need help understanding topping

[moloko plus]

So my clones have been growing for 11 days now since i got them from the grower. On this grow i want to at least top them twice

this might be a stupid question but from what I've seen and heard im supposed to top them when they reach 5 nodes(please correct me if im wrong) but with normal grow from seed the grow is even but with clones im unsure because there is just 1 node on each side sometimes so does is count a  node or only half a node ?

 

Also if you if you top you stop the growth of the tap root ?

and lastly where the do you top them cause some people say you just remove the middle part of the top growth and others cut it just a few cm above the the node below it so very unsure about how to as I really don't want to kill them ?

 

[SkunkPharm]

Clones are a bit different to starting seeds as you are basically growing a branch of a plant. The growth is not symmetrical. My suggestion is to just top the plant. See which 2 branches grows the strongest and top those 2 branches again. Clean up all the rest of the branches and make more clones. Give some to friends.

[CreX]

So to understand what you are doing with topping, you need to remember that even though the plant is alive, you aren't chopping off its head with this maneuver lol. 

There is no hard and fast rule as to where you must top... This comes with experience... One day you will just walk by and realize a lady needs a snip and just do it! 

You can top the plant right down to the first node if you really wanted to... Don't... But I'm just saying it would be fine... 

The trick comes more about which lower nodes have decent enough shoots, you want to make your snip as low as you can! Without cutting off the lower stems you want to promote. 

So even if the nodes alternate like you are experiencing, you are just looking for lower growth that looks good enough to become a main Cola... 

And that method you have about topping at the 5th node is wrong... Or atleast the way you interpret it is wrong. 

On a seed grown plant, you would want to wait for the plant to have atleast 5 nodes, before topping the plant.... Likely at the 3rd node or lower even, depending how the lower growth has grown. 

Lemi know if this has helped you alil and feel free to ask questions to gain a better understanding. 

And don't worry about killing them... As long as you leave a leaf or 3 on the cutting.... The plant will survive 

[Bakstein420]

@moloko plus here is a link to an article that explains working with clones.

https://www.growweedeasy.com/main-line-clones-nugbuckets

 

[Psylecta]

I'm always nervous when considering HST on a clone especially if its less than a month old & the the fan leaves aren't perky/stiff pointing upwards in a 'v' formation (smiling as I like to call it) but while that clone is definitely large enough to top I'd make sure it has a strong root system to support the extra budsites first otherwise you going to end up with tiny popcorn buds or worse over stressing & end up with a Hermie bastard 

 @moloko plus whats your reason for wanting to top or fim in the first place? Experimental or? There's a misconception that there's no downside to topping or topping will magically double your yield because while its true it will increase yield by plant doubling budsites with each cut (having 2 main colas instead of 1 etc) the potency on plant with 1 main cola will surpass the topped one unless you lollipoped all your bottom branches, but I mean even in that case same rules apply: quality vs quantity and vice versa you have to sacrifice one to have the other and in most cases cancels each other out but done effectively you can find the middle ground that will maximise your overall efficiency making sure you get the most out of the plant - its very similiar to the monster cropping vs normal clone argument - one isn't better than the other but mainly depends on your situation and what u intend to achieve - same story here

plant has "X" amount of energy, its your job to get it to make the most efficient use of that limit energy it in the most effective way

its like a car battery powering 1000 tiny led diodes as opposed to powering 1 big flood light - which one lasts longer/most efficient? the same with the plant - do you want the plant to grow a very bushy/branchy plant with a 100 smaller less potent buds or a plant with minimal branches & budsites that grows into one amazingly potent cola - all depends what u want at the end of the day

Topping & FIM is almost exclusively used as a 'growth control' technique - when indoors to promote sideways/bushy growth & stop plants growing unevenly & hitting roof/lights - not too common seeming it used outdoors unless experimenting with other LST's to maximise efficiency or again like indoor scenario simply want to stop a sativa hitting 2m+ and make it bushy

[Psylecta]

On 6/19/2020 at 10:52 AM, SkunkPharm said:

Clones are a bit different to starting seeds as you are basically growing a branch of a plant. The growth is not symmetrical. My suggestion is to just top the plant. See which 2 branches grows the strongest and top those 2 branches again. Clean up all the rest of the branches and make more clones. Give some to friends.

Am now starting to wonder whether clones are more stress resistant than seed grown counterpart? Reason for this thought is a clone starts its life in a highly stressful environment (like a kid in an incubator) - shouldn't this stress in early life give the plant a higher threshold for stress tolerance?cause then theoretically speaking each clone of a clone would be more stress resistant than its predecessor? Hmm probably wishful thinking

[Scoobydoob]

If you’re worried about topping and the stress due to it (which I wouldn’t be ) you can always go with low stress training (it’s very simple) I had a clone gifted to me that I low stress trained , here are some before and after pics











This was about a month and a half apart


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PsyCLown]

@Psylecta even if you're growing from seed, after a month that plant is going to be fairly well sized and you'd likely have wanted to do some topping before 4 weeks to help speed things up a bit and help with the training.

