Whats going on with these leaves?

[Teal Smith]

Whatsup guys. Looking for some advice here. Deficiency charts are a little unclear on this. The 1st 2 pics are AK x Critical Mass, and the last pic is GSC (which looks just fine to me). About 6 days since they sprouted. They all in Atami HP Coco, no nutes have been added yet, just PH balanced water @ 6.1. (started @ 6.4 erroneously, and am bringing it down but didn't want to make the jump from 6.4 straight down to 5.8 all in one go.  

The leaves are a little too "textured" and are a more light green than the other strains which are all looking fine... Some of the cotyledons on the AK x CM have light blotches (as can be seen in pic # 2). The other strains I have are looking more normal.  (as per the GSC, in the last pic below). 

Temp and humidity have been pretty stable and constant @ 22- 26 (It got a little too hot one day) and between 63 - 75% humidity. Been battling with loadshedding but my inverter arrives today. Been watering every other day

Looking at this chart (https://www.growweedeasy.com/cannabis-symptoms-pictures), it doesn't really seem to be any of these things.... closest it looks like is the N deficiency but they less than 1 week old so not so sure about that... The Atami soil does have additives so it's unlikely. Maybe PH, then? I'm a little stumped, what you guys think? 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Teal Smith

[SkunkPharm]

Just let them grow. Stop worring so much.

[CreX]

Agreed lol, those things are too small to be able to decern any kind of issue. 

Just keep going, they look fine bro

[TheUltimateNoob]

Haha, agree with the bros.

Don't stress so much.

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

[Teal Smith]

LOL Thanks gents ;)

Edited September 4, 2020 by Teal Smith

[TheUltimateNoob]

Thanks gents ;)

Anytime

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

[Teal Smith]

Hey Everyone, Happy Sunday :)

So some time has passed and the seedlings I was concerned with above have developed what seems to be a deficiency, or problem of some kind. It's only about half of the AK x Critical Mass strain that's doing this. See pics below. The GSC + limited LSD seem to be very happy though, and almost all of them are looking great! :) (will post pics separately). So it's something that only this one strain isn't liking.... All seedlings being treated the same with the same light and water, food, temp, RH etc. same same. (Temp @ 22 - 24 C and humidity between 55% - 65%)

On deficiency chart it looks like it could Potassium or Magnesium deficiency but not sure about that... On some, the edges were browning a little, so snipped off the dead parts. But that happened only with 3 plants. 
I was advised to go easy on the nutes when working with autos, and since the coco was pre-amended by Atami (Atami High Porosity Coco), I thought 2 weeks without feeding (only ph'd water) would have been ok. Rather too little than too much, was my thought.  But now I'm thinking that this could be a Nitrogen deficiency? and maybe they were hungry all along? I have stated feeding with low doses of nutes since (2 feeds, low - medium doses) and they seem to be looking a little better. Definitely a shade darker also. I've had my QB's on about half power, at 30cm above canopy, could it be that they need a little more light? I've kept the PH at between 5.7 & 6.2, fluctuating between the 2 extremes with a feed every 0.2, every other day (waiting for top inch of coco to dry) so no shocking changes.

Only other thing I can think of is, this strain is not liking the Mycoroot I put into the coco before planting the seeds.... but not sure if that's a thing...

Edited September 13, 2020 by Teal Smith

[Teal Smith]

The GSC & LSD on the other hand are looking pretty good (those not labeled LSD are GSC)

[Teal Smith]

On 9/13/2020 at 11:24 AM, Teal Smith said:

Hey Everyone, Happy Sunday :)

So some time has passed and the seedlings I was concerned with above have developed what seems to be a deficiency, or problem of some kind. It's only about half of the AK x Critical Mass strain that's doing this. See pics below. The GSC + limited LSD seem to be very happy though, and almost all of them are looking great! :) (will post pics separately). So it's something that only this one strain isn't liking.... All seedlings being treated the same with the same light and water, food, temp, RH etc. same same. (Temp @ 22 - 24 C and humidity between 55% - 65%)

