Narrowed down to 2, which grow medium is best for me?

[Teal Smith]

Hi Everyone. Some advice pls... I've narrowed down my choice of grow medium to two. 1 - Atami High Porosity Coco & 2 - Atami Bi-Grow. Both are coco based and pre fertlized for veg and BOTH require added fertlizers. Anyone had experience with either of these mediums? or better yet both. I'm a little unclear on the advantages and disadvantages of each one... I plan on doing SOG and want the easiest and most low maintenance grow medium that is the hardest to screw up. Thanks!
PS - has to be between these 2 as they are a freebie accompanying a bunch of other items on an order.

[SkunkPharm]

Hi, have you grown hydro before? Do you have a pH and EC pen? What fertilizer range will you use? For me coco is coco I used to mix my own Coco/perlite. I think this fancy packaging is just a way to inflate the price. My opinion. Good Luck

[Teal Smith]

Hi SkunkPharm, thanks. No, I haven't grown hydro before. I had my mind set on using the Just Cannabis Craft Soil in the begining but the said supplier does not stock. They're willing to throw in the growing medium for free so I have the choice of 2 Atami grow mediums. I will buy the PH & EC meters. I'll probably use the Atami fertilizer range. 

I'm more looking for guidance differentiating between the 2 that are available to me. What are the main differences between these 2 mediums?

[Prom]

5 hours ago, Teal Smith said:

 I plan on doing SOG and want the easiest and most low maintenance grow medium that is the hardest to screw up.

how about simple organic soil? Is the most simple grow medium as the soil buffers.

[PsyCLown]

I agree with @SkunkPharm coco is coco, keep it simple and if you wanna go coco use plain coco or perhaps a coco / perlite mixture.

 

If you are getting the coco for free, then take whichever gets you more medium end of the day.

Do NOT skimp on a PH pen, for an EC meter you can go cheap as it does not matter as much.

 

If I had to chose between the two, the bi gro seems to not have any perlite in it? So you could add some perlite to stretch the medium a bit more.

Not sure how I feel about putting a seedling into coco with an EC of around 1.7 though...

The High Porosity seems to have more amendments in it... for Coco, I want to keep it plain and simple as this allows me to have more control over the grow and what the plants get.

[CreX]

Free is free... Maybe take one of each and see how they go... 

Like @PsyCLownmentioned... You need to be concerned about how the seedlings will handle the craft coco..

I would get some jiffies for germination just in case

[SkunkPharm]

Don't waste your money. Rather just buy organic soil. It sounds like the shop wants to make more money out of you. They know organic growers spend much less money at the store. You dont need expensive fertilizer or ec or pH pens. It is also much easier to grow organic. There is a couple of books that I could recommend if you are interested in the science.

[PsyCLown]

If we're talking about growing cheaply in terms of actual cost to run a grow. I think hydro may be the cheapest. Water is practically free, nutes you barely use any only on a res change or the occasional tip up if the EC is dropping a bit too low.

Equipment is typically a once off cost or will last you a good while at least, multiple grows.

I feel coco is cheaper than soil due to the price of soil and the fact I can buy 5kg coco bricks and 100L of perlite for next to nothing.

I personally wouldn't run a soil grow without providing nutes, I know some do and have seen a few grows on the forum as such although it's just not for me.
Nutes for coco and soil are the same, you can get cheap ones and expensive ones. Same goes for hydro.
Organic nutes such as Biobizz aren't all that cheap, but not terribly expensive either. You get expensive mineral nutes too.

Equipment aside, I feel soil is actually the most expensive growing method and I also feel that'd why there has been so much marketing and buzz behind it. I started with soil and have since moved away from it. No regret from my side.
It has its place for sure, although don't be fooled into thinking its cheap.
Also when I was not correcting my pH with my organic grows, that is the only time I had nute lockout issues and that was corrected once I started correcting my pH levels.
Often soil has amendments to help buffer the pH level but it does not mean you should not still check your feed and pH it.
Depending on what nutes you're using with your soil, you'll still need an EC pen.

