Loadshedding and Lighting Schedules

[Dank]

9 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

Which timers do you use? The analogue ones?

I have the digital ones and they do not get affected by loadshedding / power cuts.

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Yeh I have a small veg box with one of those old timer timers  

Thanks @PsyCLown , i'll remember that, perhaps upgrade at some point, I've been thinking about a small solar setup for my vegbox, just have to save up some buckaroos. Solar seems to be getting cheaper, but might also run a few LED's off a kind of battery system you find in 4x4's (when camping etc), but needs a deepcycle battery I think, also pricey, then back thinking bout solar. 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Dank

[PsyCLown]

22 minutes ago, Dank said:

Yeh I have a small veg box with one of those old timer timers  

Thanks @PsyCLown , i'll remember that, perhaps upgrade at some point, I've been thinking about a small solar setup for my vegbox, just have to save up some buckaroos. Solar seems to be getting cheaper, but might also run a few LED's off a kind of battery system you find in 4x4's (when camping etc), but needs a deepcycle battery I think, also pricey, then back thinking bout solar. 

 

Yeah, I assume the digital timers have a small battery inside which keeps it on and saves the settings if you unplug it / if its loses power for a bit.

 

Regarding solar and batteries, the batteries are generally the bigger issue I think as they are not cheap and they have a limited lifespan.

I always hear people talking about solar and companies too, the ones who sell you the equipment and try ensure you make a saving etc although I never hear them talk about the batteries and their lifespan and the fact that one has to replace them.

On average batteries have a lifespan of 3 - 7 years, depending on the use and the type of battery. Let's work on 5 years as an average.

A single 100AH 12v battery would allow you to draw upto 600W from it roughly before it wold need to be charged again. So if you are running 200W of lighting (actual draw from the wall) you would get at most 3 hours of use out of a single 600W battery. So to cover 18 hours without any charge / power would require 6x 100AH batteries.

200W for 18 hours is 3.6 KWH per day and 1 314KWH per year which equates to R2 102 per year at a rate of R1.60 per KWH.

You'd be hard pressed to find a 100AH 12v battery for under R2500, around this price point they tend to be the flooded batteries which lean more towards the 3  year lifespan.

 

So 6 batteries at R2500 = R15k

200W per day for a year = R2 102, for 5 years its R10k

That excludes the solar panels and other equipment, although this does assume you want a system which can power your lights for a full 18 hours without any charge and mains power. I am no solar expert though. You could probably get away with fewer batteries too - although not sure how much charge one would get if you have over a week of rain and clouds like we did in Gauteng recently.

Also the above is just a mere 200W being drawn. With the inefficiencies of the LED driver and the inverter you are probably looking at an actual output of 170W.

Edited December 13, 2019 by PsyCLown

[CreX]

On 12/11/2019 at 4:28 PM, CleanGreen said:

@Ill_Evan Meh I wen through this last year and at the beginning of the year, it gave me sleepless nights. But remember when you start flowering the transitional stage is about 10-14 days. Also plants outdoor don't receive 18hrs direct sunlight. The only girls i move to sunlight is the clones.... The oxygen in the water..... once I forgot to turn it on for a week in mid summer,  nothing happened!   Ill start stressing when load shitting carries on for more as a week at stage 6. 

I dono about the nothing happened part... 

I had an outdoor hydro... It was the most amazing growing iv ever seen... 

But it's pumps were connected to my Bloom room... And I turned off my Bloom room because there were no plants in it at the time... 

I only realized after a week... But the plants were fucked... Growth halted to a standstill... No further bud development happened... Leaves started dying at a rapid rate... Eventually I just pulled them and dumped them... It was truly one of the saddest things iv ever had to go through... 

Once or twice for a few hours during a grow won't be the end of the plants... But this loadshedding is not just once or twice... If you do not have a UPS on your oxygenation devices in DWC current, and are getting loadshed, then yeilds are being affected.

