Teaming with Microbes - Jeff Lowenfels

[ORGANinc.]

Its been a while since I've wanted to start reading this book.

I wanted to find a hard copy but found a pdf for free on the web somewhere instead. As things start to quiet down for the year, I have some time to research more and grasp a deeper understanding of the world of the microbes.

The only reason I have been dying to read this book is because of this forum, so I started Monday morning and I just finished. This book is probably the most descriptive regarding life in the Rhizosphere. The species of different life can extend into the tens of thousand, but that's not the point. The point is to understand at least vaguely the soil food web, and the phenomenon that occurs when that same soil food web's rules get twisted, these genius fungi... 

The book starts off by explaining the traditional process followed by all before any information was available regarding the life in the soil, the transactions that take place, and lastly the importance of that life. It then says, you need to understand all the players in the soil food web before you can begin to put together/craft/fix/amend your soils. What stands out in this book for me is the writers acknowledgement that not all microbes were made symbiotic or beneficial for the rootzone, but (big but coming here) these microbes are just as important, as they play a vital role in keeping the balance, a balance that is ever so crucial.   

The first thoughts that follow any type of research is application, How can I enable this perfect system, if its not already up to this standard. This lead me to believe, it nots so much about what needs to be done, but what needs to be left alone. Creating the perfect environment is A the most important part, without a properly balanced substrate, we have  networks/highways/tunnels unable to support proper water/air transfer and most importantly nutrient transfer. Then the diversity of your micro organisms. Luckily we have a plethora of products that can be used to increase these populations, these bacteria and fungi are out doing the ground work, housing organic and mineral matter, employing enzymes to do their bidding (which is actually the plants bidding) and then finally reaching the end of their life cycle somehow and releasing that ever so necessary nutrients.

It ends with stating simply that nobody ever fertilized an Old growth Forrest, intricate symbiotic relationships dictated which nutrient is needed and a vastly colonized network of fungi extending far from the rootzone were ready to exchange for exudate. An unbelievable process that seemingly works better with less interference.

Starting today with " Teaming with Fungi''  - thanks to all who mentioned the book above.  

   

Edited December 2, 2020 by ORGANinc.

[Candyman]

I find this topic extremely interesting. I've also read quite a bit of Jeff's writings and watched some of his talks on YT. Always a facinating topic with so much new stuff to learn. 

My current biggest frustration is taking all this scientific knowledge, which is based on nature out there in some natural habitat with a ecosystem where most life forms have pretty much been allowed to operate without any human or outside influence and applying it in a practical manner to my situation. Lets put it this way. Taking the science of the soil food web where the soil in a forrest have been left undisturbed by humans for many years, and applying that science to potting soil from the nursery in small fabric pots using very poor quality municipal water is not a straight forward thing. The symbiosis in the soil food web can take a very long time to establish. Hardly something that can be truly maximized of it's worth with "new" soil from the nursery sitting inside a container of sorts for maximum about a year before being disturbed on all layers again. So growing with small containers where you will disturb the layers of the soil after harvesting the plant, cannot really benefit from the soil food web or am I missing something?

Edited December 2, 2020 by Candyman

[ORGANinc.]

39 minutes ago, Candyman said:

I find this topic extremely interesting. I've also read quite a bit of Jeff's writings and watched some of his talks on YT. Always a facinating topic with so much new stuff to learn. 

My current biggest frustration is taking all this scientific knowledge, which is based on nature out there in some natural habitat with a ecosystem where most life forms have pretty much been allowed to operate without any human or outside influence and applying it in a practical manner to my situation. Lets put it this way. Taking the science of the soil food web where the soil in a forrest have been left undisturbed by humans for many years, and applying that science to potting soil from the nursery in small fabric pots using very poor quality municipal water is not a straight forward thing. The symbiosis in the soil food web can take a very long time to establish. Hardly something that can be truly maximized of it's worth with "new" soil from the nursery sitting inside a container of sorts for maximum about a year before being disturbed on all layers again. So growing with small containers where you will disturb the layers of the soil after harvesting the plant, cannot really benefit from the soil food web or am I missing something?

You are quite right. The soil will never be off the bat as good as the soil you find deep in the undisturbed forest somewhere, however, that is to say that you are growing massive old oak trees in potting soil, which you are not and the B:F ratio would be around 1:50 - 1:100. For cannabis a slightly higher amount of Fungi is suitable. 

Recreating the scenario to the best of your ability is the only thing you are trying to do, Add your colonies and cook your soil for no less than a month. Bacteria and fungi can double in a matter of hours.  

[Bos]

It is a very interesting topic on which I' ve also spent countless hours. The rabbithole is deep....

We wont ever be able to copy mother nature 100%, we can try as best we can.

From what I've read, Fungi takes longer than bacteria to colonize soil, so initially your soil should theoretically be more bacteria dominant. Cannabis being an annual we tend to rotate the soil every time we plant, but this concept is actually flawed as we damage the soil food web when we disturb the soil. Where in 'nature' does anyone rotate or change the soil..???

Many growers harvest their plants and then just replant in the same soil, same pot. Many have reported that their plants actually grow better the second and third time around. 

In an experiment I've changed over to much larger tubs-75lt in the greenhouse, trying to copythe ''no till'' organic conceptas best I can. Prepping my pots 30days in advance to allow the soil mix (after 60day cook) to settle and the microbes to do their thing. Believe it may assist with the Fungi/Bacteria balance and give the Fungi a headstart in an undisturbed enviroment. But most fungii only grow in symbiosis with the plant roots (exudates) so will do multiple innoculations with AACT to make sure.

