The Mellow Fellow Grow Diary 3.0

[Ill_Evan]

@CleanGreen you know I'm about that DIY  unfortunately I don't live by myself and my current allocated grow space is limited to just the one tent for now. It was a bit of a discussion just to have the space I do have  but I am hoping that once this current grow is completed I can leverage some more space. Trust I'd have an Omega level grow room if it were completely up to me 

[PsyCLown]

@Ill_Evan have you given any thought as to how you will change your res and top up and such once the plant is twisted into the scrog net?

[CleanGreen]

@PsyCLown That is/was my issue... my veg plants I change easily and clean res once every two weeks. The flowering ones i do not change the res and clean it, i just leave it in place and use a hand pump to change nutes. I was paranoid about root rot but 2+ months you should get away with not cleaning it.

[Ill_Evan]

@PsyCLown my reses are small enough that I just pop the cooler top open and shift the bottom enough to form a gap to pour in new res water.

I have done two full grows with only changing the res at switch to flower, so when I do the full res change I just use a bucket the same height as my cooler boxes and pop the roots with some water in there with the cooler box lid suspended by the rim of the bucket.

@CleanGreen initially I was max paranoid about root rot but I've found that as long as the res water doesn't go above 26C and there is no light leaks into the res you should be A ok the root system develops beneficial microbacteria by itself and too frequent res changes could actually hamper these bacteria from fighting off the bad bacteria that causes root rot. Just my experience, but one cannot prevent everything all the time

[MrE]

Hope you're enjoying those QBs, your tent looks nice and spacious now!

[Ill_Evan]

Wasn't liking the new growth I was seeing from the plant on the right, plant on left is also displaying similar but less severe symptoms of "leaf clawing" as to the plant on the right.

The leaves themselves feel almost brittle in a sense, as though over-dried. 

Initial research points towards nitrogen toxicity. I've decided to flush the res and let sit in pH'd water overnight. Will add half dose of nutes tomorrow. 

[CreX]

On 11/12/2019 at 12:44 PM, Ill_Evan said:

@PsyCLown

@CleanGreen initially I was max paranoid about root rot but I've found that as long as the res water doesn't go above 26C and there is no light leaks into the res you should be A ok the root system develops beneficial microbacteria by itself and too frequent res changes could actually hamper these bacteria from fighting off the bad bacteria that causes root rot. Just my experience, but one cannot prevent everything all the time

There is some good stuff here! 

I must disagree with the root zone developing its own bacteria... That's some next level Darwinism right there haha!! 

The roots can't make bacteria... But they can feed bacteria that is introduced to the medium by dumping carbohydrates which the microbes eat. 

Hence introducing diverse teas for the root zone

 

As for your leaves, I wouldn't say it's a toxicity.. But rather a possible lockout. 

What is your ppm and pH sitting st? 

I know you have had decent success with using your res water for long, but I must say that I have seen similar growth with reses that haven't been changed in 5 weeks and longer. 

For me the sweet spot is still 4 weeks. 

If you want... You can add just some of the micro and none of the grow and bloom. That should get you till your flip date where you can dump the res and make it fresh. 

Also, have you been adding any calmag? 

To be honest, I think the plants look okay still and recovery should be swift

[Ill_Evan]

@CreX thanks for the clarification, I must've misunderstood the material I read about it while researching whether changing my res every week was necessary

Lockout I can also agree with. I think either way a res change was needed

pH was at 6.4 and ppm was at 700. Recently found out 700 ppm is 1.4 EC

You rate just micro to pH water will last me to switch? I'm willing to try it

Added Epson salts right in the beginning but I will be picking up some proper cal-mag on Tuesday and using that

[CreX]

10 hours ago, Ill_Evan said:

@CreX thanks for the clarification, I must've misunderstood the material I read about it while researching whether changing my res every week was necessary

Lockout I can also agree with. I think either way a res change was needed

pH was at 6.4 and ppm was at 700. Recently found out 700 ppm is 1.4 EC

You rate just micro to pH water will last me to switch? I'm willing to try it

Added Epson salts right in the beginning but I will be picking up some proper cal-mag on Tuesday and using that

Well, if you have already done a reschange, then I would go normal strength nutes. 

With nutriplex I follow the recipe, so I think it's 8-8-8 per 10l for plants that size.

I added about a table spoon of Epsom to 35l of water and it really makes the ppm spike! I would maybe go in at 200ppm over and above your nute ppm, which should be around 350.

Also add EMProSoil and pH to 5.5, and let it drift to 6.4. 

