Advice on lights please.

[West Coast Vaper]

In short, my opinion only
Passive air cooling wont last as long as active will, but you have a fan that can fail.
You have the best of each type listed,
Samsung make the best chip for boards, 3k and so forth, but Osram have the best deep red chips, Bridgelux the best COB chips.
You can see these efficiency tests on the manufacturer's site. The most efficient is the best.
Your power supply must not go full of the capacity of the LEDs or they wont last long.
Very good place to start, is with this video 
Stop listening to manufacturer's specific lists on the complete light sets, or China as they aren't correct. Hardly so.
This guys video explains it all.

Aah, didn't fully understand that there are different types of chip's. Will have to read up on chip's next. Which direction do you lean towards when it comes to light's?

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[The_StonedTrooper]

Just now, GGG said:

Migrow has alot of info on YouTube, have a look

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His unbiased and tests are genuine, very good place to start learning. 

Check out, Bruce Bugbee, Apogee, Harley Smith and from their, YouTube will list others hopefully and a very good place to learn plants and their system.

[The_StonedTrooper]

1 minute ago, DamDave said:

Aah, didn't fully understand that there are different types of chip's. Will have to read up on chip's next. Which direction do you lean towards when it comes to light's?

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@growopz hands down

local, warranty, workmanship, service and knowledge gold standard 

You get other local guys @Master_G excellent

stay with Samsung, and add far red Osram if you want, keep a 3 to 4 Kevin temperature and your good to go, leave the guess work or components handshake to the manufacturer. 

I've given you 2 above you can trust with your money, honest and humble opinion. 

[West Coast Vaper]

@growopz hands down
local, warranty, workmanship, service and knowledge gold standard 
You get other local guys @Master_G excellent
stay with Samsung, and add far red Osram if you want, keep a 3 to 4 Kevin temperature and your good to go, leave the guess work or components handshake to the manufacturer. 
I've given you 2 above you can trust with your money, honest and humble opinion. 

The workmanship and service from@growopz is what got me hooked on his product, don't think I'll be using other products and when I do diy upgrade it will be with his bar's.
I'm trying to get my head around the science of a good light to better understand what I'm looking at.

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[TheUltimateNoob]

I'm trying to get my head around the science of a good light to better understand what I'm looking at.

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For a good light, you want an even PAR coverage and decent PAR in the corners while maintaining a relatively warm temp over the period of use you intend (my modugrow unit sponsored by TELEC for review runs warm to the touch even after 18hrs).

An advantage would be to have a spectrum specific to what you're using it for (higher K spectrum maybe with blue for vegging and lower k with deep/far/infra reds for flowering).

Deep/far/infra reds and regular red diodes are really advantageous to have in a flowering tent as it helps the tree induce certain hormonal changes that go along with flowering.

UV diodes are heavily debatable - I personally prefer them on my fixtures as it gives me piece of mind by helping prevent PM on the upper most leaves (UV harms mold - I know its UVC that's most harmful, but UVA helps also, trust me).
The effectiveness of these UV diodes and whether they work at all is what the debate is about right now. UV is said to also increase trichome production, which is why they're included in some lights, but it's debatable as to if they work when you just use 4 diodes in a 240w fixture - which is why they aren't included in a lot of the other lights.

Of course the total power drawn out of the wall socket will also have a big say in whether the light is good or not, which is where the efficiency of the LED chips being used comes into play... The more efficient the chip, the more usable light you'll get per watt drawn from the wall.

This is subjective and everyone prefers different things although QB tech is becoming more widely adopted due to its even coverage, less severe hotspots and better corner coverage, as well as its low inputwattage.

COB chips are, in practicality, really small quantum boards.
They can have as many diodes as a regular sized quantum board and be a fraction of the size which means that they're a concentrated point of intense light and generally create an intense hotspot directly below the emitting diode.

To give you a bit more insight on the power draw and why QBs are such a craze...
My COB fixture runs at 240w from the wall in flower. I think that I could've gotten the same yield with a 150w QB fixture, or slightly less, spread out evenly over my space.

I can see why people would choose either one, and I would use both as well - in different applications.

I'm sorry if it's a lot of information you can use, but hopefully you can make sense of it and it use it to help you find a good light.

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[West Coast Vaper]

For a good light, you want an even PAR coverage and decent PAR in the corners while maintaining a relatively warm temp over the period of use you intend (my modugrow unit sponsored by TELEC for review runs warm to the touch even after 18hrs).

An advantage would be to have a spectrum specific to what you're using it for (higher K spectrum maybe with blue for vegging and lower k with deep/far/infra reds for flowering).

Deep/far/infra reds and regular red diodes are really advantageous to have in a flowering tent as it helps the tree induce certain hormonal changes that go along with flowering.

