A quick yield boosting guide for newbies

[TheUltimateNoob]

 

Greetings 420 Fam.

 

I've decided to put this thread together for the newbies to the indoor growing scene and anyone else that it may help.

Anyway, it's for everyone to have a look at and hopefully it will give them a little bit of guidance when it comes to choosing the method of training that they want to use on their cannabis tree.

 

Honestly, I wish someone broke it down for me when I started as it would've saved me a few months of experimenting by myself and accidentally coming across new methods somewhere random to try out.

 

Anyway, here goes;

 

Okay, so there's a lot to consider when you're aiming to increase your yield while not outgrowing the space you have available... Let's start with the simple stuff.

 

My suggestion would be to research a bit on what you read here first before committing fully.

Here's what you need to consider;

 

- Acquiring good genetics (high yielding plant). Your bagseed flowers may look awesome, but most of the time it's genetics are a big twisted mess and stable genetics will yield you more bud per/m2.

 

- Setting up a hydroponic system will get you a faster growth rate, but not necessarily a higher yield (although the time taken to get it would be shorter by a week or 2).

 

- If you're using soil, you need a well mixed grow medium with enough drainage to ensure proper oxygen concentration in the root zone.

 

- Use a good nutrient line if you aren't using living soil (it doesn't have to be expensive, it just has to work well).

 

- Make sure your space isn't too big for your light (you may end up with airy, smaller buds or just a really slow growth rate if you ignore your limits here).

 

- Ensure your plants get enough direct airflow to develop healthy, strong stems and so they receive ample fresh air.

 

If you've considered of all of that, then you don't have much else to decide.

 

LST works well, but it takes a lot of patience and when using it even with FIMing, but it isn't the most effective. This is because you still have to, in a way, let the plant grow normally and constantly train it to fit your space

 

FIMing your tree will just give you more branches to train.

 

 

The next 2 methods I'm going to mention are ways of making the plant grow into your space and it sort of has a predefined shape, which requires minimal training and even less once you decide to flower.

 

Mainlining a tree requires less patience, and a bit of confidence when using this method because you will have to use some heavy HST with LST. I've used a slight variation of this on my last grow. I came out with about 204g of top shelf bud off a single tree (in a 70cm x 70cm tent).

 

"Quadlining" has been coming up more recently and I've done this on a Microgrow I had running a while ago. You don't remove as much plant material as the previous method but the results are pretty similar. It requires slightly less time than Mainlining but also works well on maximizing yield... I was able to get 40g from 1sq ft off a single, small tree.

 

Both these methods were effective at creating an even canopy with minimal LST and without the need of a net/trellis, but they do involve HST which means you will have recovery periods that add to your total length of the grow.

 

 

I haven't tried any other methods, but from my understanding; ScrOG is one of the most effective at getting a maximum yield as this is a more controlled way of creating an even canopy and involves using a rigid screen through which you weave the tree as it grows. This makes maximum use of your space as you can decide what size grid to use and when you think its packed enough to flower.

This method comes at the cost of a long veg time and regular maintenance, due to having to check which tops are growing pass the others and getting others in optimal positions.

 

 

I'm not sure what other yield boosting techniques are commonly used but IMO; I think you're better off running your trees with the mainlining technique.

 

 

Do some searching on Google to see how each of the methods work and see which one you'd feel comfortable doing. Everyone has their own preference

 

I know this isn't a complete, thorough guide or like a how-to, but I hope it helps some of you.

 

Feel free to also share the link with anyone that has a yield boosting question that can be answered by this post.

If you're gonna add information to this thread, all I ask is that you please be sure of the methods you're posting. I've tried different methods and I've compiled this from my own experience.

 

Peace

Happy Growing

 

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[TheUltimateNoob]

If you're monitoring ppms, these are the ranges I use

 

Veg: 400-600ppm

(week 1-400, week 2-500, week 3 onward-600)

 

Flower: 600-800ppm

(week 1-600, week 2-700, week 3-800, week 4 onward-700)

 

I do feed my seedlings but I'm not going to mention it as there are many who advise against it and it's super easy to do damage to them when they're that young.