[CleanGreen]

16 minutes ago, CreX said:

I dono about the nothing happened part... 

I had an outdoor hydro... It was the most amazing growing iv ever seen... 

But it's pumps were connected to my Bloom room... And I turned off my Bloom room because there were no plants in it at the time... 

I only realized after a week... But the plants were fucked... Growth halted to a standstill... No further bud development happened... Leaves started dying at a rapid rate... Eventually I just pulled them and dumped them... It was truly one of the saddest things iv ever had to go through... 

Once or twice for a few hours during a grow won't be the end of the plants... But this loadshedding is not just once or twice... If you do not have a UPS on your oxygenation devices in DWC current, and are getting loadshed, then yeilds are being affected.

@CreX Sorry for that past loss man. I dont want to argue about the importance of Oxygen in water since no one here can measure the amount of it.  But there is the Kratky method that uses no air/water pump and they grow beautiful tomatoes, even some guys grow dagga this way. I have put my clones in still water no added air and ALL my clones grow roots. I think the plants can survive on way less than what we think is needed, maybe a bigger issue is with anaerobic bacteria!?

[1000Hills Nursery]

Battery operated aquarium air pump and candles is what I use to use in dwc. You gonna chance not running air in your buckets, that's like playing Russian roulette with root rot. 

My cousin is big into Kratky... baby marrows, tomatoes and some general vegetables. He's forever telling me to try it. I don't think it's advisable for cannabis though unless you enjoy a challenge.

I've seen he's roots, they nothing compared to cannabis roots. Have a look for yourself and tell me if you will grow cannabis in water without air. 

Btw he also has black buckets and the insides look the same.

 

 

 

[CreX]

1 hour ago, CleanGreen said:

@CreX Sorry for that past loss man. I dont want to argue about the importance of Oxygen in water since no one here can measure the amount of it.  But there is the Kratky method that uses no air/water pump and they grow beautiful tomatoes, even some guys grow dagga this way. I have put my clones in still water no added air and ALL my clones grow roots. I think the plants can survive on way less than what we think is needed, maybe a bigger issue is with anaerobic bacteria!?

Clones are another story... I have also had large success with cuttings in just a cup of water... Which pretty much boils down to the same thing. 

My bubbler though, has bubbles not to oxygenate the water, but rather to spit water droplets onto the stems of my cuttings.. I find a greatly increased rooting speed with this method. 

[Dank]

On 12/13/2019 at 8:56 AM, PsyCLown said:

Yeah, I assume the digital timers have a small battery inside which keeps it on and saves the settings if you unplug it / if its loses power for a bit.

 

Regarding solar and batteries, the batteries are generally the bigger issue I think as they are not cheap and they have a limited lifespan.

I always hear people talking about solar and companies too, the ones who sell you the equipment and try ensure you make a saving etc although I never hear them talk about the batteries and their lifespan and the fact that one has to replace them.

On average batteries have a lifespan of 3 - 7 years, depending on the use and the type of battery. Let's work on 5 years as an average.

A single 100AH 12v battery would allow you to draw upto 600W from it roughly before it wold need to be charged again. So if you are running 200W of lighting (actual draw from the wall) you would get at most 3 hours of use out of a single 600W battery. So to cover 18 hours without any charge / power would require 6x 100AH batteries.

200W for 18 hours is 3.6 KWH per day and 1 314KWH per year which equates to R2 102 per year at a rate of R1.60 per KWH.

You'd be hard pressed to find a 100AH 12v battery for under R2500, around this price point they tend to be the flooded batteries which lean more towards the 3  year lifespan.

 

So 6 batteries at R2500 = R15k

200W per day for a year = R2 102, for 5 years its R10k

That excludes the solar panels and other equipment, although this does assume you want a system which can power your lights for a full 18 hours without any charge and mains power. I am no solar expert though. You could probably get away with fewer batteries too - although not sure how much charge one would get if you have over a week of rain and clouds like we did in Gauteng recently.