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[SkunkPharm]

15 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

If we're talking about growing cheaply in terms of actual cost to run a grow. I think hydro may be the cheapest. Water is practically free, nutes you barely use any only on a res change or the occasional tip up if the EC is dropping a bit too low.

Equipment is typically a once off cost or will last you a good while at least, multiple grows.

I feel coco is cheaper than soil due to the price of soil and the fact I can buy 5kg coco bricks and 100L of perlite for next to nothing.

I personally wouldn't run a soil grow without providing nutes, I know some do and have seen a few grows on the forum as such although it's just not for me.
Nutes for coco and soil are the same, you can get cheap ones and expensive ones. Same goes for hydro.
Organic nutes such as Biobizz aren't all that cheap, but not terribly expensive either. You get expensive mineral nutes too.

Equipment aside, I feel soil is actually the most expensive growing method and I also feel that'd why there has been so much marketing and buzz behind it. I started with soil and have since moved away from it. No regret from my side.
It has its place for sure, although don't be fooled into thinking its cheap.
Also when I was not correcting my pH with my organic grows, that is the only time I had nute lockout issues and that was corrected once I started correcting my pH levels.
Often soil has amendments to help buffer the pH level but it does not mean you should not still check your feed and pH it.
Depending on what nutes you're using with your soil, you'll still need an EC pen.

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I think we will differ on this point. I mix my own soil. I am on my second grow in the same bags of soil. I have heard of guys in thr US that has been growing in the same beds for 11 years without any issues. I know we are not there in terms of the services that they use to test their soil and then to re-ammend with the correct amendments. But with a bit of logical thinking you can overcome these issues. 

All and all I struggled with growing in coco. Maybe you guys are just better at it that what I was. But I prefer the science of soil.

Edited June 1, 2020 by SkunkPharm

[PsyCLown]

I think we will differ on this point. I mix my own soil. I am on my second grow in the same bags of soil. I have heard of guys in thr US that has been growing in the same beds for 11 years without any issues. I know we are not there in terms of the services that they use to test their soil and then to re-ammend with the correct amendments. But with a bit of logical thinking you can overcome these issues. 
All and all I struggled with growing in coco. Maybe you guys are just better at it that what I was. But I prefer the science of soil.

Ahh, fair enough.
I didn't really look into mixing my own soil and imagine that could help reduce the cost heavily.

If one were to reuse soil or coco, it does help reduce the cost quite a bit but I think majority of people on this forum don't reuse their soil or coco - outdoor is a bit different of course.

I did reuse soil once and didn't have any issues, but I feed with every watering so I didn't expect issues to appear due to the constant nutes.

Mixing your own soil isn't a quick thing either as far as I understand, not like hydrating a brick of coco and buffering it which could be done in a day or two.



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[CreX]

So I am generally a broke ass mofo looking to save costs where I can. 

And reusing what I have really slashes operating costs. 

I love my hydro... Ultimate cheap setup... Water is almost nothing... And the nutes that get absorbed are also borderline nothing... So hydro is the best for me. 

As for coco and soil... I choose coco for indoor growing and reuse it with great effectiveness. It's a bit of work cleaning the coco after a good harvest... But it's worth it imo. 

As for soil... I'm still on the fence here... Maybe I just suck at soil indoors, or I just prefer coco that much more. 

I do have a stash of soil that's going to be recycled for balcony growing next season... Tomatoes and the like... 

I'd like a ebb and flow/nft setup when I'm big... But for now... It's DWC cloning and coco flowering

[Teal Smith]

17 hours ago, SkunkPharm said:

Don't waste your money. Rather just buy organic soil. It sounds like the shop wants to make more money out of you. They know organic growers spend much less money at the store. You dont need expensive fertilizer or ec or pH pens. It is also much easier to grow organic. There is a couple of books that I could recommend if you are interested in the science.

Definitely, which books? Thanks!

[SkunkPharm]

True Living Organics by The Rev

Teaming with Microbes by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis

Teaming with Nutrients by Jeff Lowenfels

 

[SkunkPharm]

Then their is loads of youtube channels you can follow. Most of them are junk but I found KIS Organics does a good show. Always interresting guests on that you can learn from.