 

Don't forget to make sure you pH is within acceptable range for the grow medium you're using.

 

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[John Stonedwell]

Hi bro. 

I think you have a great thread going here.

There is a lot of subjectivity when it comes to training methods and an overload of info on the Web. The holy grail being.. max yield, max potency. I eventually decided to go for an 8 cola mainline method on my 1st indoor grow. This after trying out various other LST and HST methods outdoors.

I am currently running some different strains in my grow tent and some are taking more fondly to the top and tie down than the others. The washing machine strain from Ripper seeds is an epic pheno with insane growth. She loves the HST and recovers like a beast.

Problem I have is that the other 4 strains arent necessarily taking to the HST like a champ. I am stressing that I will lose the advantage of an even canopy.

Would you suggest tweaking the topping count per plant as they take to the training and recovery? Or adapt the training completely to include other LST/HST variants? Or should I perservere and just systematically top and train when they are ready without stressing too much on the difference in growth before I flip to flower?

These ladies are currently almost 5 weeks old. First top and tie down on 3 of the ladies were over the past 2 days. 2  ladies still to show sufficient growth tip to tie down.

Awe.

*The lady in the black pot was a late entrant in the tent. She will not be part of the 8 cola mainline exercise. 

[TheUltimateNoob]

 

 

 

Hi bro. 

I think you have a great thread going here.

There is a lot of subjectivity when it comes to training methods and an overload of info on the Web. The holy grail being.. max yield, max potency. I eventually decided to go for an 8 cola mainline method on my 1st indoor grow. This after trying out various other LST and HST methods outdoors.

I am currently running some different strains in my grow tent and some are taking more fondly to the top and tie down than the others. The washing machine strain from Ripper seeds is an epic pheno with insane growth. She loves the HST and recovers like a beast.

Problem I have is that the other 4 strains arent necessarily taking to the HST like a champ. I am stressing that I will lose the advantage of an even canopy.

Would you suggest tweaking the topping count per plant as they take to the training and recovery? Or adapt the training completely to include other LST/HST variants? Or should I perservere and just systematically top and train when they are ready without stressing too much on the difference in growth before I flip to flower?

These ladies are currently almost 5 weeks old. First top and tie down on 3 of the ladies were over the past 2 days. 2  ladies still to show sufficient growth tip to tie down.

Awe.

*The lady in the black pot was a late entrant in the tent. She will not be part of the 8 cola mainline exercise. 

 

Sup bro

And thank you I hope more people come across it so it can be shared, it will definitely help some noobs.

 

I agree, cannabis training is very subjective and you have to choose one that best fits your grow space and schedule.

 

I went with an 8 Cola mainline as well my last grow and I'm planning to switch back to it after I harvest my current grow. It creates the most uniform tree and a really nice, even canopy.

 

 

I recently ran 2 strains in my tent this grow and treated them exactly the same, yet I still had 1 tree hermie on me... It's worth noting that the hermie didn't respond as well to the HST than the other tree, so my suggestion would be to adapt your training to your plant. If they haven't bounced back yet, give them some time before you butcher them again .

 

Not every strain will react the same to stress and its pretty easy to fuck one tree up without damaging the rest.

 

It's better to have a slightly uneven canopy rather than missing out on harvesting one entire plant due to stressing out too much with the HST.

 

With my Blue Dream, I went for a Flux/Mainline with 8 colas and she tuned out gorgeous. Veg was complete in 6 weeks and after the 8-9 week flower, the tree netted me 204g.

The method saved me about a week of veg vs regular mainlining.

 

I can send you a link or some pics if you're interested.

 

I know it's a bit disappointing not being able to create the canopy that you aimed for and train the plants according to schedule, but I feel that you will risk losing a couple of your trees if you disregard how they're responding to the HST and continue anyway.