Also the above is just a mere 200W being drawn. With the inefficiencies of the LED driver and the inverter you are probably looking at an actual output of 170W.

Thanks a lot for that informative answer @PsyCLown , will have to give you a shout when I decide to get a small setup! Ideally for now the setup will just kick with load shedding situations, I assume that at night the batteries will get depleted a lot faster than when they have sunshine on the panels?

Pretty big layout, but will save up slowly for some solar and perhaps a small windturbine.

[highchome]

4 hours ago, Dank said:

Pretty big layout, but will save up slowly for some solar and perhaps a small windturbine.

I'm late to the conversation here. But you also need to check the type of battery (probably lead-acid deep-cycle), how many cycles you will get and how to avoid running it flat (deep discharge). Some people don't let their batteries go below 40% to prolong their lifespan (no idea if that is a valid plan) and that would mean even more capacity required if you do the same. I've seen a few people talking about setting up systems for their houses and it does seems like you need to be careful you are not misled as @PsyCLown was saying.

[PsyCLown]

My above calculations were based on a 50% discharge to help prolong battery life. I wouldn't want to drain a battery further than that.

Generally the inverter will manage it though, the smart ones shouldn't drain past 50% I believe.

Draining a battery past a certain point speeds up the deterioration of the battery and will therefore shorter the lifespan - as well as leaving it discharged.
I know with the lithium batteries, leaving it fully charged also puts extra strain on it and will reduce the batteries lifespan... This is why electronic devices such as phones are never sold with fully charged batteries.

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[Dank]

Thanks a lot for the advice @PsyCLown and @highchome I didn't know all this (makes a lot of sense), also heard about some horror stories about so called "solar experts" basically wasting peoples hard earn monies, pays to learn about these things before hand.

Thanks again guys, I appreciate it 

[KushNewbie]

On 12/9/2019 at 7:57 PM, GGG said:

I already started seeing nanners tonight...... 

 

Nanners are a real thing with loadshedding my guy, I know...

 

Do you guys prefer UPS or generators... Say for around 2500W, to keep lights and fans going while loadshedding happens (so for around 2,5 hours)?

[PsyCLown]

Nanners are a real thing with loadshedding my guy, I know...
 
Do you guys prefer UPS or generators... Say for around 2500W, to keep lights and fans going while loadshedding happens (so for around 2,5 hours)?

2.5kw on a UPS doesn't make sense really... Generator would be Waaaay cheaper it's not even funny.

2.5kw per hour for 2.5 hours? It's stupid how many batteries you'll need and so forth.

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[KushNewbie]

4 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

2.5kw on a UPS doesn't make sense really... Generator would be Waaaay cheaper it's not even funny.

2.5kw per hour for 2.5 hours? It's stupid how many batteries you'll need and so forth.

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I see, alright appreciate the input!

[CreX]

My dad bought a 5.5kw geni and it runs the entire house, geyser, kettle, entertainment... Everything 

But if you have a flat or an apartment... You can't wham your geni on lol, UPS would be the way to go in that case

[PsyCLown]

My dad bought a 5.5kw geni and it runs the entire house, geyser, kettle, entertainment... Everything 
But if you have a flat or an apartment... You can't wham your geni on lol, UPS would be the way to go in that case

If I needed to draw 2.5kw and was in a flat... Fuck that! I'd run a generator. Would cost a fraction of the price - invite the neighbours over for a movie and then they won't care about the noise from the genny.

You can get a decent genny for under R10k new when I last checked.

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[CreX]

4 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

If I needed to draw 2.5kw and was in a flat... Fuck that! I'd run a generator. Would cost a fraction of the price - invite the neighbours over for a movie and then they won't care about the noise from the genny.

You can get a decent genny for under R10k new when I last checked.

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LOL I hear you... Generators are the way

Fossil feul is still king for now

You could get a training bike attached to a motor and the force of your own body can propel your household!! 

