Looking for African Landrace Strains

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

hahah this "looking for those old school strains" is a never ending thing in this cannabis community, and I really can't wrap my head around it. SO MANY factors come into play. everything changes. even the nature of things change when given enough time and this is a good thing, it's growth, we need to grow and allow things and ourselves to change.

the big deal when it comes to looking for a certain strain. you have to know what you looking for hey golden key

this is a big contribution to my notion that many classic strains people are looking for are gone, because people don't even really know what exactly they looking for. then they find something with that name, make a purchase and the best among the batch will be labled "the real deal" when in reality the closest you will get is just something slightly similar. this is causing further confusion and people who go around claiming they have the real deal because it's got the same name is really shouldn't be doing that.

I see labling a strain with a old school name as a marketing tactic used because of the hype around old school strains. there was a video posted on here not too long ago explaining genetic plasticity, going deep into physiological morphology based on response to unique environments and human intervention. saying you're hunting a old school strain and expecting it to be like the "real deal from the 70's" is like saying you looking for an ancestor of yours that looks, speaks, acts, smells, has the same blood type and exact same evrything as you. which is just a wild thing to say.......... 

I would love to know from some of these old school hunters on the forum, is the weed of today not good enough for you or what's the reason for clinging to the past? I am willing to bet that the strains you guys are looking for, or shall I rather say the "profiles" you guys are looking for are right under your noses, it's just got a new name... 

Is it just the name you guys are looking for and the ability to say "hey mate, I got a jar of the real deal old school original shit from the 70's". or are you guys for real hunting those strains? cz you gotta be a real big time grower to be doing a real hunt like that. I am sure most of you guys are familiar with Arjan Roskam and the strainhunter show? You can't just grow 100 plants in your back yard and call it a strain hunt. You'll need to be able to have a grow setup in every second corner of the world and I mean mountain side grows of a couple acres, you have to be able to travel the world and do insane amounts of research to be doing a hunt like that....

otherwise you're just looking for a strain with a old school name and of that there is a litteral TON out there. every seed bank offers some or other "original".

✌

[Totemic]

4 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

hahah this "looking for those old school strains" is a never ending thing in this cannabis community, and I really can't wrap my head around it. SO MANY factors come into play. everything changes. even the nature of things change when given enough time and this is a good thing, it's growth, we need to grow and allow things and ourselves to change.

the big deal when it comes to looking for a certain strain. you have to know what you looking for hey golden key

this is a big contribution to my notion that many classic strains people are looking for are gone, because people don't even really know what exactly they looking for. then they find something with that name, make a purchase and the best among the batch will be labled "the real deal" when in reality the closest you will get is just something slightly similar. this is causing further confusion and people who go around claiming they have the real deal because it's got the same name is really shouldn't be doing that.

I see labling a strain with a old school name as a marketing tactic used because of the hype around old school strains. there was a video posted on here not too long ago explaining genetic plasticity, going deep into physiological morphology based on response to unique environments and human intervention. saying you're hunting a old school strain and expecting it to be like the "real deal from the 70's" is like saying you looking for an ancestor of yours that looks, speaks, acts, smells, has the same blood type and exact same evrything as you. which is just a wild thing to say.......... 

I would love to know from some of these old school hunters on the forum, is the weed of today not good enough for you or what's the reason for clinging to the past? I am willing to bet that the strains you guys are looking for, or shall I rather say the "profiles" you guys are looking for are right under your noses, it's just got a new name... 

Is it just the name you guys are looking for and the ability to say "hey mate, I got a jar of the real deal old school original shit from the 70's". or are you guys for real hunting those strains? cz you gotta be a real big time grower to be doing a real hunt like that. I am sure most of you guys are familiar with Arjan Roskam and the strainhunter show? You can't just grow 100 plants in your back yard and call it a strain hunt. You'll need to be able to have a grow setup in every second corner of the world and I mean mountain side grows of a couple acres, you have to be able to travel the world and do insane amounts of research to be doing a hunt like that....

otherwise you're just looking for a strain with a old school name and of that there is a litteral TON out there. every seed bank offers some or other "original".

✌

Yeah man, couldn't agree more. Cannabis has evolved gloriously in the last 30 odd years, and current expressions far outperform those old landraces. 

Besides all the pressure from prohibition, populations of landrace cannabis will have gone through many many generations of genetic drift that will have completely changed them. 

 

 

[Prom]

1 hour ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

hahah this "looking for those old school strains" is a never ending thing in this cannabis community, and I really can't wrap my head around it. SO MANY factors come into play. everything changes. even the nature of things change when given enough time and this is a good thing, it's growth, we need to grow and allow things and ourselves to change.

the big deal when it comes to looking for a certain strain. you have to know what you looking for hey golden key

this is a big contribution to my notion that many classic strains people are looking for are gone, because people don't even really know what exactly they looking for. then they find something with that name, make a purchase and the best among the batch will be labled "the real deal" when in reality the closest you will get is just something slightly similar. this is causing further confusion and people who go around claiming they have the real deal because it's got the same name is really shouldn't be doing that.

I see labling a strain with a old school name as a marketing tactic used because of the hype around old school strains. there was a video posted on here not too long ago explaining genetic plasticity, going deep into physiological morphology based on response to unique environments and human intervention. saying you're hunting a old school strain and expecting it to be like the "real deal from the 70's" is like saying you looking for an ancestor of yours that looks, speaks, acts, smells, has the same blood type and exact same evrything as you. which is just a wild thing to say.......... 

