LIGHTS? Which do you prefer? LED CMH OR HPS

[Greg]

Quick question guys:

which lights do you prefer? 

Im looking at a light for my first proper indoor grow. I was going to use LED, but got told some good info from from someone at one of the grow shops. He recomended THE HPS setup. Cause its tried and tested always gets good results, is is the best bang for buck. 

I was looking at an LED but only have max 4500 to spend and that's pushing my budget. So the led i found was small, and the guy selling the HPS SETUP made a good point that those wont have guarentee and will probably break, because its cheap. He does not sell cheap LEDS and and other reputable grow shops follow the same lead they only sell LEDS above 6K 

Then comes to the CMH light which is in the middle at 4500 which they say gets much better results because of the ligth range. Using a more white light than orange like the HPS. Which iv heard the hps  works better for flowering, than growing.  

So your choice 

1. HPS SETUP- R2000 with a warrenty thats with a ballast and its 600W 

2. CMH setup R4450 globe alone is 1400 of that 4450 so if i break a globe its expensive unlike HPS WHICH IS LIKE 600

3. Cheap FULL spectrum Led with flower spectrum for R3000 and no warrenty

 

https://www.somhydro.co.uk/blog/cdm-quality-over-hps-quantity. 

Good info on that site

Edited October 17, 2020 by Greg

[West Coast Vaper]

Quick question guys:
which lights do you prefer? 
Im looking at a light for my first proper indoor grow. I was going to use LED, but got told some good info from from someone at one of the grow shops. He recomended THE HPS setup. Cause its tried and tested always gets good results, is is the best bang for buck. 
I was looking at an LED but only have max 4500 to spend and that's pushing my budget. So the led i found was small, and the guy selling the HPS SETUP made a good point that those wont have guarentee and will probably break, because its cheap. He does not sell cheap LEDS and and other reputable grow shops follow the same lead they only sell LEDS above 6K 
Then comes to the CMH light which is in the middle at 4500 which they say gets much better results because of the ligth range. Using a more white light than orange like the HPS. Which iv heard the hps  works better for flowering, than growing.  
So your choice 
1. HPS SETUP- R2000 with a warrenty thats with a ballast and its 600W 
2. CMH setup R4450 globe alone is 1400 of that 4450 so if i break a globe its expensive unlike HPS WHICH IS LIKE 600
3. Cheap FULL spectrum Led with flower spectrum for R3000 and no warrenty
 
https://www.somhydro.co.uk/blog/cdm-quality-over-hps-quantity. 
Good info on that site

Have you had a look at what@growopz has to offer. He has some decent lights at an affordable price.

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[Prom]

In my personal opinion i rate MH for veg and HPS for flower as the best light range. How ever, the amount of heat they emmit and the hanging distance restriction, due to that issue, bring other disadvantages to you. LED wins in the over all home grower benefits cathegory. It creates more light and less heat per kw used. In grower terms, you also have to spend less energy to cool the produced heat down again. If you calculate just how much a light cost, you make a huuuuuge mistake... the light cost get taken over by eskom power cost within a year. Calculate the light cost per year you run it... and you will notice, LEDs are faaaaaar ahead, low consumption, 50000 hours light on average.

Then select the light strenght by grow space. 400 to 500 watt LED for 1.2x1.2 meter and 500 to 600 watt on a 1.5x1.5 area... more is wasting energy.

If you go big... you might keep starting investment low and go MH and HPS.. but cooling will come back to bite you in your ass. For home growers i recommend to go LED to make your life way easier and keep running cost low.

And my preferred ending... so how exactly do you know how to hang your diy lamp??? To much or to little light will hinder your grow results. Is like you build yourself a ac cobra kit car and add no speedometer... you drive around with zero clues how fast.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Prom
typos

[ORGANinc.]

21 minutes ago, Prom said:

In my personal opinion i rate MH for veg and HPS for flower as the best light range. How ever, the amount of heat they emmit and the hanging distance restriction, due to that issue, bring other disadvantages to you. LED wins in the over all home grower benefits cathegory. It creates more light and less heat per kw used. In grower terms, you also have to spend less energy to cool the produced heat down again. If you calculate just how much a light cost, you make a huuuuuge mistake... the light cost get taken over by eskom power cost within a year. Calculate the light cost per year you run it... and you will notice, LEDs are faaaaaar ahead, low consumption, 50000 hours light on average.

