Bay Seeds

[Bay Seeds]

Hi everybody these are our 2 new males for 2020. Lemon jedi OG by Dark Horse Genetics. Bought 10 Regular seeds. Only 5 germinated. Collecting the pollen daily. The 3 girls in the 60L are the 3 females. 

[Bay Seeds]

Also just started a few new seeds.  11/12 Geminated . Really looking forward to the Frisian Duck.

 

[Bay Seeds]

Mandorin Cookies 1 and 2, clones from a friend and fellow grower.  Will probibly cut them into clones soon. 

[Bay Seeds]

The Banana Monkey Autoflower is coming along. Not every day  you see a revegging auto motherplant that gave hundreds of seeds is standing next to her children. The sick little one in the front is a rescue attempt '' Royal ak''. Had a soil ph of 4.3 when i got her. 

 

[Dank]

18 minutes ago, swum said:

Bit confused by this. From what i understand photo x auto F1 gives you only photo plants, some with faster flowering but still photo. Then u need to select from the f2s with auto traits and cross them for fully auto f3s.

@swum some might have the Autoflowering trait (at 24hr ligjt cycle), while a lot of them wont.

A auto that can reveg is not a Auto and has dropped that genetic trait. It could carry the recessive gene, however u would still need a male carrying the trait to get higher Auto counts.

Breeders go as far as f5 and f6 to try lock in correct traits, perhaps why Auto regs are quite rare on the market.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Dank

[CreX]

@swum, not necessarily,

even F2 reg Auto seeds will be subject to different phenotypes.

it also depends on so much. was it an auto male that you pollinated a photo fem? or was it a photo male that pollinated an auto fem? depending which of the plants has the most dominant traits will depend on what traits the offspring gravitate towards. 

and what you are referring to is called Hybrid Vigor... most bagseed tend to express rapid healthy growth and are known to have this vigor.

well bred plants from reputable breeders also exhibit this trait, but it does not often express itself in later generations starting from F3.

successful back crossing with the original parents can often bring back this trait in your offspring.

[CreX]

1 hour ago, swum said:

What I'm saying is, to be FULLY auto they need to go to f3. Regardless of the phenotypes you get we're talking about the auto trait. 

Hybrid vigour comes from crossing two plants with completely different genetic backgrounds. For example OG kush x Panama would be a true f1 hybrid with much more "hybrid vigour" than say, a Cookies x OG Kush.

 

yea i get that you are talking about Auto trait. and depending which trait is dominant is the way the offspring will turn out.

If the Auto gene is dominant over the photo gene you could experience 75% auto and 25% photo in F1, from there you select the best male that flowers under 24h and the best female that flowers under 24h, mix em , and if you chose the right autos with the dominant gene and not recessive gene, then your ratio could improve to something like 93% auto and 7% photo in F2.

so you are right in saying you would need to get to atleast F3 before you could reach your 99% Auto outcome. 

i was just disputing crossing a photo and auto result in only photo offspring

 

[Bay Seeds]

1 hour ago, swum said:

Bit confused by this. From what i understand photo x auto F1 gives you only photo plants, some with faster flowering but still photo. Then u need to select from the f2s with auto traits and cross them for fully auto f3s.

Photo x auto crosses will start and finish flowering a little earlier than the photo parent. Yes, they will flower with a little more light than the pure photo parent would. They are usally a bit bigger. 

[Bay Seeds]

1 hour ago, Dank said:

@swum some might have the Autoflowering trait (at 24hr ligjt cycle), while a lot of them wont.

A auto that can reveg is not a Auto and has dropped that genetic trait. It could carry the recessive gene, however u would still need a male carrying the trait to get higher Auto counts.

Breeders go as far as f5 and f6 to try lock in correct traits, perhaps why Auto regs are quite rare on the market.

Any auto can reveg under the right conditions. Not flushing out all the nutrients during the last weeks of flowering leaving the plant weak. Not harvesting the buds but only carefully picking out the seeds. 

[Bay Seeds]

11 hours ago, swum said:

Possibly, but even at f2, youre looking at 75% photo 25% auto. These should be labeled as FAST strains not autoflowers.

There is no separate section for fast stains.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Bay Seeds

[Dank]

@swum u can run them at 24hr light cycle to see which carry the gene and which are just regular photoperiod plants like some of the parents.

[CreX]

26 minutes ago, Bay Seeds said:

Any auto can reveg under the right conditions. Not flushing out all the nutrients during the last weeks of flowering leaving the plant weak. Not harvesting the buds but only carefully picking out the seeds. 

please elaborate on this.. i am of the opinion that an auto is an auto and will not react to the hours of light it gets... 

it sprouts, it flowers, it dies.