I would love to know from some of these old school hunters on the forum, is the weed of today not good enough for you or what's the reason for clinging to the past? I am willing to bet that the strains you guys are looking for, or shall I rather say the "profiles" you guys are looking for are right under your noses, it's just got a new name... 

Is it just the name you guys are looking for and the ability to say "hey mate, I got a jar of the real deal old school original shit from the 70's". or are you guys for real hunting those strains? cz you gotta be a real big time grower to be doing a real hunt like that. I am sure most of you guys are familiar with Arjan Roskam and the strainhunter show? You can't just grow 100 plants in your back yard and call it a strain hunt. You'll need to be able to have a grow setup in every second corner of the world and I mean mountain side grows of a couple acres, you have to be able to travel the world and do insane amounts of research to be doing a hunt like that....

otherwise you're just looking for a strain with a old school name and of that there is a litteral TON out there. every seed bank offers some or other "original".

✌

In my case is easy.. I just want to play and try to create a Autoflower out of them. Pure fun, I don't have the space to serious develop and wash genes. Never turned a Photo into a Auto, pure curiosity and a stable Landrace should be rather simple to turn, not that I expect anything close to a high yielder, just very intense Sativa genetics in Auto form (97% Sativa, 3% Ruderalis, that area). And if the result is some what useable, use it to trade with Breeders in the US.

I personal enjoy very much the new strains and run those in my mother tent.. the Super Skunk is perhaps the oldest... "name" ^^ Not really tasting like the Super Skunk I know from 30 years ago in Amsterdam. But tasty, so, a keeper. Might rename it ^^ we started to give weed our own idea of names, when it is just nothing like the original. Last two I gave is "Fruit Bowl" and "Lithium" (two Pineapple Express hehehe)  Not that the name survives.. mothers i dumped on the compost heap  Both very potent but zero Pineapple taste.. why keep that?

What I really hate on a weed.. when it smells unbelievably good and tastes like cold socks, just nothing like the smell of the plant. I smoke em, not just smell em ^^ 

[Chris Jay]

Here a Lesotho landrace to excite you:

 

 

 

[PsyCLown]

3 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

hahah this "looking for those old school strains" is a never ending thing in this cannabis community, and I really can't wrap my head around it. SO MANY factors come into play. everything changes. even the nature of things change when given enough time and this is a good thing, it's growth, we need to grow and allow things and ourselves to change.

the big deal when it comes to looking for a certain strain. you have to know what you looking for hey golden key

this is a big contribution to my notion that many classic strains people are looking for are gone, because people don't even really know what exactly they looking for. then they find something with that name, make a purchase and the best among the batch will be labled "the real deal" when in reality the closest you will get is just something slightly similar. this is causing further confusion and people who go around claiming they have the real deal because it's got the same name is really shouldn't be doing that.

I see labling a strain with a old school name as a marketing tactic used because of the hype around old school strains. there was a video posted on here not too long ago explaining genetic plasticity, going deep into physiological morphology based on response to unique environments and human intervention. saying you're hunting a old school strain and expecting it to be like the "real deal from the 70's" is like saying you looking for an ancestor of yours that looks, speaks, acts, smells, has the same blood type and exact same evrything as you. which is just a wild thing to say.......... 

I would love to know from some of these old school hunters on the forum, is the weed of today not good enough for you or what's the reason for clinging to the past? I am willing to bet that the strains you guys are looking for, or shall I rather say the "profiles" you guys are looking for are right under your noses, it's just got a new name... 

Is it just the name you guys are looking for and the ability to say "hey mate, I got a jar of the real deal old school original shit from the 70's". or are you guys for real hunting those strains? cz you gotta be a real big time grower to be doing a real hunt like that. I am sure most of you guys are familiar with Arjan Roskam and the strainhunter show? You can't just grow 100 plants in your back yard and call it a strain hunt. You'll need to be able to have a grow setup in every second corner of the world and I mean mountain side grows of a couple acres, you have to be able to travel the world and do insane amounts of research to be doing a hunt like that....

otherwise you're just looking for a strain with a old school name and of that there is a litteral TON out there. every seed bank offers some or other "original".

✌

I agree.

 

The climate has been changing, CO2 levels would be higher now which is better for the plants.

Breeding has lead to strains which put out higher THC and more frost as well.

 

What is the appeal behind these old school strains? I know peeps like @Golden-Goose focus on a lot of the old school strains, perhaps with a bit of a modern twist.

As you said, to me it feels like a marketing thing as companies have gone and taken the status behind some popular strains and ended up with their own version of said strain, which when grown out from their seeds is nothing like the original might I add, and sell it in hopes that people will buy it based on the name and the fact that it is easily available and cheap. I feel a lot of the dutch seed guys have done this.

 

It might be nostalgia as well if there is someone from that era who use to smoke. Think that the weed was better - perhaps more potent or the terps were better or whatever the case may be. Often this is not the case though, it is a known fact that us humans are not good at remember detail accurately over a long period of time and what we recall as memories from our childhood for example can end up being quite different to what reality was as the years go on.
With weed and substances, there is also the novelty as well as set and setting which need to be taken into consideration.