 

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[John Stonedwell]

@TheUltimateNoob

Thanx for the feedback man.

I would like to see some pics of your mainline topping timelapse.  That'll help guide me with the tie down positioning to ensure sufficient space between colas. 

I'm with you on the different folks different strokes philosophy when it comes to the ladies. Kind of like different strain different train in my case. It all boils down to what the ladies tell you at the end of the day. 

What was your total veg period after the final 3rd topping and tie down prior to flipping? I just want to ensure enough vegetative growth to sustain solid flowering. 

Thanx for the guidance. 

 

[The_StonedTrooper]

Great write up brother, it always handy having this in one spot and the most important stuff.

Out of curiosity, do you not mean TOPPING, as FIMing is as I understand "Fuck I Missed" and you instead of removing all the main shoot, it grows back but deformed and then let's the lower branches catch up?

[TheUltimateNoob]

12 hours ago, John Stonedwell said:

@TheUltimateNoob

Thanx for the feedback man.

I would like to see some pics of your mainline topping timelapse.  That'll help guide me with the tie down positioning to ensure sufficient space between colas. 

I'm with you on the different folks different strokes philosophy when it comes to the ladies. Kind of like different strain different train in my case. It all boils down to what the ladies tell you at the end of the day. 

What was your total veg period after the final 3rd topping and tie down prior to flipping? I just want to ensure enough vegetative growth to sustain solid flowering. 

Thanx for the guidance. 

 

No problem bro. 

I'll attach some pics of the veg and here's a link to my flux/mainline grow journal;

https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/harvested-nirvana-blue-dream-indoor-grow-nebulas-manifold.1548198/

 

The final topping was done (2nd September), I tied her down again 10 days later (12th), and I flipped to 12/12 lighting 6 days after that (18th). 

 

[TheUltimateNoob]

Great write up brother, it always handy having this in one spot and the most important stuff. Out of curiosity, do you not mean TOPPING, as FIMing is as I understand "Fuck I Missed" and you instead of removing all the main shoot, it grows back but deformed and then let's the lower branches catch up?

 

Thanks bro, I appreciate it.  And no, I did mean FIMming wherever I typed it. It goes well with LST because it will cause a lot of branching. 

Also, your understanding is somewhat correct. Cutting off the youngest  tips of the tree changes the distribution of growth hormones within the tree itself, I won't go more into it to save you the confusion. 

 

Whenever I make mention of HST, what I'm talking about is topping the tree (removing the youngest developed growth tip to create 2 new mains). This also takes advantage of this redistribution of hormones situation in a similar yet different way, lol. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by TheUltimateNoob

[The_StonedTrooper]

13 minutes ago, TheUltimateNoob said:

Thanks bro, I appreciate it. 

And no, I did mean FIMming wherever I typed it. It goes well with LST because it will cause a lot of branching. 

Also, you're understanding is somewhat correct. Cutting off the youngest  tips of the tree changes the distribution of growth hormones within the tree itself, I won't more into it to save you the confusion. 

 

Whenever I make mention of HST, what I'm talking about is topping the tree (removing the youngest developed growth tip to create 2 new mains). This also takes advantage of this redistribution of hormones situation in a similar yet different way, lol. 

Yes that's correct, I was made to understand that topping was the wanted outcome, and when people had done it, but not close enough to the base, then you get the FIM, as it says itself, fuck I missed. Or they named it wrong.

I do know guys who go for FIMing, but it was originated from a bad topping. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by StickyD420

[TheUltimateNoob]

Yes that's correct, I was made to understand that topping was the wanted outcome, and when people had done it, but not close enough to the base, then you get the FIM, as it says itself, fuck I missed. Or they named it wrong.
I do know guys who go for FIMing, but it was originated from a bad topping. 

So yeah, sorry again about the confusion bro.

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[John Stonedwell]

@TheUltimateNoob  duuuude

Great grow diary man. I will be sure to use it as a guide when going through the grow cycle on my side. Your training was done exceptionally well. 