 

Not sure where you got the idea from that topping will affect the potency of the plant? It does not affect the potency of the plant, however training the plant will affect the yield and the size of the buds. Having a xmas tree with a single large cola and will yield a larger bud / head however the yield would be lower - having a trained plant could yield more although you'd have multiple smaller buds / heads. The size of the bud has nothing to do with the potency of it though. 

 

Training and going after a flat canopy helps you make better use of your lighting as well as the plant and budsites will all receive higher intensity levels of light as it will all be the same distance from the light where an xmas tree plant will receive high intensity levels of light at the top and as you go down the long cola the intensity of the light will naturally start to diminish.

I am not saying there is a right or a wrong way, it comes down to personal preference and how interactive you want to be with your plants and your grow and so forth, although training a plant vs not training a plant does not affect the potency of the plant. Based on this theory, a mother plant which has lasted years and has had multiple cuttings taken from her and has been butchered to stay a nice size would have next to no potency - we all know this is not the case otherwise we'd not have some of the amazing strains we do nowadays as these special cuts of strains / phenos would lose their potency.

[Psylecta]

3 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

@Psylecta even if you're growing from seed, after a month that plant is going to be fairly well sized and you'd likely have wanted to do some topping before 4 weeks to help speed things up a bit and help with the training.

 

Not sure where you got the idea from that topping will affect the potency of the plant? It does not affect the potency of the plant, however training the plant will affect the yield and the size of the buds. Having a xmas tree with a single large cola and will yield a larger bud / head however the yield would be lower - having a trained plant could yield more although you'd have multiple smaller buds / heads. The size of the bud has nothing to do with the potency of it though. 

 

Training and going after a flat canopy helps you make better use of your lighting as well as the plant and budsites will all receive higher intensity levels of light as it will all be the same distance from the light where an xmas tree plant will receive high intensity levels of light at the top and as you go down the long cola the intensity of the light will naturally start to diminish.

I am not saying there is a right or a wrong way, it comes down to personal preference and how interactive you want to be with your plants and your grow and so forth, although training a plant vs not training a plant does not affect the potency of the plant. Based on this theory, a mother plant which has lasted years and has had multiple cuttings taken from her and has been butchered to stay a nice size would have next to no potency - we all know this is not the case otherwise we'd not have some of the amazing strains we do nowadays as these special cuts of strains / phenos would lose their potency.

Well now that you mention it I'm also wondering where I got the idea that it may affect potency, lol I guess my reasoning behind the statement is every time we top/prune growing tip the plant stalls to repair itself which is why its not suggested to apply HST once plant is flowering but yes thinking about it this should solely affect yield and not quality perse but sure does seem plausible though so I'll have to test the theory out to be certain

[Psylecta]

13 hours ago, Scoobydoob said:

If you’re worried about topping and the stress due to it (which I wouldn’t be ) you can always go with low stress training (it’s very simple) I had a clone gifted to me that I low stress trained , here are some before and after pics











This was about a month and a half apart


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LST all the way bro

[PsyCLown]

1 hour ago, Psylecta said:

Well now that you mention it I'm also wondering where I got the idea that it may affect potency, lol I guess my reasoning behind the statement is every time we top/prune growing tip the plant stalls to repair itself which is why its not suggested to apply HST once plant is flowering but yes thinking about it this should solely affect yield and not quality perse but sure does seem plausible though so I'll have to test the theory out to be certain

Nothing wrong with HST, as long as its done right it can work well.

 

I personally like to use a combination of HST and LST to achieve the type of plant I want.

I know some who use just HST to achieve a similar result to me. Topping a plant isn't necessarily a bad thing, if the plant is happy and healthy the delay caused is minimal to almost none as far as I am concerned.

 

You can easily take a cutting to flower in 6 to 8 weeks with it being bigger than a 20L fabric pot, trained and topped and over 30cm tall from the medium.

Most likely closer to 6 weeks. Around 8 weeks if working from seed.

 

You should yield at least 80g dry from such a plant too, a good strain could yield more.

 

I have been helping some newbie growers out, they got some cuttings and 4 weeks in the cuttings were almost ready for flower - just waiting for the plant to grow a bit more but its already been topped, trained and has had the leaves defoliated multiple times.

Sometimes doing all of this can actually speed up the growth of the plant I feel - although this is based on my opinion and not actual hard facts and science. The plants really seem to explode after having the leaves cleaned up and the smaller branches at the bottom removed.

It no longer needs to use energy to maintain that, can use all of the energy on new growth.