The first few times you smoked weed, the effects may have been very different and I know for a fact this has happened to me. I used to get the giggles a lot and now I almost never get them when smoking. I do not feel this is the weed I am smoking now, but more the fact that the novelty has worn off.

You get a fast car, it is awesome but over time you get use to the speed and it becomes normal. Similar concept.

You may also associate smoking with some fun activities you did when you were younger, that may affect the way you recall the weed being.

Tolerance I feel can also play a role. I recently took a break from smoking for the month of August, not that I felt I had built up a big tolerance but smoking after the break, it hits a lot harder again.

Go from smoking and building up a tolerance on shitty outdoor, to smoking some good indoor and you notice the difference!

 

Landraces can be fun to play with I guess, the old school strains I can understand from a collection point of view but in terms of them being better. I do not feel that is the case and need to disagree with it.

Life goes on, things improve with time and weed has improved in multiple aspects over the past 3o+ years.

[Golden-Goose]

@PsyCLown I think you have it backwards bud. Although life is all about perspective. For me, and many others like me, the newer stuff is all about marketing/hype. Take this "elite" polypolypoly hybrid and smash it together with this other "elite" polypolypoly hybrid. Give it some bullshit desert name and then hype the hell out of it. Do this multiple times in a year, which pretty much guarantees nothing has been tested, and then sit back and watch the fanboys queue up to throw their money at you. Laugh all the way to the bank, while the market is flooded with super frosty boof that smells and tastes the same as the last super frosty boof they grew. The frostiest and possibly "prettiest" strain I've ever grown was a freak Amherst Sour Diesel. We all thought it was going to be super potent and tasty gear. It was straight rubbish. Same with a cut of DOG I had from Ripper. That one was potent as hell, but the high was muddy and although there was a hint of grape terps, there was no taste at all apart from your typical burnt hash flavour you often find on freakishly frosty gear. Are there "new school" breeders who still produce fire. Of course there are. Are they completely overshadowed by the cookie fam? In my opinion... definitely!

Think about this for a second... Golden Goose will never be one of the big banks in SA. My partner and I are well aware of this. We've even had a serious discussion about stocking things like autos and your typical hype gear to help improve sales. We haven't done it (yet) though, because then we would be completely contradicting our own mission statement. Making us hypocrites and twats. We wanted to be niche. That is probably going to bite us in the ass in the long or even medium term, as South Africa is just not a big enough market for this type of philosophy or market strategy to work. If we pack up shop, at least I will have tons of gear for my own breeding projects. That will be the silver lining I cling to. LOL!

Also, I just want to add that I doubt OSG is testing all his gear either. What I like about him, is that he is sitting on gold when it comes to hard-to-find older "elite gear". He is also an honest guy and a pleasure to work with. If you're looking for gear that has been properly tested with real fire power and that old school flavour, then look no further than Lucky Dog. Skunk VA is passionate about his chemdog genetics, and it shows. Unfortunately, his stuff is not cheap though. You pay for the work that he puts in.

Now, a logical person might surmise that progress is just that... progress. Therefore, cannabis strains in general will improve. I firmly believe that sentiment to be flawed though. Before the trend of global legalisation, or decriminalisation people had to do some serious hunting to latch on to anything special. Wether in clone form or pheno hunting through seeds. That led to it's own set of disadvantages, but one of the positives is that growers and breeders cherished what they had and the passion was real. When breeding, it was often done with clear intent on the outcome and they selectively bred towards those goals. Many of those same breeders in today's economic and social climate would probably also just smash unicorn raspberry poop to sunshine rainbow cheerio pebbles and call it a day. So it's not that their moral compass was any better. These days, demand is massive and everyone wants that new new. If you want to stay relevant, you have to pander to that demand. Making it almost impossible to breed to the standards set by the previous generation, who could afford to spend years on a breeding project to get it just right.

The Brand is the new god, and every breeder has dreams of being the next Coca-Cola.

Apologies if my post came across as hostile. I didn't read the entire thread either, so I might also be in danger of picking up stompies.

[Prom]

Would never say the weed was more potent in the good old times ^^ it wasn't...  nostalgia taste swing back, yes, but stronger.. no way.  

Just look what changed on extract tech. The oil I extracted with a freakin laboratory.. not joking, was black crap compared to the one cylinder Butane you do today and result is see through golden honey, nothing black or extremo dark green ^^. 

Landraces are the most stable strains in my book, not changed for centuries. So they also have hardly any sprinkle and potency. That you do with breeding the different genomes you want to express more. And I kinda love Sativa plants  just how they grow.

If you don't get stoned from your weed anymore, swap strains. Is this phenomenon when you go to a friend and his weed always hits you harder as your own and you think, the guy grows better weed ^^ and he thinks the same of yours.. 

A robot bush weed joint can hit you hard.. not that it tastes great but can really hit you, till you get used to it.   

 

Addon

And we don't forget Autos... is funny how all yell Photos are more potent.. but the potency record holders at Canna-Bliss and Qure.. are Autos  If I could clone Autos.. or get Auto seeds in very stable form from the strains i like, never ever would touch a Photo.. way to much trouble to get something out and the time it takes.. naaa I just Love Autoflowers.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Prom
addon

[Golden-Goose]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm certainly not proposing guys start filling their rooms with landrace strains. For me, the magic of landrace lies in their potential for breeding. 