Then select the light strenght by grow space. 400 to 500 watt LED for 1.2x1.2 meter and 500 to 600 watt on a 1.5x1.5 area... more is wasting energy.

If you go big... you might keep starting investment low and go MH and HPS.. but cooling will come back to bite you in your ass. For home growers i recommend to go LED to make your life way easier and keep running cost low.

And my preferred ending... so how exactly do you know how to hang your diy lamp??? To much or to little light will hinder your grow results. Is like you build yourself a ac cobra kit car and add no speedometer... you drive around with zero clues how fast.

Nice analogy with the kit car lol, those things were all the hype a couple of years ago. 

[SkunkPharm]

Led. Heat is not your friend. Check the DIY section. I posted a couple of light builds there and it you are not a DIY guy you can pick up a 240w QB for R4500. 

[PsyCLown]

To me, sounds as if they were trying to steer you towards a sale from their store. I say LED all the way!

 

You can get quality LED lights for under R6k for sure! What exactly did they want to sell you for R6k? 240w QB?

I wouldn't purchase a blurple LED light either.

[Bakstein420]

@DamDave you can build your own LED light. Buy the strips from Digikey and slap it together yourself, not difficult. 

https://ledgardener.com/diy-led-strip-build-designs-samsung-bridgelux/

Otherwise get hold of @growopz or @Master_G, they both do locally manufactured LEDs.

[West Coast Vaper]

@DamDave you can build your own LED light. Buy the strips from Digikey and slap it together yourself, not difficult. 
https://ledgardener.com/diy-led-strip-build-designs-samsung-bridgelux/
Otherwise get hold of @growopz or @Master_G, they both do locally manufactured LEDs.

Hey bud. Agree hundred percent.
I did a lot of research and listened to advise from you guys on the forum when deciding which lights to go with.
I looked at the diy you suggested way back, had the parts list drawn up and started sourcing parts locally and strips at digikey.
Due to logistics and couriers trying to find us on the reservation, hell after a bit of homebrew moonshine I can't find myself on the reservation, I decided on@growopz .
Gave him my grow area and he sorted me out within what my budget allowed. All honesty, the extra I payed outwayed the savings of diy then.
Still eyeing out the diy or someone prepared to help as I built a bigger cabinet and I need 300w now. And you thought golf was expensive.
Enjoy your Sunday bud's.


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[Ill_Evan]

Yeah straight up good luck right now with a HID lighting setup and no AC going into summer. 

Yes HPS has the best spectrum for bloom out of all of the options, but we talking 1000W HPS here, so unless you're going with that I don't think it should be an option at all. 

@Greg you mentioned the CMH bulbs are more expensive than HPS, but you forgot to mention CMH bulbs last as long as LEDs (50 000 hrs) and HPS bulbs last maybe a good 2-3 grows. 

Fork out the dosh and go LED. I can tell you what's going to happen if you go bulbs. You're going to play around for a month trying to sort the temps, you're gonna invest in an expensive extraction system to get all that hot air out, then two years down the line you will finally replace it all with an LED because you realised the shop guy talked too much. 

[silverdelange]

I bought this a while back. Works perfectly for my needs. Great reviews on Amazon, that is why I bought it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0185OLBPK?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

 

[PsyCLown]

7 hours ago, Bakstein420 said:

@DamDave you can build your own LED light. Buy the strips from Digikey and slap it together yourself, not difficult. 

https://ledgardener.com/diy-led-strip-build-designs-samsung-bridgelux/

Otherwise get hold of @growopz or @Master_G, they both do locally manufactured LEDs.

@Greg if you decide to go the strips route, I have some aluminium extrusions which are perfect as LED strip heatsinks. I want to get rid of them, so you can have them for free.

 

@silverdelange that light will work, however its based on older LED technology - so price may be good but won't compare to the newer Quantum Boards with Samsung LM301B/H diodes. Also its not 1000W, that is marketing unfortuantely. Its probably between 100w and 240w only.

