Co2 supplementation

[Prom]

Open manual is fun in the beginning... like a friend, she opened a guest house here. Na, i can hose water my garden.

Guess how long it took her to ask to install a automated irrigation system? 

You have a range to stay in, below little addon effect, above even bad for your plants growth, 900 to 1100ppm. I would let a sensor do the job and try to keep it around 1000ppm during light cycle. And think into that direction, you would go skydive with a home made parachute?  if, then stay rather on the safe side, get a product people recommend for indoor growing. Turning your gas on and off by hand is as weird as turning your light cycles on and off by hand... nobody does that over longer time  before you get a timer for your plug. 

 

[TheUltimateNoob]

How are you going to deal with humidity buildup? Invest another few K into a dehumidifier?
Just how sealed off and isolated is your actual grow space. What is the size of the space around your grow. Ie. Is your tent in a room? How sealed is that room? 
Trying to seal off a grow space, and still cater for all the needed air exchange/minute, while keeping humidity and temperatures in range will be a feat on its own to dial in.
Are you able to provide the plants with the DLI needed for the extra CO2...otherwise maintaining double ppm concentrations is a waste of money. 
Really I'm shooting in the dark here as you haven't shared details about your space, your lights etc....
It seems a super expensive, complicated  move, for not wanting a higher yield...
 

Asking the right questions

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[SoloKush]

@Prom lmao you know you couldn't be more right.. I didn't sleep last night busy doing my research and came to the conclusion that I would not be able to efficiently run Co2 without a controller so I let my friends know this morning and I dropped the ball on a eco technics unit from gthydro.. hoping to have all setup by wed or Thurs..  

[SoloKush]

Apologies it was bought from growguru 

[Dookie69]

Hey Solokush and Prom

Just stumbled on this post again, I’m not getting notifications, guess I should subscribe to it?
I bought a controller like the one in my picture, probably 3 weeks ago. They must have sold out.
Initially I just wanted a co2 meter but for an extra 1k odd I got the controller. Brilliant piece of kit, and less than half the price of the same type of device from the hydro shops...
So on my setup, it’s 3 small interlinked rooms, like small workshops. The first room just fits a 5x5, the second just fits a 4x4 and the last one is where I keep the nutes etc.
I will probably not use tents next grow, rather just the ladies on a raised table.
I have the following:
2 x AC Infinity 8” fans which used to extract outside, one for each tent, each with a mother of a carbon filter (they now scrub the inside recycled air so little odour leaks out)
1 x 18,000 inverter btu a/c with Sensibo control;
2 x Meaco 20l Dehumidifiers run 24/7
1 x CO2 controller with regulator from a hydro shop. The CO2 line is T’d off, one to each tent, run to the back of oscillating fans high up;
7 x fans, some small oscillating, some floor standing
2 x Autopot systems with air domes;
1 x Migro Aray 720 in 5x5
2 x Mars SP250 in 4x4
3 x Sonoff devices to monitor Temp and Humidity in room and 2 tents.
1 x 3k Inverter on 400a/h gel batteries, this runs 1/2 lights and all fans/ extraction for around 3hrs.

My intention was never to have a sealed setup, it just evolved that way, mainly because of a need to exclude outside humidity and to recycle ac air.
I must say there is almost no odour and zero noise outside the room. It also eliminates any weird stuff getting in like pollen, bugs, spores etc.

The CO2 came for the same reason as your idea, to keep the plants ok in a sealed setup and to exploit summer heat next year, hopefully.

I don’t think the air flow rate is that critical because in such a small space it reaches your set value and maintains it there really well. The CO2 takes forever to dissipate / get consumed so at this stage I do think it is very economical once the kit is purchased. The gas bottle I got was a frikkin 100kg beast, almost as tall as me... next time I’ll go for a third of that!! You still need to hire the co2 bottle every month which is a bitch.

Prom’s warning about the dangers of CO2 are well heeded, I will definitely be making sure there is ample ventilation when I work in there from now on!

Anyway, it’s a steep learning curve for me, happy to share ideas etc.