Sommer get one of those tandem bikes so the whole family can join

[Breadinator]

Did I quick web search and seems like artificial light is able to charge solar panels (Don't know how efficient)

So you could possibly get one of these


Which has a day/night sensor, can also add a solar powered airpump and diy it to the day/night sensor of the light?

[PsyCLown]

On 1/5/2020 at 4:07 PM, CreX said:

LOL I hear you... Generators are the way

Fossil feul is still king for now

You could get a training bike attached to a motor and the force of your own body can propel your household!! 

Sommer get one of those tandem bikes so the whole family can join

Hahaha, tandem bike for the whole family.

 

I watched a documentary thing on Youtube the other night about CO2 being extracted from the air and being turned into a fuel which can be used in cars and bikes and so forth and basically ends up with a carbon neutral output (so not adding more CO2 to our environment / atmosphere).

Rather use that to power a generator if possible, although still relatively new and only one of the solutions to try and lower CO2 and stop global warming.

[PsyCLown]

3 hours ago, Breadinator said:

Did I quick web search and seems like artificial light is able to charge solar panels (Don't know how efficient)

So you could possibly get one of these


Which has a day/night sensor, can also add a solar powered airpump and diy it to the day/night sensor of the light?

Using an artificial light to get power from a solar panel is a silly idea as you would end up losing power due to the inefficiencies.

Although using a solar powered light to help your plants out during load shedding could work - Makro sell those LED lights which are battery powered for like R199. Magneto or something like that, not sure how well they work but that is another option too if the sun ain't shining - if its overcast or at night.

[1000Hills Nursery]

6 hours ago, Breadinator said:

Did I quick web search and seems like artificial light is able to charge solar panels (Don't know how efficient)

So you could possibly get one of these


Which has a day/night sensor, can also add a solar powered airpump and diy it to the day/night sensor of the light?

In my opinion that would work keeping light schedules on track. Especially if load shedding is happening in the middle of lights on. I'm pretty certain plants will fall asleep within that 2 hour outage and will have to wake up again when the power is back and then fall asleep again when the 12 hour cycle is complete. I don't know what negative effects this would have nor do I want to find out.

I don't see any inefficiencies as the solar panel will receive light to charge up from your existing grow lights(if that's indeed possible) that have to be on for your plants anyway. Nice and simple to keep plants awake, as very little light is needed for just that.

Next issue during load shedding... air circulation especially in mid to late flower???

[PsyCLown]

Ahh, I think I misunderstood. So keeping everything inside the tent and using the light to charge the battery once load shedding has come to an end?

 

For air circulation, a UPS would probably work pretty well. Although it may be recommended to get one with a pure sine wave if your fan runs off AC mains and not DC.

Not sure one would be able to add an airpump to it, would depend on the output voltage. I assume the solar panel or light has a battery, most likely the light.

 

It may be easier to simply get a UPS and have a cheap LED bulb inside the tent (or two or 3 if you have a large tent) and have them setup to your timers.

You can connect the airpump and extraction fans to the UPS as well. This way the cheap LED lights can run during lights on (9w isn't going to make a big difference in your grow - otherwise one could get the light sensing bulbs with a day/night switch) and if it's lights on time and the power goes off, the UPS kicks in and keeps the lights going as per your regular cycle (be it 12/12, 18/6 or whatever).

Your extraction fans will keep running too and your airpump as they're all connected to the UPS. The extraction fans probably use the most power, my AC Infinity 6" fans are pretty efficient at around 40W at max power and I run them on setting 6 out of 10 currently. LED light can be 9W and airpump is like 5 or 6W for a dual outlet pump.

So if I am not running my extraction fan on full, let's say it'll use roughly 25W, then with the LED and airpump comes to 40W in total per hour.

So you'd need a 7ah battery to run everything for an hour, if you have a UPS which has 2x 7ah batteries in parallel that'll work for 2 hours roughly.

Or simply purchase a larger battery if need be or multiple 7ah batteries and connect them in parallel.

 

The UPS can always be re-purposed later on if need be.