[Khakibos]

Kevin Jodrey (@kevinjodrey) • Instagram photos and videos - I'll just leave this post from Jodrey's insta here 

[PsyCLown]

1 hour ago, Golden-Goose said:

@PsyCLown I think you have it backwards bud. Although life is all about perspective. For me, and many others like me, the newer stuff is all about marketing/hype. Take this "elite" polypolypoly hybrid and smash it together with this other "elite" polypolypoly hybrid. Give it some bullshit desert name and then hype the hell out of it. Do this multiple times in a year, which pretty much guarantees nothing has been tested, and then sit back and watch the fanboys queue up to throw their money at you. Laugh all the way to the bank, while the market is flooded with super frosty boof that smells and tastes the same as the last super frosty boof they grew. The frostiest and possibly "prettiest" strain I've ever grown was a freak Amherst Sour Diesel. We all thought it was going to be super potent and tasty gear. It was straight rubbish. Same with a cut of DOG I had from Ripper. That one was potent as hell, but the high was muddy and although there was a hint of grape terps, there was no taste at all apart from your typical burnt hash flavour you often find on freakishly frosty gear. Are there "new school" breeders who still produce fire. Of course there are. Are they completely overshadowed by the cookie fam? In my opinion... definitely!

Think about this for a second... Golden Goose will never be one of the big banks in SA. My partner and I are well aware of this. We've even had a serious discussion about stocking things like autos and your typical hype gear to help improve sales. We haven't done it (yet) though, because then we would be completely contradicting our own mission statement. Making us hypocrites and twats. We wanted to be niche. That is probably going to bite us in the ass in the long or even medium term, as South Africa is just not a big enough market for this type of philosophy or market strategy to work. If we pack up shop, at least I will have tons of gear for my own breeding projects. That will be the silver lining I cling to. LOL!

Also, I just want to add that I doubt OSG is testing all his gear either. What I like about him, is that he is sitting on gold when it comes to hard-to-find older "elite gear". He is also an honest guy and a pleasure to work with. If you're looking for gear that has been properly tested with real fire power and that old school flavour, then look no further than Lucky Dog. Skunk VA is passionate about his chemdog genetics, and it shows. Unfortunately, his stuff is not cheap though. You pay for the work that he puts in.

Now, a logical person might surmise that progress is just that... progress. Therefore, cannabis strains in general will improve. I firmly believe that sentiment to be flawed though. Before the trend of global legalisation, or decriminalisation people had to do some serious hunting to latch on to anything special. Wether in clone form or pheno hunting through seeds. That led to it's own set of disadvantages, but one of the positives is that growers and breeders cherished what they had and the passion was real. When breeding, it was often done with clear intent on the outcome and they selectively bred towards those goals. Many of those same breeders in today's economic and social climate would probably also just smash unicorn raspberry poop to sunshine rainbow cheerio pebbles and call it a day. So it's not that their moral compass was any better. These days, demand is massive and everyone wants that new new. If you want to stay relevant, you have to pander to that demand. Making it almost impossible to breed to the standards set by the previous generation, who could afford to spend years on a breeding project to get it just right.

The Brand is the new god, and every breeder has dreams of being the next Coca-Cola.

Apologies if my post came across as hostile. I didn't read the entire thread either, so I might also be in danger of picking up stompies.

I think it also comes down to what you are looking for in a strain.

 

I will agree, just because a strain puts out frost does not mean it is super potent or full of terps. I grew a bagseed plant which which put out some decent frost, infact here is a picture of it. Not on the same level as in house genetics, but for bagseed it certainly surprised me and puts out more frost than a lot of strains people are still buying, even some more expensive ones.

 

Tasted like nothing and the potency was not there. I honestly expected a lot more from it. During flower it smelt great though.

 

With a lot of the in house genetics I currently grow, frost is there but yield takes a knock. The high is very pleasant and does change between strains but the terps are very similar, especially once smoked they taste very very similar. Some are a bit different but for the most part the ones I have grown out are quite similar indeed. Potency is good too though.

 

Without a doubt In House Genetics chuck pollen, as do a lot of other popular breeders. As you said, it does feel like it is a game about pushing as many lines as possible and it works off hype. I feel Ethos are worse though as they do the exact same thing but their strains are really overhyped. They sell you on a beautiful description, sometimes include some nice pictures and what you get when you grow it out is far from what you expect. Not much special most of the time and Ethos might get lucky on one or two of their lines.

Heck even @Totemic does a bit of pollen chucking at times to get new strains out. Breeding and not releasing F1's and waiting until they are bred further is a very time consuming process. I feel a breeder does not necessarily have a choice if they want to get some of the newer strains into their mixes in a timely manner.

Is there anything wrong with pollen chucking? Well, this is perhaps another topic on it's own but it has its appeal and uses for both breeders and growers.

As a grower I do not really want to see this amazing strain and not be able to buy it for a couple of months, more realistically years.

 

As you have said, a lot of strains can seem quite similar. What has stood out from the rest is these super frosty strains. It is visual and you can clearly see and tell whether it is different and do not rely on someone else stating that the terps are amazeballs and the high lasted as long as the plant flowered for.  Compound Genetics have some, In House Genetics have some, Relentless Genetics have and others as well - unfortunately trying to get some of these strains locally is near impossible and they are often limited runs (Compound Genetics particularly), however I would expect the terps to differ a bit between these super frosty strains but unfortunately do not have much experience yet due to not being able to get said strains.