Peace


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[Prom]

3 hours ago, SoloKush said:

@Prom lmao you know you couldn't be more right.. I didn't sleep last night busy doing my research and came to the conclusion that I would not be able to efficiently run Co2 without a controller so I let my friends know this morning and I dropped the ball on a eco technics unit from gthydro.. hoping to have all setup by wed or Thurs..  

That looks more decent  and i order my curing bags from growguru.co.za, very fast, very reliable guys 

You will be way more happy with that unit then standing up at night to open a valve 

Please run a diary... very curious to see a report how often you have to water and feed... with the co2 and the light, they should consume a lot more as normal, get that into calculation too. They will need more nutrition and ask more often for water.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Prom
To stupid to type ^^

[Prom]

1 hour ago, Dookie69 said:

Hey Solokush and Prom

Just stumbled on this post again, I’m not getting notifications, guess I should subscribe to it?
I bought a controller like the one in my picture, probably 3 weeks ago. They must have sold out.
Initially I just wanted a co2 meter but for an extra 1k odd I got the controller. Brilliant piece of kit, and less than half the price of the same type of device from the hydro shops...
So on my setup, it’s 3 small interlinked rooms, like small workshops. The first room just fits a 5x5, the second just fits a 4x4 and the last one is where I keep the nutes etc.
I will probably not use tents next grow, rather just the ladies on a raised table.
I have the following:
2 x AC Infinity 8” fans which used to extract outside, one for each tent, each with a mother of a carbon filter (they now scrub the inside recycled air so little odour leaks out)
1 x 18,000 inverter btu a/c with Sensibo control;
2 x Meaco 20l Dehumidifiers run 24/7
1 x CO2 controller with regulator from a hydro shop. The CO2 line is T’d off, one to each tent, run to the back of oscillating fans high up;
7 x fans, some small oscillating, some floor standing
2 x Autopot systems with air domes;
1 x Migro Aray 720 in 5x5
2 x Mars SP250 in 4x4
3 x Sonoff devices to monitor Temp and Humidity in room and 2 tents.
1 x 3k Inverter on 400a/h gel batteries, this runs 1/2 lights and all fans/ extraction for around 3hrs.

My intention was never to have a sealed setup, it just evolved that way, mainly because of a need to exclude outside humidity and to recycle ac air.
I must say there is almost no odour and zero noise outside the room. It also eliminates any weird stuff getting in like pollen, bugs, spores etc.

The CO2 came for the same reason as your idea, to keep the plants ok in a sealed setup and to exploit summer heat next year, hopefully.

I don’t think the air flow rate is that critical because in such a small space it reaches your set value and maintains it there really well. The CO2 takes forever to dissipate / get consumed so at this stage I do think it is very economical once the kit is purchased. The gas bottle I got was a frikkin 100kg beast, almost as tall as me... next time I’ll go for a third of that!! You still need to hire the co2 bottle every month which is a bitch.

Prom’s warning about the dangers of CO2 are well heeded, I will definitely be making sure there is ample ventilation when I work in there from now on!

Anyway, it’s a steep learning curve for me, happy to share ideas etc.

Peace


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your tent units are feet or meter?  is one of those measurements needed to get a good picture

[Dookie69]

your tent units are feet or meter?  is one of those measurements needed to get a good picture

Sorry, good point. In feet. Do they make 5mx 5m tents?

So it’s a 1,5m by 1,5m and a 1,2 by 1,2m.


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[Dookie69]

Sorry, good point. In feet. Do they make 5mx 5m tents?

So it’s a 1,5m by 1,5m and a 1,2 by 1,2m.


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Having said that the tents are mostly open, I pretty much just use the sides for air movement control and the tent structure to hang things off.
I find that in my sealed room setup, the humidity spikes in a closed tent after lights out so with it being open, the increased volume of air has a higher capacity for holding moisture better. I’ll post a picture later.


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[Prom]

12 minutes ago, Dookie69 said:

Sorry, good point. In feet. Do they make 5mx 5m tents?

