situation, I'd love a better LED setup. I'm just saying I think you can grow for meds so long while sorting things out.

BTW once you get to 30 posts, send a message to @ 420sa and ask to join the seed/clone exchange club. I may have some extra clones in the next few weeks as it happens. So just DM me a reminder if you are interested and I'll see what I can do.

Edited September 26, 2019 by highchome

[MentalYeti]

Quite a few of us yes. Perhaps join the CT club, here: https://www.420sa.co.za/clubs/3-cape-town/
I'm using a Bestva LED that looks pretty much like the 1000W one you posted, that +  2 x 100-100W CFLs and 1 * a 100W LED spot-light  (super DIY stuff). I could certainly do with a lot more light, but the results have not been bad so far. If you have no choice I think you'll be ok with what you have for now. I.e. don't stop while you wait for a perfect or even good setup. Perhaps consider going direct to flower for faster turnaround on the first grow, may also be better for less light.
Which is not to say that I disagree with anything said above, its very good advice. I not sure I'd have got this LED lamp had I been on the forum longer, though perhaps I'd never have started growing if I had to wait to pay 3* more. Personally I'm also looking at what I need to do to improve my light situation, I'd love a better LED setup. I'm just saying I think you can grow for meds so long while sorting things out.
BTW once you get to 30 posts, send a message to @ 420sa and ask to join the seed/clone exchange club. I may have some extra clones in the next few weeks as it happens. So just DM me a reminder if you are interested and I'll see what I can do.

Guys on this forum are absolute rock stars. I Definitely am part of the CT group. Will pay it more attention in future. I think you are onto something with your above statement about lighting and using what I have.
Maybe I will add a bit more CFL's at a later stage.
I have outdoor on the go as well. All experiments at this point. And backup. Hahaha.

Part of my problem is the balls to the wall apraoch. This as you can imagine makes my wife less than happy. Lol




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[highchome]

1 minute ago, MentalYeti said:

I think you are onto something with your above statement about lighting and using what I have.

You will 100% get lower yields doing that, but you'll get zero yield not growing in the meantime  

Perhaps start a grow diary too. I got loads of advice that I think helped me get the most out of what I have. As you say, this is an amazing forum

[PsyCLown]

If you purchases it from Takealot recently, you may still be able to return it.

If you wanted to, although I'd only consider it if you are planning on upgrading to something better.

I look at grow lights more as an investment, quality LED's will last you a long time.
They are more efficient and therefore reduce your electricity bill and at the same time will help increase yield, leading to even better efficiency overall.

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[highchome]

@PsyCLown where would you look at for quality LEDs?  

 

2 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

They are more efficient and therefore reduce your electricity bill and at the same time will help increase yield, leading to even better efficiency overall.

Yeah, I'm sure even the CFLs I'm using are wasting a bit compared to good LEDs

[PsyCLown]

@PsyCLown where would you look at for quality LEDs?  
 
Yeah, I'm sure even the CFLs I'm using are wasting a bit compared to good LEDs

It's all about the diodes, Samsung make some great ones.
Lm561c, lm301b, lm351h are all very popular diodes. Any of those will do fantastic in terms of growing and they all have high efficiency.

I wouldn't bother with the CFLs. For clones they're fine, once the plant gets bigger you really want to move away. They're extremely inefficient actually, the power consumed and what the plant gets out of the light isn't great.

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[Trailblazer420]

Just some feedback on the COBs, they work well but the spread sucks, which is why quantum boards work out better, from a light distribution perspective. So if you're running cobs, I would suggest at least having some 100w chips. Check out my DIY threads regarding COBs. You'll need a lot of chips. Next thing is, those COBs, when running enough of them, NOT 'light' on electricity. A 100w Chinese COB will cost you around R100 - R150 from eBay, slap it at the bottom of a cpu cooler and off you go. Total cost under R200 for a 100w light.

Personal opinion is that QBs are lighter on electricity, better spread and generally 'prettier' than the COBs. If you budget is super tight, COBs may be the way to go, but they come at cost due to higher draw.

From a end result perspective, I can't say which is better, I have no complaints and product is comparable to 400W HID, which is what I ran previously.

Good luck man..

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[PsyCLown]

50 minutes ago, Trailblazer420 said:

Just some feedback on the COBs, they work well but the spread sucks, which is why quantum boards work out better, from a light distribution perspective. So if you're running cobs, I would suggest at least having some 100w chips. Check out my DIY threads regarding COBs. You'll need a lot of chips. Next thing is, those COBs, when running enough of them, NOT 'light' on electricity. A 100w Chinese COB will cost you around R100 - R150 from eBay, slap it at the bottom of a cpu cooler and off you go. Total cost under R200 for a 100w light.

Personal opinion is that QBs are lighter on electricity, better spread and generally 'prettier' than the COBs. If you budget is super tight, COBs may be the way to go, but they come at cost due to higher draw.

From a end result perspective, I can't say which is better, I have no complaints and product is comparable to 400W HID, which is what I ran previously.

Good luck man..

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So once again, a COB a type of LED, Chip on Board. End of the day, the actual type of LED in place on the COB will ultimately determine the performance.

 

Let's use cars as an example, think of COB as a hatch back and a Quantum Board as a sedan.

There are many different hatch backs and sedans. Now think of comparing a Hyundai i10 (a certain type of COB) to an Audi RS3 (another type of COB). Both are hatchback cars but the RS3 has way more power than the i10.