On deficiency chart it looks like it could Potassium or Magnesium deficiency but not sure about that... On some, the edges were browning a little, so snipped off the dead parts. But that happened only with 3 plants. 
I was advised to go easy on the nutes when working with autos, and since the coco was pre-amended by Atami (Atami High Porosity Coco), I thought 2 weeks without feeding (only ph'd water) would have been ok. Rather too little than too much, was my thought.  But now I'm thinking that this could be a Nitrogen deficiency? and maybe they were hungry all along? I have stated feeding with low doses of nutes since (2 feeds, low - medium doses) and they seem to be looking a little better. Definitely a shade darker also. I've had my QB's on about half power, at 30cm above canopy, could it be that they need a little more light? I've kept the PH at between 5.7 & 6.2, fluctuating between the 2 extremes with a feed every 0.2, every other day (waiting for top inch of coco to dry) so no shocking changes.

Only other thing I can think of is, this strain is not liking the Mycoroot I put into the coco before planting the seeds.... but not sure if that's a thing...

So guys, am I still worrying too much? 

They're looking a little better today but some still have this issue. Would love to know what it is so I can avoid next time....

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

This is not a diagnosis, but check out "tobacco mosaic virus". 

Rare but not impossible

[Dank]

@Teal Smith have you been foliar feeding with anything?

Skme of the silvery speckled marks look a bit  like thrip damage.

Not sure what soil u are using, sometimes a "hot" soil can also cause weird issues.

The new growth does look a lot better, i would keep a eye on the new leaves, care not to over water or under water.

[Teal Smith]

@Dank In the beginning I wasn't and the problem has been there from the start. Recently, I have started foliar spraying, say the last week  -  with a weak dilution of nutes, and once with copper soap for PM and other mold/mildew prevention, and it has made things much better. 

I also thought thrips damage in the beginning but no bugs anywhere to be found. The other plants (the majority) are all looking great as well.

Using Atami's High Porosity Coco, and it is slightly "hot". But not much, apparently. I also only started feeding nutes about 2 weeks in, and maybe what we're seeing is a N deficiency...? but not sure on that either. There's also the fact that I put some Mycoroot "granules" in the medium, and the roots on this strain could not be liking that.

The problem seems to be under control, gets better each day that passes, and new growth looks good. So will keep an eye. 

Just wish I knew what I was up against, exactly

[Dank]

Cool  could have been some fungal issue if the CopperSoap is doing the trick.

Soil takes a bit of time to settle in, dont stress too much, they looking good considering, see if the issue persists.

Looks like enough N there at the moment, new growth quite dark green.

[PsyCLown]

If its coming right then monitor for now, otherwise let us know.

 

Auto's in general can be weird I find, very finicky. Not all of them, but some for sure.

I would also start feeding closer to normal nutes as the plants are starting to get bigger now and I am sure you're at a lower PH by now too?

[ORGANinc.]

Looks like the onset of a fusarium wilting. Usually caused by bad fungi, caused by over watering 

[Teal Smith]

3 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

If its coming right then monitor for now, otherwise let us know.

 

Auto's in general can be weird I find, very finicky. Not all of them, but some for sure.

I would also start feeding closer to normal nutes as the plants are starting to get bigger now and I am sure you're at a lower PH by now too?

Thanks Psyclown. Yes am feeding closer to normal nute schedule now. Should I have lower PH than 5.7? It's been between 5.7 & 6.2

[Teal Smith]

2 hours ago, ORGANinc. said:

Looks like the onset of a fusarium wilting. Usually caused by bad fungi, caused by over watering 

It could be. I over-watered once, trying to get some runoff but they were still quite small so think I may have overdid it. But most never seemed to mind. It's strange

[ORGANinc.]