I think I may have asked this before in another thread, also don't misunderstand - I was not and am not taking a knock at Golden Goose or the strains you sell - far from it. Although the strains you guys sell are a mix of the old school stuff with some newer ones, is that correct?

What is the appeal for you behind these strains which you stock versus just the new stuff? Stuff which is put out by some of the breeders mentioned above who have become quite popular and who have put out some strains with that "next level" frost.

What is your view on some of the guys like BeLeaf who do a lot of growing and chuck pollen between two great cuts he comes across?

 

I think maybe the industry has changed with cannabis being legal in a few places and more people growing their own and people are now easily able to grow their own and share what they have and what they are growing and what they have found. They can do so legally in a lot of places as well, combined with the internet - someone finds a keeper, it is easier to share it and document it and ship it off to others to make use of.

It no longer relies on a small group of guys who grow out thousands of seeds to try find that one special plant and then trying to make the most of it.

Not as many people buying seeds or wanting to buy seeds as well, so releases could take longer I feel - not if a breeder can only release a strain after say 2 to 3 years of breeding they're going to have a limited amount of strains to offer.

Are most of the strains from your side not F1's?

[Totemic]

7 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

Heck even @Totemic does a bit of pollen chucking at times to get new strains out. Breeding and not releasing F1's and waiting until they are bred further is a very time consuming process. I feel a breeder does not necessarily have a choice if they want to get some of the newer strains into their mixes in a timely manner.

Is there anything wrong with pollen chucking? Well, this is perhaps another topic on it's own but it has its appeal and uses for both breeders and growers.

As a grower I do not really want to see this amazing strain and not be able to buy it for a couple of months, more realistically years.

Man this is the thing. What is a pollen chuck...? You could say I pollen chuck every year. Just because I spend my time selecting my males out of the lot I grow, does that mean it's not a pollen chuck?  It's experimental for me, and I create plenty of new F1s every year, trying at best to improve the next generation in one way or another depending on the traits I'd like to slam together. Sometimes it works out well. Sometimes it doesn't. 

But I also work my lines further, which is not the case with many new aspiring breeders. Im also growing out all the cuts you guys are from Inhouse, ethos, and a few others, crossing in some of my other lines to add a bit of variation in my populations to pheno hunt.

The industry is taking shape fast, and with the sheer variety of strains out there, be it a landrace, a hybrid, or a polyhybrid, at F1 or at F4, does it really matter if the result is a successful harvest of some dank? 

 

[PsyCLown]

4 minutes ago, Totemic said:

Man this is the thing. What is a pollen chuck...? You could say I pollen chuck every year. Just because I spend my time selecting my males out of the lot I grow, does that mean it's not a pollen chuck?  It's experimental for me, and I create plenty of new F1s every year, trying at best to improve the next generation in one way or another depending on the traits I'd like to slam together. Sometimes it works out well. Sometimes it doesn't. 

But I also work my lines further, which is not the case with many new aspiring breeders. Im also growing out all the cuts you guys are from Inhouse, ethos, and a few others, crossing in some of my other lines to add a bit of variation in my populations to pheno hunt.

The industry is taking shape fast, and with the sheer variety of strains out there, be it a landrace, a hybrid, or a polyhybrid, at F1 or at F4, does it really matter if the result is a successful harvest of some dank? 

 

This is true, at what point is it no longer a pollen chuck?

People take time to select specific cuts to breed together and then release as an F1, is this a pollen chuck? They sometimes pick a nice cut of a specific plant and then breed it with a variety of their existing strains - is this a pollen chuck?

 

Seeing lines past F1 is not very common now a days, it feels as breeders do not mention how far down it has been bred either and I always assume it is just an F1.

 

As you have said though, does it really matter as long as the buyer gets some awesome dank at the end and is happy with their purchase.

Everyone is looking for different aspects in their bud and strains they choose. Variety is always nice as well.

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

well, a landrace and a popular old school strain is not the same thing. let's focus on the topic at hand here, popular old school strains.

I feel since that "polypolypoly hybrid smashed with a polypolypoly hybrid" thing was mentioned it kinda built a wall in this conversation that shouldn't be there,

nature would've created a polypolypoly hybrid smashed with a polypolypoly hybrid anyway, just because us humans did it selectively according to what we like and what sells best (because that's what the masses like and want) does not make them a bad thing. this is how time works, it waits for no one and it changes all the time. so I guess you're right about clinging to the past so hard in a game that's ever changing is defs gona come back and bite you in the end. 

@Golden-Goose just because you don't like the bullshit desert names being used as marketing does also not mean the weed is shit or anything worse than the stuff back in the day. because of human intervention and selective breeding we do get to choose the names of our strains we create, sadly that's just how it works and we are wasting time and energy getting upset about it.

at best it's basically the same, with the exception that GOOOOD TASTING FROSTY weed was harder to find back in the day, making it somewhat of a trophy weed, when today GOOD TASTING FROSTY weed is everywhere. to me that's a huge improvement.... just gotta allow the times to be to really appreciate it for what it is. 

[Golden-Goose]

2 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

well, a landrace and a popular old school strain is not the same thing. let's focus on the topic at hand here, popular old school strains.