I think I saw you mention Seagro. I am an avid fan of Seagro as a base nutrient during veg. Did you use throughout the cycle? And another quick question. I did a test of our tap water and it averages a PH in the low 7 range.

Seagro is an acidic solution so can one assume that by mixing it with the tap water the PH would come down to the 6 range? Reason for the question is the fact that I use the manual PH testing kit and I struggle to see the colour reactions. Especially when testing after adding Seagro due to its dark colour.

[TheUltimateNoob]

4 hours ago, John Stonedwell said:

@TheUltimateNoob  duuuude

Great grow diary man. I will be sure to use it as a guide when going through the grow cycle on my side. Your training was done exceptionally well. 

I think I saw you mention Seagro. I am an avid fan of Seagro as a base nutrient during veg. Did you use throughout the cycle? And another quick question. I did a test of our tap water and it averages a PH in the low 7 range.

Seagro is an acidic solution so can one assume that by mixing it with the tap water the PH would come down to the 6 range? Reason for the question is the fact that I use the manual PH testing kit and I struggle to see the colour reactions. Especially when testing after adding Seagro due to its dark colour.

Thank you for those kind words man... The training method I used in that journal will be my go-to method for any future grows, it's really efficient and easy to manage.

Unfortunately with regards to who mentioned Seagro. I haven't used it before and I don't remember mentioning it - it may have been one of the other members. Sorry bro...

 

I use the GH Flora tripack for nutrients - it's salt based.

[John Stonedwell]

@TheUltimateNoob Bro....

Sorry I was probably high and crossed 2 threads. My bad man. 

I will also be adding the perlite top layer to help avoid that soil runoff. And it looks epic like you said  

Thanx again for sharing the grow diary, it'll go far in guiding me. My washing machine is almost ready for the second top 

[TheUltimateNoob]

@TheUltimateNoob Bro....
Sorry I was probably high and crossed 2 threads. My bad man. 
I will also be adding the perlite top layer to help avoid that soil runoff. And it looks epic like you said  
Thanx again for sharing the grow diary, it'll go far in guiding me. My washing machine is almost ready for the second top 

Lmao no stress man. I'm glad it's gonna help you. All the best bro
Do you have a grow journal I could sub to to follow your grow as well?

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[John Stonedwell]

@TheUltimateNoob hey bro. 

No grow journal yet for me. Only keeping a photo diary and some manual notes. This being my first indoor grow, and also new to forums, not even sure where to begin with a grow diary. 

Yours was on point have to admit. 

So on the mainline topic. I think we have to engage a bit on the different 2 methods most commonly out there. One being the Nugbuckets method and the other the Nebula haze "flux" mainline.

As I understand you ran the Nebula Haze method? 

[TheUltimateNoob]

@TheUltimateNoob hey bro.  No grow journal yet for me. Only keeping a photo diary and some manual notes. This being my first indoor grow, and also new to forums, not even sure where to begin with a grow diary. 

Yours was on point have to admit. 

So on the mainline topic. I think we have to engage a bit on the different 2 methods most commonly out there. One being the Nugbuckets method and the other the Nebula haze "flux" mainline.

As I understand you ran the Nebula Haze method? 

 

Yes that would be correct, I went with the Nebula method as I wanted to shave off those few days extra of veg... I want to give regular mainlining a try next run instead of the flux.  

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[John Stonedwell]

On 6/29/2020 at 9:36 PM, TheUltimateNoob said:

Yes that would be correct, I went with the Nebula method as I wanted to shave off those few days extra of veg... I want to give regular mainlining a try next run instead of the flux.  

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Hey bro. 

After reading your dairy on the flux mainline method I decided to go with that flow. 

The decreased veg time when compared to the Nugbuckets method is a definite  benefit. 2 specific strains I am running are loving the topping and tie down high stress training. Peyote WiFi by Seedsman and Washing Machine by Ripper seeds.

I did the second and final topping today but the two 2 new grow tips on either side still need some growth....