[silverdelange]

@PsyCLown Yup, pulling a steady 220 watt at the wall.

[Dr. Green]

If i had to choose to only use one of the above CMH gets my vote. The spectrum is hands down the best at the price however you will need to cool it in the summer as it creates heat.

If you dont want to cool your grow with an AC then Samsung led's will be your next best bet. I personally use a 315w cmh with 240w worth of Samsung strips best spectrum best efficiency but i do run AC 

 

[Prom]

On 10/18/2020 at 9:09 AM, PsyCLown said:

I wouldn't purchase a blurple LED light either.

I would suggest a blurple to a newbie before a HID setup. The lamps with cooling build in have one factor to worry less for a new grower. But over all, going LED is rather cheap these days. I even stopped using heat sinks on my new QBs.. just not warm enough to put one on. The heavy part are the drivers.. just check at digi-key from time to time when they have a shipping special.. they fork out free express world wide from time to time. Then you get the drivers very cheap. QBs.. 31$ for 1: 0.6x0.6cm area, 2 for 1.2x0.6, 4 for 1.2x1.2. calculate 120w per board per driver and i wouldn't go more then 2 boards per driver.. so 240w drivers or single lamps 120w.

I paid 62$ at the time at digi-key for one driver (240w).. free shipping. 

The most simple version of a Quantum Board setup for a 1.2x1.2 area will set you back 4 x 31$ (around, just look and you will find) + shipping (express around 50-70$) and 2 x 62$ for the drivers. Lets say 320$.. about 5300 Rand plus customs. Switching the lights on.. will eat 1000 Rand a month.

There should also be no panic to build the stuff together.. as long as you are able to understand the difference between + and - ... both written on each device rather clear, you can't ruin your stuff 

Those are naked QBs.. they will need a little air stream.. but I ignore the heat sink. I use 3000k + 660nm version in my grow setup

I have now both versions 301B and H. Also in different light configurations.. Bars, 4 QB closed lamp and single QBs. My health issues kept me from sneaking around on my four.. but  I can move again without harsh pains. I want to write a little guide in regards LED light configurations and hanging distance. Depending on grow space, some lamp configurations will make your life easier.. some much harder. And as not many have access to a quantum flux meter, I started to test, if I can translate the results to a normal lux meter free app for your phone.. I do not run apple.. sorry for that in advance. Results will be on android devices. My main issue, I do not publish any numbers, if I can't reproduce them on a totally different setup. Numbers would be useless if they are different. Friend is done with his batch in 1-2 weeks, then I take my numbers over and see if I get about the same readings as on my setups. He uses different tent producer but the same trays, 2 QB configurations, one bar lamp and one 4 QB closed configuration, each for 1.2x1.2, same as my stuff. I think this would help a lot to handle your main cost producer more efficient.

Building a lamp, shouldn't scare you at all  is rather easy. Time for home HID setups is over (my opinion).. suggesting a new grower a HID lamp.. is a bit questionable. The grow shop seems to "suggest" what they want to get rid off.. putting a HPS in your tent might end in a foxtail party  (is not the good kind of party ) You want to go LED.. you really really wanna do that  I agree very much with the rest in here

Edited October 19, 2020 by Prom
just to many typos ^^

[oldsandals]

For me in the past a single or double CMH fixture has been great and gives a nice colour light. HPS and MH separate lights next to each other has worked for me too but the MH does add a lot of leaf. The blue light is important for the stronger stems compared to HPS alone. I have not tried all the very recent LED stuff and from my friends who design their own LED boards they say its working out great and much better for a hot climate to cool an indoor area. 

My friends LED flower area for example. 

 

[PsyCLown]

@Prom I agree completely. Rather a blurple light than HID for a beginner.

However if budget can be stretched, without a doubt go for a decent Quantum Board! You won't regret it.

 

With HID, an AC is preferable or at least a cooltube setup.

[Master_G]

We Manufacture quantum boards locally. Professional company building the lights with full warrantees and LOA’s on all products used. We are also cost effective. 

Cant drop my website here so feel free to chat via dm.

[Greg]

Thanks For All the reply guys!!! 