I feel since that "polypolypoly hybrid smashed with a polypolypoly hybrid" thing was mentioned it kinda built a wall in this conversation that shouldn't be there,

nature would've created a polypolypoly hybrid smashed with a polypolypoly hybrid anyway, just because us humans did it selectively according to what we like and what sells best (because that's what the masses like and want) does not make them a bad thing. this is how time works, it waits for no one and it changes all the time. so I guess you're right about clinging to the past so hard in a game that's ever changing is defs gona come back and bite you in the end. 

@Golden-Goose just because you don't like the bullshit desert names being used as marketing does also not mean the weed is shit or anything worse than the stuff back in the day. because of human intervention and selective breeding we do get to choose the names of our strains we create, sadly that's just how it works and we are wasting time and energy getting upset about it.

at best it's basically the same, with the exception that GOOOOD TASTING FROSTY weed was harder to find back in the day, making it somewhat of a trophy weed, when today GOOD TASTING FROSTY weed is everywhere. to me that's a huge improvement.... just gotta allow the times to be to really appreciate it for what it is. 

But that's just the thing... how much selective breeding is actually happening when we talk about the big boys in the game? If I have a stud, and then hit every single elite cookie clone I have with the pollen. Give each strain a cool name and slap some high end packaging on it, what have I actually done? Have I bred something for a desired taste, or maybe a certain type of high? Of course not.

I have zero issues with F1's either. Even untested F1's, if the parents are stable and the breeder at least put some thought into why he/she was pairing two strains together.

What would you classify as GOOD TASTING FROSTY weed? Maybe a new thread should be created with everyone's suggestions of really good modern strains. I'm not against having my mind changed. I've grown out a few of the newer cookie hybrids, and they just haven't quite cut it in my room. I would love to find something contemporary that is good enough to last more than a few rounds. 

I have a friend that breeds with cookies strains, crossing them into OG's and Diesels. He has been doing this for a while now. Some of his gear is mind blowing, but he is also super paranoid. So I worry that his gear will never see the light of day. I'm really not against new strains that check the right boxes. People tend to gravitate towards what they're comfortable with, so I'm probably guilty of giving more time and effort to finding a good OG vs finding a good cookie representation.

Anyway... apologies to the OP. I think this thread might be derailed.

To try and get back on thread... I would love to pollen chuck with some malawi or rooibaard. Bring down the flower time, and improve structure (for indoor) while maintaining at least some of the unique effects and maybe get something that tastes a little different. That would be a hugely time consuming effort though.

[Totemic]

17 minutes ago, Golden-Goose said:

But that's just the thing... how much selective breeding is actually happening when we talk about the big boys in the game? If I have a stud, and then hit every single elite cookie clone I have with the pollen. Give each strain a cool name and slap some high end packaging on it, what have I actually done? Have I bred something for a desired taste, or maybe a certain type of high? Of course not.

As a breeder, taking a stud and crossing it into x, y, z different cookies lines, or tangie lines or whatever lines are in focus at that time, I'm testing that male to see with which of those related lines are going to pair up the best with that male. Assuming that this means a breeder is not selecting, is naive. This is the very art of selecting.

Not all those lines may be worked further, maybe only one, but there is no reason why the other lines can't or shouldn't be shared. 

A solid, realistic example is what I did last year with my chocolate Gelato line, by crossing it into 4 other lines. They all came out great, but the Slurricane cut that made the Tortoni line, was the best match of that run. Why, because after working with the cut for over a year, I've noticed that the terpene profile is easily manipulated, and the gelato profile has dominated as I wanted, while most of the great slurri traits have remained. Tortoni is the line I'm working further. The same holds true for the C99 I crossed into the same slurri cut... The terpene profile is exactly what I've wanted, on a Slurricane body. 

I've given the plant another chance at evolving. 

So what have I actually done... Thats breeding man. 

[Golden-Goose]

I'm confused... are you saying you're one of the big boys in the game I was referring to, or are you suggesting those guys do what you do?

Do you see the commercial machine I'm talking about, or have you allowed your personal feelings to get in the way of seeing the forest for the trees?

Also, sharing and selling is not quite the same thing man. So, do you share your gear that didn't quite hit the mark or do you sell it? If you sell it, more power to you, but do you then sell it for less than a strain you've worked for 2 years? You obviously have a routine that works for you, and helps you get the results you are looking for. Which is exactly the opposite of what I'm bitching about.

What is the point of breeding if you're not at least going to attempt to create something that's a little special or unique, or maybe you have some other agenda like the preservation of an older line. If you're not doing this to the best of your abilities, then all you're doing is dumping shit on to the market to make money. This is not aimed at you, so don't get worked up by that question/statement.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me that the big brands have any other goal than mass production and building their brands into the powerhouses you see today.

I sound like a hater, but remember how this kicked off. Old vs New. Without the old there is no new. Scratch under the surface of cookies and what do you get? What amazes me is how cookies spawned an empire. I'm a seed junky and love trying new stuff. I have yet to find a cookies variety from seed that is good enough to last more than 3 rounds in my room. That is my honest, personal opinion.

We all want to succeed, but success brings it's own problems. Can you honestly tell me that if you blew up worldwide that you would still be able to maintain the standard you do now? Or do you think maybe shit would be outsourced and automated to within an inch of it's life, while massive amounts of effort and funds get channeled into creating a fire breathing monster brand with a life of it's own.