With your experience, how far do I still have to go in veg before flipping? 

Washing Machine 

 

Peyote WiFi 

As you can see I also went with the Perlite top layer for the soil run off and it works real well, thanx for the tip 

The clean up for the flux mainline also results in some real nice clone cuttings which turns out to be real benefit when you consider the price of decent genetics. 

Happy growing 

[The_StonedTrooper]

5 minutes ago, John Stonedwell said:

 

As you can see I also went with the Perlite top layer for the soil run off and it works real well, thanx for the tip 

 

Happy clones brother, 

Super happy my feedback is helping or can be of assistance to someone.

Your mainline is coming out sick, good show

[TheUltimateNoob]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey bro.  After reading your dairy on the flux mainline method I decided to go with that flow.  The decreased veg time when compared to the Nugbuckets method is a definite  benefit. 2 specific strains I am running are loving the topping and tie down high stress training. Peyote WiFi by Seedsman and Washing Machine by Ripper seeds. I did the second and final topping today but the two 2 new grow tips on either side still need some growth.... With your experience, how far do I still have to go in veg before flipping?  Washing Machine   

Peyote WiFi 

As you can see I also went with the Perlite top layer for the soil run off and it works real well, thanx for the tip 

The clean up for the flux mainline also results in some real nice clone cuttings which turns out to be real benefit when you consider the price of decent genetics. 

Happy growing 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 What's up man, thanks for the read, it's a long one I know , but I feel the results are well worth it. I've tried another method since then and I think I'm gonna go back to the flux as a staple from the next grow. Yeah the Perlite works well right, and I just remembered that I need to pick up a bag of perlite as well, so thank you also! Haha.  

 

One thing to note though is that you can't this method on clones with asymmetrical growth, but yeah I found that the clones that come off are really uniform and are just healthy overall. 

 

Your plants look really good, kinda making me miss my tree, lol.

You could let the smaller growth tips sit slightly higher than the middle ones - offsetting the growth a bit due to distance from light - until they catch up in size and then tie them down evenly again.

 

 

Okay; for the veg time

 

The last topping I did was on the 2nd of September and the last veg cycle was on the 18th of the same month, so 16 days of veg before the flip.

 

I outgrew my 1.6m grow box and moved to a tent because I couldn't raise my light any more, so it's important that you consider how much room you have in your space for your trees to grow vertically.

 

You can expect an increase in height by a factor of approx. 2,5x after the flower stretch with that method.

 

If I remember correctly, my tree was around 10" (~25cm) at the flip and ended up around 25-30" (~64-76cm) at the highest tops by the end of the flower stretch.

 

The time you choose to veg for depends on your space and light penetration... No use growing super long colas if the buds at the bottom aren't getting enough usable light.

 

If you look through the diary at the pictures during flower again, you'll notice that I spread the tree out and the long colas ended up leaning against the tent walls.

It's not ideal, but it helped get light to all the buds and the shape of the canopy really took advantage of the par coverage.

 

______

I'm working on a grow with main colas just straight up from a single tree, got a space to experiment in again so I'll make more threads when the time comes.

 

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[John Stonedwell]

11 hours ago, TheUltimateNoob said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 What's up man, thanks for the read, it's a long one I know , but I feel the results are well worth it. I've tried another method since then and I think I'm gonna go back to the flux as a staple from the next grow. Yeah the Perlite works well right, and I just remembered that I need to pick up a bag of perlite as well, so thank you also! Haha.  

 

One thing to note though is that you can't this method on clones with asymmetrical growth, but yeah I found that the clones that come off are really uniform and are just healthy overall. 

 

Your plants look really good, kinda making me miss my tree, lol.

You could let the smaller growth tips sit slightly higher than the middle ones - offsetting the growth a bit due to distance from light - until they catch up in size and then tie them down evenly again.

 

 

Okay; for the veg time

 

The last topping I did was on the 2nd of September and the last veg cycle was on the 18th of the same month, so 16 days of veg before the flip.