[Teal Smith]

17 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

I agree with @SkunkPharm coco is coco, keep it simple and if you wanna go coco use plain coco or perhaps a coco / perlite mixture.

 

If you are getting the coco for free, then take whichever gets you more medium end of the day.

Do NOT skimp on a PH pen, for an EC meter you can go cheap as it does not matter as much.

 

If I had to chose between the two, the bi gro seems to not have any perlite in it? So you could add some perlite to stretch the medium a bit more.

Not sure how I feel about putting a seedling into coco with an EC of around 1.7 though...

The High Porosity seems to have more amendments in it... for Coco, I want to keep it plain and simple as this allows me to have more control over the grow and what the plants get.

Great info, thanks! Good suggestion on the stretching the Bi-grow with perlite. I was also concerned about seedlings in the nutrient rich medium but apparently it works just fine, then only add nutes later. The guy said the High Porosity has been known to produce higher yields but maybe the Bi-grow will be the same after adding perlite... I've not worked with coco before so I'm not really sure what is required, that's the actual problem. I mean I know I'll have to add nutes at various stages but wouldn't know where to start in terms of quantities and frequency of feed etc. I'll check if Atami has a recommended feeding shcedule or something...

[Teal Smith]

5 minutes ago, SkunkPharm said:

Then their is loads of youtube channels you can follow. Most of them are junk but I found KIS Organics does a good show. Always interresting guests on that you can learn from.

Will def check out KIS YouTube. Thanks for that!

[Teal Smith]

18 minutes ago, Teal Smith said:

Definitely, which books? Thanks!

 

17 hours ago, SkunkPharm said:

Don't waste your money. Rather just buy organic soil. It sounds like the shop wants to make more money out of you. They know organic growers spend much less money at the store. You dont need expensive fertilizer or ec or pH pens. It is also much easier to grow organic. There is a couple of books that I could recommend if you are interested in the science.

I also figured I'd need decent EC and PH pens if I'm going to do this properly so I was looking into buying those regardless. Getting the soil from them FOC will save a little money not much because I'll still need to buy fertilizers. But apparently with coco the yields are substantially greater with less pest issues, both sound great to me and this is why I'm still considering this option. On the other hand, I absolutely love the idea and simplicity of organic soil. I'm kind of torn between the 2 

[SkunkPharm]

This was harvested in an organic soil.

[Teal Smith]

17 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

If we're talking about growing cheaply in terms of actual cost to run a grow. I think hydro may be the cheapest. Water is practically free, nutes you barely use any only on a res change or the occasional tip up if the EC is dropping a bit too low.

Equipment is typically a once off cost or will last you a good while at least, multiple grows.

I feel coco is cheaper than soil due to the price of soil and the fact I can buy 5kg coco bricks and 100L of perlite for next to nothing.

I personally wouldn't run a soil grow without providing nutes, I know some do and have seen a few grows on the forum as such although it's just not for me.
Nutes for coco and soil are the same, you can get cheap ones and expensive ones. Same goes for hydro.
Organic nutes such as Biobizz aren't all that cheap, but not terribly expensive either. You get expensive mineral nutes too.

Equipment aside, I feel soil is actually the most expensive growing method and I also feel that'd why there has been so much marketing and buzz behind it. I started with soil and have since moved away from it. No regret from my side.
It has its place for sure, although don't be fooled into thinking its cheap.
Also when I was not correcting my pH with my organic grows, that is the only time I had nute lockout issues and that was corrected once I started correcting my pH levels.
Often soil has amendments to help buffer the pH level but it does not mean you should not still check your feed and pH it.
Depending on what nutes you're using with your soil, you'll still need an EC pen.

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I reckon a great idea to check PH with soil anyway which I was planning on doing. I was also planning on adding blackstrap molasses & Epsom salts during flower + I have EC to mix in with the craft soil so I thought that would have been adequate on the nutes side.