You've successfully turned my 3 simple choices into one huuge headace 

i'm going to consider a quantum board, a trusted friend recommended someone.  If its at the right price. 

For all that are selling lights  here's my number   0734809657. Message me and we can figure our logistics and price. 

Tent size is 2.5 X 1.5 wide but shallow. 

 

If i cant come within a reasonable price ill probably go the HPS setup. 

Thanks @DamDave that site clarified that ill need 2 CMH lights to achieve a good spec. 

I'm not rushing into this right now, will only get all this setup for next year. 

 

And has anyone who is selling these  led light's tested the lights using a Photometer? 

Watch this: 

He compared some lights and i was quite surprised by the differences. And because Yes LED's are the latest efficient tech its still a relatively young market and i don't think the tech is at a level where good quality lights can be found at a cheap price.  and i cant go over budget. 

At least with HPS is a tried and tested method and many people are quite happy with the results. Its within my budget with a warranty. And because im planning this grow only for next year, making it more of a winter grow might help with the temp issue till i can save up for a decent LED/ Quantum board or Ventilation. 

But thanks again for all the help an input everyone, all this ranting does help me figure the best possible solution for where im at. 

Tops to this community!!!

[Bakstein420]

I know a few growers that swear by their 1000w HPS. As long as you can manage the heat and handle the electricity bill, then you're golden.

[Greg]

@Bakstein420 I dont pay the electricity bill  so for now thats not a worry. But heat will definitely be something to consider 

[West Coast Vaper]

@Prom I agree completely. Rather a blurple light than HID for a beginner.

However if budget can be stretched, without a doubt go for a decent Quantum Board! You won't regret it.
 
With HID, an AC is preferable or at least a cooltube setup.

I have a@growopz QB75 bar and a 300w no name Chinese blurple. After investigation with the help of the forum probably only 100w.
Growing @Bay Seeds Glamberry one under QB and one under blurple. They seem to be keeping pace with each other.
I'd recommend QB any day. 1500 for a QB versus not even sure how much a blurple 300w is. Stopped going down that road when you guys got me hooked on the latest diode's. And probably cheaper to run.

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[PsyCLown]

I have a@growopz QB75 bar and a 300w no name Chinese blurple. After investigation with the help of the forum probably only 100w.
Growing @Bay Seeds Glamberry one under QB and one under blurple. They seem to be keeping pace with each other.
I'd recommend QB any day. 1500 for a QB versus not even sure how much a blurple 300w is. Stopped going down that road when you guys got me hooked on the latest diode's. And probably cheaper to run.

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That's exactly it.

The Samsung diodes found on most quantum boards are far more efficient than the older tech diodes which are found on blurple and some other led lights.

So price per watt when comparing old led tech to new led tech may seem good, however its not Watts which grow plants. Its also not lumens which grow plants. Its the usable ppfd / par and when comparing the usable ppfd of an older led light to a newer led light it becomes clear which is the winner and which offers the best value for money. Especially after you've been running the light for a few years.

A 120w blurple light may only have output equal to an 80w quantum board light for example (just an example, not actual figures).
That extra 40w adds up in terms of heat and electricity usage over 3 years or so.

MiGro actually did a comparison of a few lights based off this. The less efficient lights were cheaper to buy but long term they quickly fell down the list and the higher efficiency lights became the cheaper lights.

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[West Coast Vaper]

That's exactly it.

The Samsung diodes found on most quantum boards are far more efficient than the older tech diodes which are found on blurple and some other led lights.

So price per watt when comparing old led tech to new led tech may seem good, however its not Watts which grow plants. Its also not lumens which grow plants. Its the usable ppfd / par and when comparing the usable ppfd of an older led light to a newer led light it becomes clear which is the winner and which offers the best value for money. Especially after you've been running the light for a few years.

A 120w blurple light may only have output equal to an 80w quantum board light for example (just an example, not actual figures).
That extra 40w adds up in terms of heat and electricity usage over 3 years or so.

MiGro actually did a comparison of a few lights based off this. The less efficient lights were cheaper to buy but long term they quickly fell down the list and the higher efficiency lights became the cheaper lights.



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Nice explanation, thanks.

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