[Totemic]

3 minutes ago, Golden-Goose said:

I'm confused... are you saying you're one of the big boys in the game I was referring to, or are you suggesting those guys do what you do?

Do you see the commercial machine I'm talking about, or have you allowed your personal feelings to get in the way of seeing the forest for the trees?

Also, sharing and selling is not quite the same thing man. So, do you share your gear that didn't quite hit the mark or do you sell it? If you sell it, more power to you, but do you then sell it for less than a strain you've worked for 2 years? You obviously have a routine that works for you, and helps you get the results you are looking for. Which is exactly the opposite of what I'm bitching about.

What is the point of breeding if you're not at least going to attempt to create something that's a little special or unique, or maybe you have some other agenda like the preservation of an older line. If you're not doing this to the best of your abilities, then all you're doing is dumping shit on to the market to make money. This is not aimed at you, so don't get worked up by that question/statement.

You're going to have a hard time convincing me that the big brands have any other goal than mass production and building their brands into the powerhouses you see today.

I sound like a hater, but remember how this kicked off. Old vs New. Without the old there is no new. Scratch under the surface of cookies and what do you get? What amazes me is how cookies spawned an empire. I'm a seed junky and love trying new stuff. I have yet to find a cookies variety from seed that is good enough to last more than 3 rounds in my room. That is my honest, personal opinion.

We all want to succeed, but success brings it's own problems. Can you honestly tell me that if you blew up worldwide that you would still be able to maintain the standard you do now? Or do you think maybe shit would be outsourced and automated to within an inch of it's life, while massive amounts of effort and funds get channeled into creating a fire breathing monster brand with a life of it's own.

Me? One of the big boys... Heavens no. I'm a hobby breeder man, but my efforts have created a table that made 7 figures over the last year down my distribution line with 45000 seeds distributed. So does this make me part of this commercial machine? Does this make my efforts financially driven? Does this mean I have changed the way I approach my breeding over the last decade? 

I couldn't tell you how any of those real big guys run their breeding programs, nor their primary motivation. 

My primary motivation has always been driven by a deep relationship with the plant, and sharing that.

You may see totemic as just one of the brands, and while I have chosen a brand to engage the public, totemic is still rooted in the activism to free the plant. 

But anyway, I do get where you are coming from, no offense taken at all

 

[PsyCLown]

I feel this has lead to an interesting topic with some nice views and opinions.

 

I do feel there are some traits which are not ideal when it comes to some of the popular, bigger name breeders out there. Perhaps even some of the smaller breeders.

The breeders aren't necessarily able to cover costs themselves and for most it is a business, so at least one of the goals is to make money and profit. Understandably so.

 

Without the old there wouldn't be any of  the new. Without people breeding in the manner they feel works best for them, we may not have ended up with some of the strains we have today. I am of the opinion that there is no breeder out there who only has fire strains, at least according to my preferences, however a strain I dislike may be cherished by another grower. Variety is important in this regard.

I have yet to come across a strain which ticks every single box I want, there has always been a compromise of something and it may continue that way until cannabis starts being genetically modified and released to growers. Whether this will happen, who knows, I feel it is likely considering the way things have gone with other crops people grow in large amounts. It is likely easier and quicker to modify something in the lab then to try and breed selectively for particular traits. This is another tangent though.

 

@Golden-Goose Although these big brands may be focusing more on marketing than breeding, they still need to at least try put out some fire stuff - especially if their pricing is on the higher end. No matter how good the branding and marketing is, if their strains are consistently shit then people will eventually learn and stop buying from them.

 

It does feel as if there has a meta with cannabis. Certain strains or breeders getting hype for various reasons and one I think we can all attest to is Slurricane by In House Genetics. A lot of people know of Slurricane, whether it is really slurricane they end up growing or smoking who knows but is has become a very popular name.

The same applies to some other strain names, white widow, skunk, chemdog, OG Kush, GG #4 etc. It happens quite a bit with some of the older strains actually, at least I feel this is the case. Which kinda takes me back to one of the points which lead to this conversation - people using the popularity behind these names to sell their products. ie. cheaper seedbanks making their own version of chemdog or white widow for example and selling the seeds for a lot less and making it more accessible to the masses compared to the original breeder of these strains.

Heck, even Purple Punch - a quick google search will bring up multiple "breeders" with this strain.

 

Whatever you want to call it, I feel what these breeders are doing by working off the popularity of the name and just trying to get a piece of the pie is wrong. I have no issue with people using popular or good strains, but at least use good cuts of these strains when breeding and put some effort into it.

 

Like you get Purple Punch:

 

and then you get Purple Punch:

 

 

Also how many cuts are available or how accessible are some of the true, proper old school strains? Perhaps @Golden-Goose would have a better idea than I do.

I suspect some of those cuts are likely gone or kept by a very select few people who likely do not share it.

The same goes for some landraces, such as Durban Poison.

 

A question for me still remains, for some of these popular old school cuts - have they continuously been bred and kept evolving and improving with the times? Something like White Widow, Chemdog or GG4 ? Are they available in their original form still and how does that actually compare to some of these newer strains?