But I hear you loud and clear, soil isn't going to be cheaper and that's important for sure. I'm looking into what going with coco would require

Edited June 1, 2020 by Teal Smith

[Teal Smith]

Those nugs are nice and frosty

[Teal Smith]

So I'd be in for something like this if I went with coco? 

[PsyCLown]

Not really... There are soo many nutes out there. That Atami chart seems as if they just want you to buy more of their products.

Something as simple as Hortimix would work and that is pretty cheap. I have been using GHE for my current grow and it's so simple to use and I have had zero issues so far. It's just 3 bottles and you mix them in a ratio according to the chart they provide on the bottle.

 

EC / PPM pen, the cheaper ones are accurate enough.

PH pen, not so much. The cheaper ones can be quite inaccurate and lose their calibration after testing one or two liquids of different PH.

 

Coco vs soil, in terms of what is needed does not really differ much.  You have the medium and then you use nutes, depending on the type of nutes you are using for both coco and soil you may need an EC / PPM pen or you may be able to get away with it just following the dosage charts provided by the nute manufacturer.

PH I recommend you check and adjust for both soil and coco, some who grow in soil do not feel the need to check or adjust their PH though so you could maybe get away without a PH pen then. Coco typically does not have anything to help buffer the PH so checking and adjusting your PH is quite vital to ensure no lockout occurs.

[Teal Smith]

4 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

Not really... There are soo many nutes out there. That Atami chart seems as if they just want you to buy more of their products.

Something as simple as Hortimix would work and that is pretty cheap. I have been using GHE for my current grow and it's so simple to use and I have had zero issues so far. It's just 3 bottles and you mix them in a ratio according to the chart they provide on the bottle.

 

EC / PPM pen, the cheaper ones are accurate enough.

PH pen, not so much. The cheaper ones can be quite inaccurate and lose their calibration after testing one or two liquids of different PH.

 

Coco vs soil, in terms of what is needed does not really differ much.  You have the medium and then you use nutes, depending on the type of nutes you are using for both coco and soil you may need an EC / PPM pen or you may be able to get away with it just following the dosage charts provided by the nute manufacturer.

PH I recommend you check and adjust for both soil and coco, some who grow in soil do not feel the need to check or adjust their PH though so you could maybe get away without a PH pen then. Coco typically does not have anything to help buffer the PH so checking and adjusting your PH is quite vital to ensure no lockout occurs.

Great info again. I'd def check PH whether soil or coco. I'll also go with a BlueLabs PH pen and a cheap(ish) EC pen. GHE sounds good, I like the simplicity.. Have you found your yields to be significantly larger and of better quality (and maybe bud density?) by moving to coco from soil?

[CreX]

I dono about PsyClown, but I found hat decent proper no fucking around lights... Made the biggest difference to yeild no matter if it was hydro or soil or coco. 

For me, I will get the largest yeilds from a hydro run... Because I know how to work it... 

Coco seems to put out nicer buds and I would say the difference is much over much because I don't really know what I'm doing with coco or soil. 

To take your current skill level and that would determine which meduim you will yeild best in

[Teal Smith]

On 6/1/2020 at 12:49 PM, CreX said:

So I am generally a broke ass mofo looking to save costs where I can. 

And reusing what I have really slashes operating costs. 

I love my hydro... Ultimate cheap setup... Water is almost nothing... And the nutes that get absorbed are also borderline nothing... So hydro is the best for me. 

As for coco and soil... I choose coco for indoor growing and reuse it with great effectiveness. It's a bit of work cleaning the coco after a good harvest... But it's worth it imo. 

As for soil... I'm still on the fence here... Maybe I just suck at soil indoors, or I just prefer coco that much more. 

I do have a stash of soil that's going to be recycled for balcony growing next season... Tomatoes and the like... 

I'd like a ebb and flow/nft setup when I'm big... But for now... It's DWC cloning and coco flowering

Hey Crex, not sure how I missed this one! I'm starting to agree that coco is the way to go over soil. I can see they both have advantages. 1st time I'm going to try it out, but I figure as long as I stick to the feeding schedule, make gradual increments in any big environmental/feeding changes, and look for early signs of problems by looking at the plant I should be fine.