Do you let your tap water sit for a while before you use it? 

[greenkush]

Agree with @CreX its text book lock out and high pH.

[PsyCLown]

For interest sake, has / done anyone add a bit o Hydrogen Peroxide to their res on occasion?

This is probably more for the guys that like to try keep their res sterile and avoid teas and microbes.

[CleanGreen]

@PsyCLown I used to add 6ml to 20l of water every week with nutes change. Not sure if it did anything but this round I am doing without, so far so good.

[greenkush]

@CleanGreen What % is the hydrogen peroxide?

[CleanGreen]

@greenkush 50% lol

[Ill_Evan]

8 hours ago, CreX said:

Well, if you have already done a reschange, then I would go normal strength nutes. 

With nutriplex I follow the recipe, so I think it's 8-8-8 per 10l for plants that size.

I added about a table spoon of Epsom to 35l of water and it really makes the ppm spike! I would maybe go in at 200ppm over and above your nute ppm, which should be around 350.

Also add EMProSoil and pH to 5.5, and let it drift to 6.4. 

Do you let your tap water sit for a while before you use it? 

Awe kewl, so if I had kept the res as is I could've just added micro, but since I've done a res change I'm going to start on just below the recommended dosage and treat that as the max. So for my 7.5 litre res each I am going to add 4ml of Nutriplex micro, gro and bloom. That should keep it just below max dosage. 

I do keep my water overnight before adding to the res, but when I did the res change now I just filled them straight from the hose. Had to balance the res once every few hours to get it to stabalise but it's good now. 

Awe @greenkush. I initially thought nitrogen toxicity but the way I've been adding nutes, lockout and high pH are the clear issues I had. I've now got a very good idea of how high a dose this particular strain can take. Second time growing this strain specifically. 

@PsyCLown hydrogen peroxide was something I read into when I first researched into DWC, but I decided that if I could manage the res water well enough I could avoid having to use it and since the coming of @CreX and his ultimate knowledge on teas I am now convinced one does not really need it unless in a root rot emergency. I think if you add the right bacterias to your res you can avoid the majority of the nasties. 

[1000Hills Nursery]

20 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

Awe kewl, so if I had kept the res as is I could've just added micro, but since I've done a res change I'm going to start on just below the recommended dosage and treat that as the max. So for my 7.5 litre res each I am going to add 4ml of Nutriplex micro, gro and bloom. That should keep it just below max dosage. 

I do keep my water overnight before adding to the res, but when I did the res change now I just filled them straight from the hose. Had to balance the res once every few hours to get it to stabalise but it's good now. 

Awe @greenkush. I initially thought nitrogen toxicity but the way I've been adding nutes, lockout and high pH are the clear issues I had. I've now got a very good idea of how high a dose this particular strain can take. Second time growing this strain specifically. 

@PsyCLown hydrogen peroxide was something I read into when I first researched into DWC, but I decided that if I could manage the res water well enough I could avoid having to use it and since the coming of @CreX and his ultimate knowledge on teas I am now convinced one does not really need it unless in a root rot emergency. I think if you add the right bacterias to your res you can avoid the majority of the nasties. 

Changing the res was the correct response to your issue. You fixed 2 issues... too high Ph and unbalanced toxic nutrient ratios. I've mentioned this before and I know you have taken plants to harvest without doing this but it's best to change your res weekly for a few reasons but mainly because if you just top up you are changing the npk ratio in the res because you have no idea what your plants have eaten and what's left behind. Now you topping up with fresh nutes so what you actually doing is adding extra of what the plant is not eating a lot of. Eventually as the weeks go by you sitting with a solution that's all locked out. Especially calcium and phosphorus. Big cultivation centres have to equipment to measure what's in the water and are able to top up with only what's needed.

And don't just feed your plants micro. That will cause BIG deficiencies. Everything needs a balance. One thing I can tell you is your nutrient strength was not too high. There are no signs of nute burn and nute burn doesn't initially cause leaves to droop.

Please don't get me wrong I'm not telling you what to do or questioning your growing skills cos I know you can grow just by the advice you give others. I myself have joined this forum to broaden my knowledge and to have people to talk to about my favorite past time. I hope this comes across as humble as it's meant to be.

All the best brothers and happy growing...