 

I feel a lot of these breeders who try and copy these older strains may have fucked the original breeder over as a lot of that the cheaper stuff grown which claim to be the same strain is mighty disappointing and this in turn can lead to people thinking those are shit strains in general and it was all hype. I myself am perhaps in this boat. 

 

What blows my mind is, if stuff like this was available in the 90's

 

Why have people still been growing jut like this:

30 years later and the above is still common amongst growers. As far as I am concerned, weed like this is below average.

[Golden-Goose]

1 hour ago, Totemic said:

Me? One of the big boys... Heavens no. I'm a hobby breeder man, but my efforts have created a table that made 7 figures over the last year down my distribution line with 45000 seeds distributed. So does this make me part of this commercial machine? Does this make my efforts financially driven? Does this mean I have changed the way I approach my breeding over the last decade? 

I couldn't tell you how any of those real big guys run their breeding programs, nor their primary motivation. 

My primary motivation has always been driven by a deep relationship with the plant, and sharing that.

You may see totemic as just one of the brands, and while I have chosen a brand to engage the public, totemic is still rooted in the activism to free the plant. 

But anyway, I do get where you are coming from, no offense taken at all

 

Nah bud... I don't see Totemic as just another brand. You may be quite successful, but my rant is specifically aimed at mega international brands. Especially Cookies. What Berner has done is great business. I just can't fathom how strains that the cookie cutter machine stamps out on a regular basis can compare to some of the legends of the past.

This is actually a conversation that should be had in person. Too much talking past each other to make our individual points.

No hard feelings my man.

[Khakibos]

14 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

 

Why have people still been growing jut like this:

30 years later and the above is still common amongst growers. As far as I am concerned, weed like this is below average.

The thing is it comes to personal preference, there are people that are only looking to smoke "the best weed" in terms of bud appeal, thc content and good tasting terps.  And then are people who like trying everything because it really comes down to the experience. 

Just by the way that "jut" you referring to (auto Daiquiri Lime) and I'm by no means a Dutch Passion fanyboy. But that is some good tasting weed !

 

[PsyCLown]

14 minutes ago, EastRandGrower said:

The thing is it comes to personal preference, there are people that are only looking to smoke "the best weed" in terms of bud appeal, thc content and good tasting terps.  And then are people who like trying everything because it really comes down to the experience. 

Just by the way that "jut" you referring to (auto Daiquiri Lime) and I'm by no means a Dutch Passion fanyboy. But that is some good tasting weed !

 

Haha, I grew Auto Daquari Lime too. Was alright, could have been more potent though. Was nothing to write home about as far as I am concerned.  Bag appeal was minimal though.

Jut is perhaps too strong of a word, it could be worse and look like this... Even then I have seen worse weed.

 

There is more to weed than just the way it looks, it does however play a role.

 

I understand and agree that personal preference comes into play, part of why there is variety... But it feels as if weed from that other picture has been extremely difficult to come across... Why is this the case? Only recently have we started to gain access to more strains like this? Is it due to the laws? Have people been keeping it to themselves and smaller groups / circles?

Have breeders been lazy and some of the larger ones not bothered to put time and effort in to get such strains?

Edited September 17, 2021 by PsyCLown

[Khakibos]

 

20 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

I understand and agree that personal preference comes into play, part of why there is variety... But it feels as if weed from that other picture has been extremely difficult to come across... Why is this the case? Only recently have we started to gain access to more strains like this? Is it due to the laws? Have people been keeping it to themselves and smaller groups / circles?

Have breeders been lazy and some of the larger ones not bothered to put time and effort in to get such strains?

I agree that even locally where I stay I've seen improvement in local stuff being sold over the past few years, mostly because people who never had access to foreign genetics are now able to hop online and get strains that they've wanted to grow forever from all these famous breeders. 

But I mean there are so many aspects to it, people in the community being so open about it now and people trying to get a foot into the door etc ... 

Edit: when I say locally I mean from people that grow and sell their own weed, not stuff brought in from other provinces 

Edited September 17, 2021 by EastRandGrower

[Golden-Goose]

Damn man... I'm so involved in this thread I can't get any work done. 

Guys think about this for a second.... strains that not only survived, but achieved legendary status during the worst years of prohibition did so on merit alone. Yes, there was hype around those strains too but there was no big budget driving marketing campaigns to achieve this.

For the guys willing to invest a little time into reading some old threads. Head on over to ICmag and read some of the old threads around OG Kush, Sour Diesel and Chemdog. It makes for very interesting reading. Am I allowed to punt another forum? I'm not suggesting anyone defect. LOL! 

There is a thread posted by Good ol dog. Read that from start to finish and you might start to get an idea of why Chemdog is the legend that it is.

[Khakibos]

 

4 minutes ago, Golden-Goose said:

 

For the guys willing to invest a little time into reading some old threads. Head on over to ICmag and read some of the old threads around OG Kush, Sour Diesel and Chemdog. It makes for very interesting reading. Am I allowed to punt another forum? I'm not suggesting anyone defect. LOL! 

 

ICmag and seedfinder are great for if you want to go down never ending rabbit hole on info on the more popular strains from the past few decades  

[Golden-Goose]

3 minutes ago, EastRandGrower said:

 

ICmag and seedfinder are great for if you want to go down never ending rabbit hole on info on the more popular strains from the past few decades  

LOL! I've lost countless hours just reading back stories on some strains.