UV diodes are heavily debatable - I personally prefer them on my fixtures as it gives me piece of mind by helping prevent PM on the upper most leaves (UV harms mold - I know its UVC that's most harmful, but UVA helps also, trust me).
The effectiveness of these UV diodes and whether they work at all is what the debate is about right now. UV is said to also increase trichome production, which is why they're included in some lights, but it's debatable as to if they work when you just use 4 diodes in a 240w fixture - which is why they aren't included in a lot of the other lights.

Of course the total power drawn out of the wall socket will also have a big say in whether the light is good or not, which is where the efficiency of the LED chips being used comes into play... The more efficient the chip, the more usable light you'll get per watt drawn from the wall.

This is subjective and everyone prefers different things although QB tech is becoming more widely adopted due to its even coverage, less severe hotspots and better corner coverage, as well as its low inputwattage.

COB chips are, in practicality, really small quantum boards.
They can have as many diodes as a regular sized quantum board and be a fraction of the size which means that they're a concentrated point of intense light and generally create an intense hotspot directly below the emitting diode.

To give you a bit more insight on the power draw and why QBs are such a craze...
My COB fixture runs at 240w from the wall in flower. I think that I could've gotten the same yield with a 150w QB fixture, or slightly less, spread out evenly over my space.

I can see why people would choose either one, and I would use both as well - in different applications.

I'm sorry if it's a lot of information you can use, but hopefully you can make sense of it and it use it to help you find a good light.

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Thanks buddy. To much info is always good unless you discussing bedroom tactics.

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[GGG]

Thanks buddy. To much info is always good unless you discussing bedroom tactics.

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@growopz has info on his page also, like difference between PPF, PPFD and PAR.


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[West Coast Vaper]

@growopz has info on his page also, like difference between PPF, PPFD and PAR.


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How did I miss that. Probably got sidetracked checking out his lights. Gonna have to pay more attention when reading.
Thanks.

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[West Coast Vaper]

Would a strip like this work while l'm saving up for my next@growopz light. I have a buddy with 4m laying around.

 

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[TheUltimateNoob]

Would a strip like this work while l'm saving up for my next@growopz light. I have a buddy with 4m laying around.

 

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They would work better as sire(edit: side) lighting, a bit closer to your trees.

It doesn't say what diodes they're using so it's hard to say whether they're any good for growing.

 

BUT... At the end of the day, it's still more light.

 

The reason I suggest using it as side lighting is because of the inverse square law with regards to light intensity... Intensity decreases exponentially as you move further away from the light source.

 

At a distance above your trees similar to your actual grow light (high efficiency diodes), the output of those cheaper diodes will have minimal effect on the PAR, it may just alter the spectrum slightly.

 

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[West Coast Vaper]

They would work better as sire lighting, a bit closer to your trees.
It doesn't say what diodes they're using so it's hard to say whether they're any good for growing.

BUT... At the end of the day, it's still more light.

The reason I suggest using it as side lighting is because of the inverse square law with regards to light intensity... Intensity decreases exponentially as you move further away from the light source.

At a distance above your trees similar to your actual grow light (high efficiency diodes), the output of those cheaper diodes will have minimal effect on the PAR, it may just alter the spectrum slightly.

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Thanks Bud. Hope I'm not annoying you Peep's out there with the constant ' is this any good, can I use that' questions. I'll build you a house from the ground up but will not wire a single plug in that house. I am kak when it comes to electrics.
But with the grow I've learnt more in the last 4 months than I have in my entire life. BIG SHOUT OUT TO YOU GUYS ON THE FORUM for that.
I've started reading spec sheets and starting to understand some of what I'm looking at.

When it says 9.6w/m does it mean if I use 2 meters I get 19.2w and if I use the 4m I end up with 38.4w.
On some spec sheets I only see wattage at low numbers like 0.2w.
Is that individual LED's so if there are say 10 LED's you end up with 2w.
Appreciate all the help Bud's.

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[TheUltimateNoob]

Thanks Bud. Hope I'm not annoying you Peep's out there with the constant ' is this any good, can I use that' questions. I'll build you a house from the ground up but will not wire a single plug in that house. I am kak when it comes to electrics.
But with the grow I've learnt more in the last 4 months than I have in my entire life. BIG SHOUT OUT TO YOU GUYS ON THE FORUM for that.
I've started reading spec sheets and starting to understand some of what I'm looking at.

When it says 9.6w/m does it mean if I use 2 meters I get 19.2w and if I use the 4m I end up with 38.4w.
On some spec sheets I only see wattage at low numbers like 0.2w.
Is that individual LED's so if there are say 10 LED's you end up with 2w.
Appreciate all the help Bud's.

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It's no problem man, it's all part of the learning curve. I'm glad to help where I can since I wish I had someone like me or some other reputed members this forum to help when I first started - no joke.