Cover cropping also has benefits for preserving and stimulating the microbes.

Otherwise a 'no till' bed in the garden that you could prep in advance may be the closest you'll get, unless there is a forest nearby....

 

[ORGANinc.]

8 minutes ago, Bos said:

It is a very interesting topic on which I' ve also spent countless hours. The rabbithole is deep....

We wont ever be able to copy mother nature 100%, we can try as best we can.

From what I've read, Fungi takes longer than bacteria to colonize soil, so initially your soil should theoretically be more bacteria dominant. Cannabis being an annual we tend to rotate the soil every time we plant, but this concept is actually flawed as we damage the soil food web when we disturb the soil. Where in 'nature' does anyone rotate or change the soil..???

Many growers harvest their plants and then just replant in the same soil, same pot. Many have reported that their plants actually grow better the second and third time around. 

In an experiment I've changed over to much larger tubs-75lt in the greenhouse, trying to copythe ''no till'' organic conceptas best I can. Prepping my pots 30days in advance to allow the soil mix (after 60day cook) to settle and the microbes to do their thing. Believe it may assist with the Fungi/Bacteria balance and give the Fungi a headstart in an undisturbed enviroment. But most fungi only grow in symbiosis with the plant roots (exudates) so will do multiple innoculations with AACT to make sure.

Cover cropping also has benefits for preserving and stimulating the microbes.

Otherwise a 'no till' bed in the garden that you could prep in advance may be the closest you'll get, unless there is a forest nearby....

 

The topic is vast and covers everything regarding growing plants. 

Yes you are correct the fungi is a bit slower at the mark, so focus on fungi foods and additional inoculation is definitely beneficial. You should see great results in 75lt organic pots. I've chatted to many members saying the same about better runs second and third time around.

I think there will always be a degree of harm caused to the microbiome, but I do not lose sleep over it. Get the root ball out and transplant. Remaining root system will be used as food. Continue inoculating every 1-2 weeks. 

 

 

[Candyman]

Happy days if you have a greenhouse with big no-till beds. With such a setup I can fully grasp the integration with the soil food web. My feeling is that this is beyond most backyard home growers. By the time I harvest a 7-8 month old plant that has spend most of it's life in a 20l fabric pot, its just one big root mass left in the soil. So, what do you do? Leave the stub in the ground and plant a new young plant right next to it? Has someone done something like this in small containers?

For me, it's unfortunate, but I have to somehow start every time with new fresh soil coming from somewhere. Now, one might have a couple of big tubs where one would mature soil mixes with fungal and bacterial amendments and utilize this as source for your pots, but you will inevitable start every year with virgin soil with regards to the food soil web.

If I had to practically visualize the soil food web, I would compare it to the network system of a big factory. There are many workers and many different roles in a factory. There are also many machines and departments in such a factory. The network system integrates and links it all together in symbiosis so that efficiency and efficacy is maximized on every level and front. When the network goes out, some people in the factory stop working. They are fully dependent on the network for their day to day operations and without it they cannot continue. Some other workers and machines in the factory however are less influenced by the network going down and although they may experience time delays and some drop in efficiency, they can pretty much continue their day to day operations without the network. It's the same in soil with microbes and the soil food web. 

 

[ORGANinc.]

4 hours ago, Candyman said:

Happy days if you have a greenhouse with big no-till beds. With such a setup I can fully grasp the integration with the soil food web. My feeling is that this is beyond most backyard home growers. By the time I harvest a 7-8 month old plant that has spend most of it's life in a 20l fabric pot, its just one big root mass left in the soil. So, what do you do? Leave the stub in the ground and plant a new young plant right next to it? Has someone done something like this in small containers?

For me, it's unfortunate, but I have to somehow start every time with new fresh soil coming from somewhere. Now, one might have a couple of big tubs where one would mature soil mixes with fungal and bacterial amendments and utilize this as source for your pots, but you will inevitable start every year with virgin soil with regards to the food soil web.

If I had to practically visualize the soil food web, I would compare it to the network system of a big factory. There are many workers and many different roles in a factory. There are also many machines and departments in such a factory. The network system integrates and links it all together in symbiosis so that efficiency and efficacy is maximized on every level and front. When the network goes out, some people in the factory stop working. They are fully dependent on the network for their day to day operations and without it they cannot continue. Some other workers and machines in the factory however are less influenced by the network going down and although they may experience time delays and some drop in efficiency, they can pretty much continue their day to day operations without the network. It's the same in soil with microbes and the soil food web. 

 

Ok yes, the consensus it that the bigger the microbiome is, the better.

so bigger pots will get bigger results and that’s completely normal, more space for roots. More micro biology etc. etc. but in no way is this system limited to the space it is in. 

I know pretty decently sized plants coming from 20l pots and running a full life cycle in 20weeks and under, then same pots going again.  It all depend on what size of plant you are happy with, if organic can’t do it, then might as well seek alternative methods. 

But I do believe a perfectly working diversity of micro organisms can deliver the size and the quality. It’s just a matter of ticking the box’s. I have not come close to getting my system working well enough to speak for soil science, but the potential is incredible. So I’ll keep at it.

And to build onto your analogy, yes quite the same, however, there are bad guys. And they kill, destroy, and eat roots so a warehouse that’s got a few murderers... but it’s not all bad. Because when these killers nematodes do the deed, they release more useable nutrients. 

Same goes for much of the species. Their tastes do vary like in the animal kingdom. But it’s all for the resulting organic matter.