16 minutes ago, Teal Smith said:

It could be. I over-watered once, trying to get some runoff but they were still quite small so think I may have overdid it. But most never seemed to mind. It's strange

Yeah don’t stress then. Let them dry up now. Shouldn’t be a problem with the rise in temps. Pick them up first until you notice they are super light, you much rather under water than over water And then get a feel for the weight after watering. I would also suggest trying to get run-off only when absolutely necessary. Smaller plants really don’t use a lot of water 

[Teal Smith]

@ORGANinc. Thanks :) I was thinking I needed to flush after every couple of feedings to avoid buildup of salts? (or every other feeding if dosing large) The EC was actually quite a lot higher on the runoff though, something like  0.7 difference, which surprised me as I was taking it so easy on the nutes (1st dose - 1/8, 2nd dose - 1/4, 3rd dose 1/2 + some mild foliar nute sprays). Most of them seemed to perk up after that flush (and go a shade greener), though for a few it seems it could have been too much water. They getting big fast though, so should soak up much more water soon.

So when they're small seedlings, never flush or soak the medium? How does one deal with buildup?

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Teal Smith

[ORGANinc.]

9 hours ago, Teal Smith said:

@ORGANinc. Thanks  I was thinking I needed to flush after every couple of feedings to avoid buildup of salts? (or every other feeding if dosing large) The EC was actually quite a lot higher on the runoff though, something like  0.7 difference, which surprised me as I was taking it so easy on the nutes (1st dose - 1/8, 2nd dose - 1/4, 3rd dose 1/2 + some mild foliar nute sprays). Most of them seemed to perk up after that flush (and go a shade greener), though for a few it seems it could have been too much water. They getting big fast though, so should soak up much more water soon.

So when they're small seedlings, never flush or soak the medium? How does one deal with buildup?

 

Yeah I would definitely advise against that. That was something I couldn't keep up with myself. Thinking the runoff was massively high meaning I would need to flush to get it down somehow, but in actual fact there are salt left in the soil yes, but many inert mediums are also buffered which means reading runoff would have to be inclusive of that too. 

I would usually only feed nutes every third feeding and the rest water, then you making all the nutrients that builds up as salts in the medium soluble with every watering ensuring you don't have build up. This can be increased to nutes every other feeding and water the rest for flowering. That's just how I would do it.

Try remember, there really is only so much nutrients a plant can take in at any given time. These salts are the first form for Ion exchange. The purest form. There is no scenarios where bigger is better. 

[Prom]

^^ I think the guys sorted you out. Your AK just yells: tooooo freakin wet, Dude!!!  I put my bet on the foilar spray you did causing the spots. Always keep an eye on your new growth, tell you best if you have a serious issue or just a issue.

And best way to check if your plants need liquid.. lift the pot!!! And we talk FEATHER light ^^ then you water again. You would be amazed how dry the pot can get and the plants still are happy. If your leaves are "leathery" and on the heavy side, lift the pot first. Heavy.. let it dry up and see how the plants turn happy again. Over nurturing is a common problem in the beginning.

 

[PsyCLown]

So I think the higher EC run off is likely due to the fact that the coco you're using isn't plain coco so out of the bag the EC is likely on the higher side.

When growing in coco, I do not water until run off. I know a lot of people do recommend it, but fuck that is a mission. Also flushing coco, its an inert medium so you need to feed with nutrients otherwise there wont be any for the plant. I also give nutes with every feeding and since using the automatic watering the plants get nutrient water multiple times a day, based on how quickly the medium dries up... So this leads me to over watering with coco.

I feel its more difficult to overwater a plant in coco than it is to overwater a plant in soil, a larger plant in a 20L fabric pot I feel is practically impossible to overwater in coco. I can water it until run off and the plant will remain perfectly happy. When a plant is smaller, I guess it could become a problem but I usually drench the medium (entire medium, I hate only watering around the plant) and then leave it for a few days until it actually dries out a bit but I also dislike leaving my plants until the medium is very dry. When was still using soil I found this lead to slower growth, so since then I started to water more frequently and push nutes with every feed and growth increased and plants have remained happy.

 

I personally feel people put too much emphasis on overwatering of plants. Don't do it everyday with smaller plants which cannot consume the amount of water but no need to wait for the medium to be completely dry before feeding your plants again.

I do agree that generally we tend to feed our plants way more nutrients than they are able to consume, although I have not tried to lower the dosages and see what the results are.

[Teal Smith]

3 hours ago, Prom said:

^^ I think the guys sorted you out. Your AK just yells: tooooo freakin wet, Dude!!!  I put my bet on the foilar spray you did causing the spots. Always keep an eye on your new growth, tell you best if you have a serious issue or just a issue.