[Ill_Evan]

4 minutes ago, Mambawana said:

Changing the res was the correct response to your issue. You fixed 2 issues... too high Ph and unbalanced toxic nutrient ratios. I've mentioned this before and I know you have taken plants to harvest without doing this but it's best to change your res weekly for a few reasons but mainly because if you just top up you are changing the npk ratio in the res because you have no idea what your plants have eaten and what's left behind. Now you topping up with fresh nutes so what you actually doing is adding extra of what the plant is not eating a lot of. Eventually as the weeks go by you sitting with a solution that's all locked out. Especially calcium and phosphorus. Big cultivation centres have to equipment to measure what's in the water and are able to top up with only what's needed.

And don't just feed your plants micro. That will cause BIG deficiencies. Everything needs a balance. One thing I can tell you is your nutrient strength was not too high. There are no signs of nute burn and nute burn doesn't initially cause leaves to droop.

Please don't get me wrong I'm not telling you what to do or questioning your growing skills cos I know you can grow just by the advice you give others. I myself have joined this forum to broaden my knowledge and to have people to talk to about my favorite past time. I hope this comes across as humble as it's meant to be.

All the best brothers and happy growing...

After a good amount of time now with growing with DWC I am beginning to see that changing the res is beneficial if not essential. I am going to experiment with more occasional res changes and note the results. 

I may have gotten very lucky up until now 

Keep the suggestions coming my dude  we are here to share and learn. 

[CleanGreen]

@Ill_Evan Ive had no more PH issues, guess I am back to reservoir change every week. Defs agree with @Mambawana  you dont know what your plants have consumed, plus I think in my case the water looses ph stability in the 2nd week, Ive read once that CT water comes from runoff in limestone rich catchment areas.

[Ill_Evan]

Rate the plants are looking peachy

Just added in the nutes, some EM Pro Soil and Cal Mag. Going to let them continue to do their thing and update as they go

pH 5.5, 400ppm, 3/4 strength nutes

Lefty

Righty

[greenkush]

Your plants are being starved 400ppm for that growth is nothing, also do yourself a favor and get an EC pen, PPM is so 1995.

[Ill_Evan]

14 minutes ago, greenkush said:

Your plants are being starved 400ppm for that growth is nothing, also do yourself a favor and get an EC pen, PPM is so 1995.

@CreX rates even 350ppm is aight. Plus it's just short of the recommended dosage by Nutriplex. If not, I'll wait and let my plants tell me they need more nutes.

Ppm might be 1995, but quick maths is 2019. 400 ppm is 0.8 EC according to the manufacturer of my EC pen.

[greenkush]

Just now, Ill_Evan said:

@CreX rates even 350ppm is aight. Plus it's just short of the recommended dosage by Nutriplex. If not, I'll wait and let my plants tell me they need more nutes.

Ppm might be 1995, but quick maths is 2019. 400 ppm is 0.8 EC according to the manufacturer of my EC pen.

You know that the temperature of your solution changes your EC, did you factor that into you 2019 quick maths. 

[Ill_Evan]

17 minutes ago, greenkush said:

You know that the temperature of your solution changes your EC, did you factor that into you 2019 quick maths. 

This is the meter I have:

https://gthydro.co.za/products/584-ec-meter-ap2.html

It supposedly factors in temperature then displays a reading in ppm.

Measurement comes out as 400.

400x2/1000=0.8EC according to the ratio which this specific pen uses which is ppm500/TDS therefore 0.50 conversion ratio.

..."due to the fact that various meter manufacturers choose to calculate ppm using differing ratios.  To derive the ppm value on these meters, EC is first measured, then multiplied by a particular ratio to yield a value for ppm.  Much of the U.S. will experience a 0.50 conversion ratio, whereas many other parts of the world utilize a 0.64 and even 0.70 conversion ratio." -https://dutchmasternutrients.com/growers-guide/ppm-vs-ec/

I also found this chart that gives a good range of reference at a glance:

https://www.getbluelab.com/Resource+Library/Conductivity.html

What EC would you recommend though?

[greenkush]

EC is purely based on the recommendation of the nutrient maker.

Haifa veg is 1.1, flower is 1.8

Green house ranges by week

Your mileage will vary.

[Ill_Evan]

8 minutes ago, greenkush said:

EC is purely based on the recommendation of the nutrient maker.

Haifa veg is 1.1, flower is 1.8

Green house ranges by week

Your mileage will vary.

I got this chart from Nutriplex:

It recommends 8ml per 10l of each formula while still in veg.

But it also suggests an EC between 1.5-2.2 in growth.

What I find is that when I apply the recommended dosage of 8ml per 10l I don't get near the suggested EC.

I think you may have a point, maybe I've read it wrong and the 8ml per 10l dose is just for the initial week of veg and then you increase the dose until you hit the recommended EC.