 

I outgrew my 1.6m grow box and moved to a tent because I couldn't raise my light any more, so it's important that you consider how much room you have in your space for your trees to grow vertically.

 

You can expect an increase in height by a factor of approx. 2,5x after the flower stretch with that method.

 

If I remember correctly, my tree was around 10" (~25cm) at the flip and ended up around 25-30" (~64-76cm) at the highest tops by the end of the flower stretch.

 

The time you choose to veg for depends on your space and light penetration... No use growing super long colas if the buds at the bottom aren't getting enough usable light.

 

If you look through the diary at the pictures during flower again, you'll notice that I spread the tree out and the long colas ended up leaning against the tent walls.

It's not ideal, but it helped get light to all the buds and the shape of the canopy really took advantage of the par coverage.

 

______

I'm working on a grow with main colas just straight up from a single tree, got a space to experiment in again so I'll make more threads when the time comes.

 

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Great stuff, thanx bro.

I will be sure to keep that in consideration for the final veg stretch. Seems like that stretch will be quite intense..

Thanx for the tip on offsetting the growth. Much appreciated.

I am excited to see the main cola exercise, sure it will look awesome with your tree tending skills!

[TheUltimateNoob]

Great stuff, thanx bro.
I will be sure to keep that in consideration for the final veg stretch. Seems like that stretch will be quite intense..
Thanx for the tip on offsetting the growth. Much appreciated.
I am excited to see the main cola exercise, sure it will look awesome with your tree tending skills!

No problem at all man.
Really amped to see how your grow turns out

And yeah, you'll notice how quickly your tree responds to light intensity, just tinker with the positions a bit to find out where your lights sweet spot is and you get some nice even growth.

I'm excited to get going on my experiment as well, I've just finished setting up my entire grow space, so I'll be creating some new threads and diaries soon... Finally have the space to grow more than 1 tree

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[afternoon blazer]

@John Stonedwell howzit brother. Just catching up on this thread now.

 

Would really love to see how your girls are coming along with the training. 

Please

[John Stonedwell]

@afternoon blazer yo man. Happy to give an update.

I ran the full flux mainline on 2 ladies but due to insane growth of one lady I had to flip to flower earlier than I thought. Today is the end of week 3 since the flip to flower.

I will also be able to tie down a bit better for a more broader and even canopy spread next time round. This is my 1st indoor grow so I learnt a lot through the process. The ladies grow so vigorously that they will yank stakes from the ground in order to grow vertical again, so a proper tie down without damaging the stem is crucial for the nice horizontal mainline. I will also try the Nugbuckets mainline for the next run as I now have better lighting. 

Peyote WiFi 

Washing machine

Chemdog millionaire 

Gorilla Kim 

[TheUltimateNoob]

@afternoon blazer yo man. Happy to give an update.
I ran the full flux mainline on 2 ladies but due to insane growth of one lady I had to flip to flower earlier than I thought. Today is the end of week 3 since the flip to flower.
I will also be able to tie down a bit better for a more broader and even canopy spread next time round. This is my 1st indoor grow so I learnt a lot through the process. The ladies grow so vigorously that they will yank stakes from the ground in order to grow vertical again, so a proper tie down without damaging the stem is crucial for the nice horizontal mainline. I will also try the Nugbuckets mainline for the next run as I now have better lighting. 
Peyote WiFi 

Washing machine

Chemdog millionaire 

Gorilla Kim 

Lovely stuff they veg like crazy with the toppings, and I know exactly what you mean - my trees rip all the training stakes out of the ground, I reposition them every week.

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[John Stonedwell]

@TheUltimateNoob very true man. So for the next round I will also more actively adjust the stakes and soft training wire like you mentioned. I will  also make more use of the training loops in my fabric pots.

I also noticed on another thread that you use a skewer scaffolding manoeuvre to flatten the canopy. That might help to ensure more tie down points and less probability for the stakes being pulled out?