And best way to check if your plants need liquid.. lift the pot!!! And we talk FEATHER light ^^ then you water again. You would be amazed how dry the pot can get and the plants still are happy. If your leaves are "leathery" and on the heavy side, lift the pot first. Heavy.. let it dry up and see how the plants turn happy again. Over nurturing is a common problem in the beginning.

 

Hey Prom, thanks for your comment. It couldn't have been the foliar spray causing the spots because the spots were already there before I did that... And the AK was also showing weird symptoms before the flush and sitting wet (all other strains were looking good)... They were actually the reason I did the flush. After that they seemed to perk up and become a little better. Though I do agree they got too much water. If anything they were more on the under-watered side before the flush and were def looking far worse. So I believe that besides being over-watered that one time, there was/is also something else going on here. . New growth looks good though... so think it's under control

I lifted them before I flushed them and they were really light, then came the flush which was obviously too much too early for a few plants.

[Teal Smith]

7 hours ago, ORGANinc. said:

Yeah I would definitely advise against that. That was something I couldn't keep up with myself. Thinking the runoff was massively high meaning I would need to flush to get it down somehow, but in actual fact there are salt left in the soil yes, but many inert mediums are also buffered which means reading runoff would have to be inclusive of that too. 

I would usually only feed nutes every third feeding and the rest water, then you making all the nutrients that builds up as salts in the medium soluble with every watering ensuring you don't have build up. This can be increased to nutes every other feeding and water the rest for flowering. That's just how I would do it.

Try remember, there really is only so much nutrients a plant can take in at any given time. These salts are the first form for Ion exchange. The purest form. There is no scenarios where bigger is better. 

100% that sounds like some solid advice. That makes alot of sense and I'll do it that way moving forward. So glad I don't have to worry as much and flush as often - rather water more without nutes and give the plant a chance to uptake the nutrients you gave them before instead of flushing them out.  Thanks alot :)

[Teal Smith]

4 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

So I think the higher EC run off is likely due to the fact that the coco you're using isn't plain coco so out of the bag the EC is likely on the higher side.

When growing in coco, I do not water until run off. I know a lot of people do recommend it, but fuck that is a mission. Also flushing coco, its an inert medium so you need to feed with nutrients otherwise there wont be any for the plant. I also give nutes with every feeding and since using the automatic watering the plants get nutrient water multiple times a day, based on how quickly the medium dries up... So this leads me to over watering with coco.

I feel its more difficult to overwater a plant in coco than it is to overwater a plant in soil, a larger plant in a 20L fabric pot I feel is practically impossible to overwater in coco. I can water it until run off and the plant will remain perfectly happy. When a plant is smaller, I guess it could become a problem but I usually drench the medium (entire medium, I hate only watering around the plant) and then leave it for a few days until it actually dries out a bit but I also dislike leaving my plants until the medium is very dry. When was still using soil I found this lead to slower growth, so since then I started to water more frequently and push nutes with every feed and growth increased and plants have remained happy.

 

I personally feel people put too much emphasis on overwatering of plants. Don't do it everyday with smaller plants which cannot consume the amount of water but no need to wait for the medium to be completely dry before feeding your plants again.

I do agree that generally we tend to feed our plants way more nutrients than they are able to consume, although I have not tried to lower the dosages and see what the results are.

I was thinking the same thing about the Atami coco... better I get a more plain coco next time, not preloaded.... I think whatever is in there may be a part of the cause of why my AKs were not loving life... Much better now though.

Ya the draining of the flush is not fun! haha. so glad I don't have to do it as much. Right now I'm aiming to water/feed every other day, and at a push every 3rd but that's less ideal. When they bigger, I will water more frequently. If I can see the top 5cm or so dry and the pot feels light I will water again. That's how I've been doing it. I think my error was the flush, especially that early with smaller plants. My fabric pots are small and the medium drys out fairly fast even after complete saturation, so that is helpful. I've had the opposite effect in larger pots before and that was more difficult to get the waterings right.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Teal Smith