[Bay Seeds]

@CreX Im not sure, i usally harvest the mothers. I left this one alone and it revegged. 

[CreX]

Just now, Bay Seeds said:

@CreX Im not sure, i usally harvest the mothers. I left this one alone and it revegged. 

went to trusty google and came back with some ideas... 

seems my thinking of breeding the auto gene/ all genes is flawed... seems there is no ON OFF button when it comes to genes... they can mix and change.

so where your auto flower can flower in 20 hours of light... but will reveg from 21h kind of vibes... 

very interesting... breeding the auto gene to express itself @18 hours and flower in conditions from 18 hours down... but if shes a keeper you could push her up to 24 hours and take cuttings like you are doing.

i can only imagine the sheer volume of plants and phenos one would go through to find such a plant.

[Bay Seeds]

4 minutes ago, swum said:

https://www.seedsman.com/en/cannabis-seeds/flowering-type/fast-strains

Thats flowering times bud, they still list them as feminized or auto. 

[Dank]

@CreX i have grown more than a few autos under 24/0 back in the days in London town. 

Like u said. They sprout. They flower. They finish off.

I wouldnt believe everhthing i read from uncle Googs 

Using a differnt light cycle than 24/0 for a auto is already weird to me.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Dank

[Dank]

Guys dont get me wrong im not saying its impossible, just a paradox when u have a revegging Auto. Nature is crazy and not a lot of research done on this stuff.

Perhaps as @swum mentioned this where the "fast" classification can be used.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Dank

[CreX]

1 minute ago, Dank said:

Guys dont get me wrong im not saying its impossible, just a paradox when u have a revegging Auto. Nature is crazy and not a lot of research done on this stuff.

Perhaps as @swum mentioned this where the "fast" classification can be used.

yea, that link @swumsent has some pretty interesting arguments

full of words like "Semi-Auto" and "fast" "crappy genetics"  and it would seem that not alot of info is out there about them.

but they seem to have a place, or at least they are gaining popularity.

i mean, i would love a fast auto flowering high yielding plant ... but in the same breath, i can get a Fast photo flowering high yielding plant instead

 

 

[Dank]

31 minutes ago, CreX said:

yea, that link @swumsent has some pretty interesting arguments

full of words like "Semi-Auto" and "fast" "crappy genetics"  and it would seem that not alot of info is out there about them.

but they seem to have a place, or at least they are gaining popularity.

i mean, i would love a fast auto flowering high yielding plant ... but in the same breath, i can get a Fast photo flowering high yielding plant instead

Yeh 100%, well said, i forgot to add that the market for Autos was created under the 24/0 schedule back in the day. (That was the main hype)

As soon as it can veg at 24/0 hours there will be growers in the market saying its not a Auto.

Any Fastbuds strain can be grown at 24/0 without issues, in my mind that is a Auto.

Edited September 22, 2020 by Dank

[Bay Seeds]

@swum 

The 49-56 days is the time it takes the flowers ripen after switching to 12/12 light. Its like a countdown. Yes its fast, but thats not what we are talking about. 

[Bay Seeds]

@swum Its clearly marked F1. Call it an recessive auto if you want too. 

[Stinger96]

This might just,  be the first reveging auto mother ever... This phenomenon might never before be documented... But this is the nice thing about the forum... all will be revealed in a few months time... I learn new things every day.. on the forum and off...  26 years ago when I had my first joint I never for the life of me thought that there is so much to learn about the plant... Not even talking about breeding...

Edited September 22, 2020 by Stinger96
Ps

[TheUltimateNoob]

Interesting read... Gonna look into this

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

[Totemic]

On 9/22/2020 at 5:50 PM, Bay Seeds said:

@swum Its clearly marked F1. Call it an recessive auto if you want too. 

Interesting read. I dont work with autos. It's actually one of the traits I select against. 

To me, this plant can reveg, so it's not an auto. Its photoperiod. 

Just because it's a recessive auto, does not give it a place as an auto. We cant start using our recessive traits as marketing points. They are recessive as in do not express, so the consumer will never come across them in his/her plants. Work the next generation and get that auto trait to dominate then you can call it an auto.

Only once a plant flowers in 24/7 is it an auto imo.

 

[Bay Seeds]

@Totemic Yes, the more i look into this the more i realize we fucked up. They shouldn't  have been labled autos. We flowered them under 18/6 and i thought its all cool. I honostly thought the autoflowering gene was the dominant gene and breeding with any autos would result in autos. I dont want to makè something cool and not be able to keep clones. Those 290 seeds are sold out and gone and the weird part is the reviews coming in are all positive.