The same applies to Quantum boards, compare a Honda Civic Sedan to a BMW M3 - both are sedans (Quantum Boards) but once again the M3 has way more power.

 

It really comes down to the type of LED, that is where the difference comes into play the most. Not so much the way the LED is implemented, although that can certainly have a difference too.

 

One of the main advantages of a Quantum Board over a COB is the source of light. With a COB (or even an HID - be it CMH, MH or HPS) is that there is a single source of light. One light bulb / one LED. A Quantum Board has multiple light sources, the QB's I use have 288 LED's (some a few more) per Quantum boards and in my flower tent I am currently running 4.

So that is 1152 LED's in total, 1152 sources of light. This makes a big difference.

A simple example is to imagine yourself standing in a room, with 1 light infront of you. Now behind you there will be a shadow. If you add a 2nd light behind you, the shadow isn't as noticeable. It is heavily reduce and will vary depending on the position of the light. 

 

When it comes to LED's, the biggest factor in performance still comes down to the LED itself. A car is a car, it gets you places. Some will just do so quicker and with more comfort than others. The same rings true for LED's, an LED is an LED in the sense that they will both produce light although the amount of light which is produced will differ along with how much of that light the plants can actually make use of. The second part being the most important, one cannot judge an LED grow light just based on how much light it actually outputs, the plants need to be able to make use of the light.

[CreX]

10 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

So once again, a COB a type of LED, Chip on Board. End of the day, the actual type of LED in place on the COB will ultimately determine the performance.

 

Let's use cars as an example, think of COB as a hatch back and a Quantum Board as a sedan.

There are many different hatch backs and sedans. Now think of comparing a Hyundai i10 (a certain type of COB) to an Audi RS3 (another type of COB). Both are hatchback cars but the RS3 has way more power than the i10.

The same applies to Quantum boards, compare a Honda Civic Sedan to a BMW M3 - both are sedans (Quantum Boards) but once again the M3 has way more power.

 

It really comes down to the type of LED, that is where the difference comes into play the most. Not so much the way the LED is implemented, although that can certainly have a difference too.

 

One of the main advantages of a Quantum Board over a COB is the source of light. With a COB (or even an HID - be it CMH, MH or HPS) is that there is a single source of light. One light bulb / one LED. A Quantum Board has multiple light sources, the QB's I use have 288 LED's (some a few more) per Quantum boards and in my flower tent I am currently running 4.

So that is 1152 LED's in total, 1152 sources of light. This makes a big difference.

A simple example is to imagine yourself standing in a room, with 1 light infront of you. Now behind you there will be a shadow. If you add a 2nd light behind you, the shadow isn't as noticeable. It is heavily reduce and will vary depending on the position of the light. 

 

When it comes to LED's, the biggest factor in performance still comes down to the LED itself. A car is a car, it gets you places. Some will just do so quicker and with more comfort than others. The same rings true for LED's, an LED is an LED in the sense that they will both produce light although the amount of light which is produced will differ along with how much of that light the plants can actually make use of. The second part being the most important, one cannot judge an LED grow light just based on how much light it actually outputs, the plants need to be able to make use of the light.

Bliksim... Take notes boys and girls

[MentalYeti]

Wow. That's a decent way of explaining it. Thanks.
Now a question
Can I replace the actual LED lights with better model lights but use the same case and power etc?


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[PsyCLown]

Wow. That's a decent way of explaining it. Thanks.
Now a question
Can I replace the actual LED lights with better model lights but use the same case and power etc?


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In theory, yes. In practice, it's a lot trickier.

Often LED's on boards are wired up in a certain way to achieve a specific voltage range.
So for example on my QB's some diodes are in series and then in parallel. My voltage is around 50v for these QB's.

Changing the diodes for different ones will change that and it may not work, plus it's going to be a lot of work.

The power supplies are set for a specific voltage and I'm not sure you'd be able to adjust the voltage on those built in power supplies.

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[SkunkPharm]

I still like cob lights. One per plant. 4 in a 1.2x1.2 area.
If you are looking for decent low price led strip light check the Futurama website. You can build a decent light for 1500.

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[Master_G]

Lol. There will always be better lights etc. 

This is a friends setup and he grows.big fat chunky buds.

Veg 150w cfl. Flower 250w cfl

Its Ugly AF. But he makes enough for him to smoke. 

I agree what pretty much everyone has said because it's all about perspective. (Like the lobster in the kitchen thought the sinking of the titanic was an absolute blessing.)

Anyway... you can grow under cfls. You can go buy 10 x 9w led lights in pnp, break them apart and make a light with that and you WILL get bud.

If you keep your environment amazing, have great genetics and feed the plant well,you will get great bud and you can do that for nearly nothing. Shit lying around can make you bud.

Stick that 1000w blurple china led in a similar little box and u see what it can do. Might not make the most glorious tight buds, but you will still get decent enough. 

PsyCLown explanation is amazing and I get what he is saying. And yes its 100% correct, yet a home build citi golf drops a m3 like it is looking for parking. 

So theres perspectives again.

The trick is in my honest opinion...What do you want?

How much do you want to spend and what are you happy with.

SCREW ELECTRICITY. Still cheaper than buying bud and legal to grow.

So grow. No matter what equipment you buy now. You're going to upgrade anyway.