When is it no longer organic?

[PsyCLown]

So this is something I have been wondering about for a while, at which point does a grow stop being classified as "organic"?

 

I think we can all agree that if growing in some living organic soil and watering with organic nutes, you are growing organically - right?

Now a lot of people use chemicals as part of their grow in various ways, at which point is it no longer classified as being organic?

 

When you start using PH up / PH down in your nute mixes?

When you start using CalMag?

Perhaps when you use a bloom booster which is not organic - majority are not from what I have noticed.

What about if you use coco / perlite instead of soil?

What if you are growing in organic, living soil but feed with synthetic / powder nutes?

Perhaps you use a product like florakleen to help flush?

Perhaps you use a combination of organic nutes and synthetic / powder nutes?

 

Share your opinion at where you would draw the line.

[Smelly Joe]

Geez that's a topic that got me thinking. I used to make use of chemical fertilizer when I started growing. Mainly due to the misguided info that was out there. And to go organic you had to have space to make compost and tea and it will not work if you live in a block of flats etc etc. So as I grew I started googling and asking questions to point where I pissed people off but at the end of the day, it comes down to what works for you and gets you you desired results.......

I use organic nutrients and my soil is from FF. I belive that as long as you feed you soil with things that is plants based your fine and on the organic route.....but what if those vegetable extract for the bio bloom is made from half non-organic fruits and veggies, then it becomes quite technical.

I guess there will be a lot of different answers but you need to do your homework and stay alert when buying products. There are some products out there that states they are environmentally friendly but still end up being chemicals...... Phyta from bio grow is like that if I'm not mistaken. I bought it back in 2014 as a organic supplement but the liquid inside was bright blue... There used to be a sticker on the bottom that said "organic" but a few months after that those stickers were removed / covered up. Stuff worked like a bomb but didn't use it for to long due to finding out its chemical..

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[PsyCLown]

Well I'm going to be giving synthetic nutes a go now to see how it compares.
Although I've got my living organic soil which I'm still using for now.
I'm not worried about being 100% organic right now.

I'm more curious as to how much wiggle room everyone feels is acceptable before a grow should no longer be classified as organic?

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[Stinger96]

https://www.leafly.com/news/growing/growing-organic-cannabis

[PsyCLown]

One can have microbes and use synthetic nutes.

 

I feel that when people think of organic, they think of soil - however you can use soil and have nothing else organic in your grow.

On the flip side, you can do hydro or grow with coco / perlite and use organic nutes and feed with teas and have tons of microbes - it may not be the most ideal environment due to the lack of organic matter to break down however it is possible and there are people who do this.

 

@Ssomeguy you feel an indoor grow is not organic, I assume considering the environment?

[Dank]

SynthGanics bro!  

8 hours ago, Ssomeguy said:

Well to me it is more of a, how natural and unprocessed are these chemicals, and how were they sourced and such. A lot of organic stuff is actually non-organically labelled due to higher concentrations. Probably would kill microbes if not diluted well.

This probably the best argument i think.

Everything is hype and marketing nowadays inmo.

Finish em off good and cure em well, synthganics my bros. 

I would also add, most "famous" nutrients seem to give a certain aroma/taste to the weed (even flushed well), I believe they add flavour enhancers to a lot of these products. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Dank
Edits

[Ill_Evan]

I think the use of an indoor environment can still be considered in the realm of organic, depending on the organic nature of the medium and nutrients used, however not natural as @Ssomeguy suggests.

How far could the argument of 'natural' be stretched? It could be argued that there exists no natural cannabis apart from landrace strains untouched by human intervention. 

But I think in this thread it is suggested that natural is considered as using the sun, soil and organic nutrients.

Organic on the other hand is suggested to be considered how synthetic or processed one's medium or nutrients are. I think when MH or HPS bulbs are considered they should be considered on more the organic than the synthetic side as it is the combustion of gases within the bulb which emits the light, somewhat as similar as how our own sun emits light on a grander scale.

A curve ball question then could be asked; how organic are LED lights in the context of this conversation? Should the organic nature of the lighting system even be considered at all in the objective description of how organic one's grow is?

[PsyCLown]

Hahaha, geez ok. This thread has taken more of a turn than I expected.

 

Bringing lights into the equation. The way I see it is that I would classify lighting more as "natural" or "unnatural" as opposed to organic or inorganic.