Haha, DIY electrics can be a bit confusing with the different voltages, amps, and efficiencies. If you have nothing to do one night, just YouTube some DIY led grow light basics, it will go a long way.

And yeah, you're right about the wattage at 2&4m.

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[afternoon blazer]

17 minutes ago, TheUltimateNoob said:

 

 

It's no problem man, it's all part of the learning curve. I'm glad to help where I can since I wish I had someone like me or some other reputed members this forum to help when I first started - no joke.

Haha, DIY electrics can be a bit confusing with the different voltages, amps, and efficiencies. If you have nothing to do one night, just YouTube some DIY led grow light basics, it will go a long way.

And yeah, you're right about the wattage at 2&4m.

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@DamDave have to agree with our ultimate brother.

Help is never far on this forum.

Growing is a long ass wait. So we got time to help .

 

Also correct with the LED strips.

2m will be 19.2w

 

These values are low coz the quality of LEDs used arent the same as ur QBz.

They would definitly assist. But dont expect much from them.

Edited August 6, 2020 by afternoon blazer
Spelling

[West Coast Vaper]

Hey there all. Getting ready for my next cabinet grow. The outdoor grow should be easy judging from the last grow.
I have a QB75 thanks to@growopz. I'm still learning the lingo and wondering if I'm understanding correctly.
On the specs there's a minimum of 33.6w and a maximum of 85w.
If I adjust the dial thingy on the power supply i adjust the wattage, correct.
If so, why would I want to change it and how would I know what I'm setting the wattage at.
I want to set up properly this time round and use the light efficiently. I'll be adding those 2 15w strips shortly, half way saving for the power supply. A couple of bucks here and a few bob there takes a while.
Thanks in advance and have a chilled evening.

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[afternoon blazer]

1 hour ago, DamDave said:

Hey there all. Getting ready for my next cabinet grow. The outdoor grow should be easy judging from the last grow.
I have a QB75 thanks to@growopz. I'm still learning the lingo and wondering if I'm understanding correctly.
On the specs there's a minimum of 33.6w and a maximum of 85w.
If I adjust the dial thingy on the power supply i adjust the wattage, correct.
If so, why would I want to change it and how would I know what I'm setting the wattage at.
I want to set up properly this time round and use the light efficiently. I'll be adding those 2 15w strips shortly, half way saving for the power supply. A couple of bucks here and a few bob there takes a while.
Thanks in advance and have a chilled evening.

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Different stages of grow require diff light intensity bro. Least amount for seedlings. Medium amount for veg and max for flowering.

 

For adjusting. U gona have to check with the manufacturer. Cant tell u of hand.

Or maybe 1 of our members could assist.

[growopz]

Hi @DamDave, 

LEDs get better efficiencies (lm/W) at lower currents and cooler temperatures. 

We have watt-meters in stock. It's possible to estimate with a very accurate multimeter, but a watt meter is simpler. Pretty useful in general too, to see your electricity use.

You can grow seedlings with 15W. There's no need to blast them with 75W. But if you do decrease voltage, you need to be careful changing the voltage back up, as IV curves (voltage vs current) is an exponential curve, and you will damage the LEDs if they run for long, above their rated maxes. 

[TheUltimateNoob]

Different stages of grow require diff light intensity bro. Least amount for seedlings. Medium amount for veg and max for flowering.
 
For adjusting. U gona have to check with the manufacturer. Cant tell u of hand.
Or maybe 1 of our members could assist.

I was gonna chime in with the adjusting but@growopz is already here. I'm sure they'd be able to help a bit more 'efficiently'... Lol.. See what I did there

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[West Coast Vaper]

Thanks @growopz and.@TheUltimateNoob. I'm not gonna be fiddling or adjusting anything. Just learning a bit more about the light and spec's.

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[PsyCLown]

On 8/14/2020 at 5:55 AM, DamDave said:

Thanks @growopz and.@TheUltimateNoob. I'm not gonna be fiddling or adjusting anything. Just learning a bit more about the light and spec's.

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@DamDave Part of the beauty with LEDs is the fact that they can be adjusted soo easily and this helps improve overall efficiency in ones grow.

 

Why run 240W when you have seedlings and are veggings when you can get away with far less?

 

Dim that 240W LED QB down to say 40w for seedling, bump up a bit as the plants get bigger, and once you've started flowering you can incrase it even more.

Also despite the fact that your typical QB is rated around 240W, running it at that is not necessarily needed and is likely not going to give you the best efficiency.

LEDs are more efficient when run at lower watts as @growopz has mentioned. Heat will decrease the life of your diodes (cause them to degrade quicker) and will also lead to higher power consumption. PPFD output is not linear, yes the PPFD will increase as the watts increase but you end up with diminishing returns as you get closer to the max rated power of the diodes.