@Ill_Evan I agree that organic would refer to more the nutrients and such, thinking about it now most mediums are natural (soil, coco, water) although maybe not organic per say. Such as the coco could have been grown using synthetic nutes.

@Dank which brands? Curious to find out about this.

 

In my mind I feel organic vs "non-organic" (not inorganic), is more about the nutrients which one gives their plants.

However as mentioned originally, often there will be synthetic nutes used at some point in the grow, even if its just for supplementation.

 

People stating organic bud is tastier, well, at what point does it get affected? When changing nutes? What if you go half / half with BioBizz and Greenhouse Powder Feeds for example?

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but reading on this forum and watching YouTube grow videos of people overseas. There seems to be a "hype" of sorts about "organic" cannabis. People using soil specifically and then top feeding with amendments which are slow release or using BioBizz nutes or trying to male super soils so you do not need to add anything else.

 

Then you ask yourself, what is the actual benefit? Why is it done like this and the answer I have always found is that organic bud "tastes better".

Although at the same time I was thinking about these Grow off competitions - I love them, think its a great idea and I have enjoyed participating in it. The one category is for the best organic grow. How far could one push it before your grow is no longer classified as organic?

 

I feel for a grow to be fully organic, it's not going to be easy to achieve. Not indoors at least. Perhaps more so outdoors.

[Dank]

@PsyCLown products like Terpinator, BudCandy, Ripen, etc and I'm sure TopMax most likely also uses some sort of flavor enhancers. Just to clarify I did not mean it leaves a bad taste in the bud, most OG growers can tell you, depending who grew it with what, it'll have its own distinct taste.

[Ill_Evan]

Awesome replies ✌ agreed on lighting being more associated to the nature of a grow and not within the realm of organic/non-organic. 

Here's another question; is bud grown with organic products "healthier" for you? Taste aside, if your feed is overly synthetic, can that translate over to your body in a negative way? 

[greenkush]

Stop buying into bullshit organic hype, nitrogen is nitrogen, potassium is potassium.

[Totemic]

Agreed. Organic or inorganic nutrients have to be identical for the plant to use it. Organics just needs an extra step as microbes need to eat it convert it and then shit it out for the plant. No3-, K+, and PO4-, SO4 2-, all the same ions no matter where they originate 

 

[PsyCLown]

Awesome replies agreed on lighting being more associated to the nature of a grow and not within the realm of organic/non-organic. 
Here's another question; is bud grown with organic products "healthier" for you? Taste aside, if your feed is overly synthetic, can that translate over to your body in a negative way? 

Considering the food we eat, I don't think it makes much of a difference.

Although I guess we smoke bud and don't eat it, but doubt it.

Tobacco industry don't flush, do they?

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[Breadinator]

Considering how garbage somethings are that people consider food. 
Sure chemicals are chemicals. If someone fucked shit up to get it. I don't want it, that's what I mean by how it is sourced and shit. And this is why I use things that are lying around. If I can't make conditions ideal, then I'm not God. Go figure.

Checked a few clips on veganic growing, and the guy was talking about sustainable growing and how some of the products we use for organic growing does more harm to the environment than the synthetic counterparts. Stuff like rock phosphate that needs to be mined.

[Breadinator]

Stop buying into bullshit organic hype, nitrogen is nitrogen, potassium is potassium.

I agree, I haven't tasted the difference between organic and synthetic, be it cannabis or any other commodity. As you said, nitrogen is nitrogen to the plant. I don't believe organic will improve your crop. A lot of commercial fruit farmers only do it for the financial benefit and their yield is often less than conventional.

Organic farming is supposed to be about the environment.

[The_StonedTrooper]

Thought I'd disturb an old thread, give it a little stirring. 

It's my understanding and believe proven by science, that even the Synthetic nutrients as we call them, are basically 2 ion / molecules that attach or bound to each other to make a salt, such as Magnesium Sulfate, which is Magnesium and Sulfur, both which again are found in nature, organically.

The trick comes in where if you provide the soil, and I say soil, as it would be living and teaming with Microbes, with these already ready minerals being provided to the living soil, you in effect are cutting out the middle man, the Microbes, and they go on holiday and or die.

Key is to feed the Microbes, a good diet so they work for you, and feed your plant.

Otherwise you end up with dirt.

Edited May 29, 2020 by StickyD420