My last grow I ran my QBs at 60W each during flower, as opposed to their rated power handling of 120W and results were pretty good. Obviously everyones situation is different and the size of the tent and number of QBs inside the space etc. all make a big difference to but I ended up with an efficiency of just over 1.4g/w and I had some hiccups with the plants I was running and some strains were poor yielders (one yielded a mere 7g dry, my best yielding strains were 140g dry per plant) in comparison to the others. So it could have been improved upon very easily by running better plants and filling the space (one was a male, and another was very small but couldn't put off flowering for one more plant). Perhaps I will repeat the test when I do another grow - see what I can achieve with 60W per QB (half power) and will post up the results... but this will be in a good few months unfortunately.

[West Coast Vaper]

Hey all. Got this from a friend and wondering if it's worth while replacing my 200w worth of cfl's with it.
Is there any way of checking the true wattage for idiots without a meter. Without me burning the reservation down please

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[GGG]

Its worth giving it a test run if you can get it for free. My friend had something similar and true wattage was 160w. Might be a little more efficient than the Cfl's.

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[TheUltimateNoob]

Hey all. Got this from a friend and wondering if it's worth while replacing my 200w worth of cfl's with it.Is there any way of checking the true wattage for idiots without a meter. Without me burning the reservation down please  Sent from my DRA-LX5 using Tapatalk      

 

 

 

 

 

Definitely use this... If its low wattage, I suggest running it with some cfls as well (cfls being supplementary to it)... The spectrum of this kind of light really does something for the plants... Cfls are meant to give a lot of visible light and not much photosynthetic active radiation (PAR)  These red&blue grow lights on the other hand are meant for plants as these spectrums have been proven to help root and foliage development. I could go on about efficiency and things but just know that it's better for cannabis. The cfls can be used to light up the corners or for side lighting very well - could also veg quite nicely with them - but they aren't that grand for flowering.  

 

.......

As for true wattage, I see 10 rows of 10 led's.

 

The LEDs look to be 3w epiled chips, and there are 100 of them, which implies a 300w draw by all of the diodes.

 

BUT

 

The driver has an input current of 0.52A max... We run ~230V at 50Hz is SA, so input wattage of the driver is about 120w.

 

The DC output of the driver states 60-90V at a constant 550ma... Which means it's just under 50w output for the diodes at 90V... Less as the voltage goes down.

 

The 12V output should run only the fans in the light and draw about 10w I feel - probably less.

 

So it seems like it's a 50w light output fixture.

 

Not sure if they're using cheap led's or under-powering the leds with the low current (not sure about the second bit because I don't know what current and voltage the leds normally run at)

 

The true wattage can really only be tested with a meter but that's what I can tell from the driver details.

 

Does it have 1 or 2 drivers in it?

 

 

 

 I'd try to incorporate it into the grow somehow and use some like half of the cfls as well if I were in your situation... Then I'd have some cfls for germination or something.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheUltimateNoob]

*deleted*

 

Did some more research and edited previous comment, this one became invalid

 

[West Coast Vaper]

Definitely use this... If its low wattage, I suggest running it with some cfls as well (cfls being supplementary to it)... The spectrum of this kind of light really does something for the plants... Cfls are meant to give a lot of visible light and not much photosynthetic active radiation (PAR)  These red&blue grow lights on the other hand are meant for plants as these spectrums have been proven to help root and foliage development. I could go on about efficiency and things but just know that it's better for cannabis. The cfls can be used to light up the corners or for side lighting very well - could also veg quite nicely with them - but they aren't that grand for flowering.   
.......
As for true wattage, I see 10 rows of 10 led's.
 
The LEDs look to be 3w epiled chips, and there are 100 of them, which implies a 300w draw by all of the diodes.
 
BUT
 
The driver has an input current of 0.52A max... We run ~230V at 50Hz is SA, so input wattage of the driver is about 120w.
 
The DC output of the driver states 60-90V at a constant 550ma... Which means it's just under 50w output for the diodes at 90V... Less as the voltage goes down.
 
The 12V output should run only the fans in the light and draw about 10w I feel - probably less.
 
So it seems like it's a 50w light output fixture.
 
Not sure if they're using cheap led's or under-powering the leds with the low current (not sure about the second bit because I don't know what current and voltage the leds normally run at)
 
The true wattage can really only be tested with a meter but that's what I can tell from the driver details.
 
Does it have 1 or 2 drivers in it?
 
 
 
 I'd try to incorporate it into the grow somehow and use some like half of the cfls as well if I were in your situation... Then I'd have some cfls for germination or something.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

It has 2 drivers and 2 fans.

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[TheUltimateNoob]

It has 2 drivers and 2 fans. 

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Boom, 100w light output at 90V max. So the light should draw about 120-130w.

 

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