So it’s a 1,5m by 1,5m and a 1,2 by 1,2m.


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Biggest I know you can buy is 6x12 ... meters hehehe

[Prom]

9 minutes ago, Dookie69 said:

Having said that the tents are mostly open, I pretty much just use the sides for air movement control and the tent structure to hang things off.
I find that in my sealed room setup, the humidity spikes in a closed tent after lights out so with it being open, the increased volume of air has a higher capacity for holding moisture better. I’ll post a picture later.


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Why not just use the frame to hang stuff and leave the rest away, if you don't wanna close anyhow. Without the disturbing sides, you have also easier access. You miss the reflector.. but when you run CO2.. light is not your issue  you should have plenty.. as plenty that sunglasses become a must.

[Prom]

2 hours ago, Dookie69 said:

1 x Migro Aray 720 in 5x5
2 x Mars SP250 in 4x4

The Sp250 is for 1.2x0.6 (meter ^^) 2 for a 1.2x1.2 (4x4) seems right, but not enough to justify CO2. I use between 410 and 480 watts on 1.2x1.2 (4x4), friend down the road with the Quantum Flux Meter has a 600 watt lamp on a dimmer on the same area. So 600 watts not enough either.. count 4 of those SP250 and you get to the point where CO2 makes sense to install. Just.. check your ventilation is good on those lamps.

I don't know the Migro Aray 720.. but if the 720 is watts.. that is not enough for a 1.5x1.5 to run CO2 in.

And again.. my personal opinion.. I am not good with CO2 and avoided to get into that mess. Enough busy with cooking climate the normal way  

[SoloKush]

@Prom the tent im running is 1.5mX1.5mX2.2m i use to be on the international forums and all they use to measure are feet 5X5foot so got used to saying that..

The tent I won't run Co2 as they get constant fresh air..

the new grown space is actually 3mX2.4m and that's properly sealed where il add the Co2..

I've been looking at the setup manuals for the ecotechniks and all the set up have steps for adding extraction and fans to the controller. I only plan to use the co2 controller to regulate the co2 and not to control any ventilation etc hope it works out..

I honestly don't have the time to do a diary on the grow but I will keep you updated as to feedings ppms and the overall conditions etc 

Just need to figure out the installation part..

The guy at growguru said to call him and he will assist in setting it up as he himself used the same Co2 unit for a year and half..

[Prom]

@SoloKush The post before was for Dookie69... we already figured out that your room has enough light wattage 

You have a mission and are very determined  so sitting here with a big smile. Just keep your wits together when you enter the room (bit dizzy, light tingle in your fingers, just leave and ask yourself the questions outside the room, never hesitate). And yes, please.. keep me posted 

 

[Prom]

@SoloKush as you are THAT determined.. let me tell you a short but rather important lesson in regards.. you do not look for more yield but top bud.

Most in here heard about the friend down the road.. we grow on the same setup.. QBs, fertilizers, rain water.. he got the only Quantum Flux Meter i know a guy owning down here.. PsyClown might be the second soon.

But.. now the more convincing part. This friend never grew indoor before.. never. On his second indoor grow he put some GSC Autos from Nirvana in and when we went testing to Futurama, the guy from Canabliss said that this is the highest ever GSC he tested.. with 18.7% potency. He isn't also the detailed, I check every parameter, guy. Light he sets with the Quantum Flux and gives fertilizer what ever his table says ^^ checks morning and evening and that is about it, no training, nothing. If a plant grows out of size.. he just cuts or dumps it outside for less hassle.

So is not him doing something special, is just the light at the right distance on all stages. As said.. tell your guys.. if they want the best you can grow.. you need that tool, I am not joking here or wanna make you buy stuff. Light has a huge impact on taste and potency. Main issue.. I have zero experience with the micromol PAR needed for a CO2 setup on each plant stage.. would need some read up.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Prom
English hard when stoned

[Dookie69]

I’ll look into getting a Mars 3000 at some point to add to the SP250’s, can’t add to the Migro.
Main reason for the CO2 was to maintain a closed system, anything else is a bonus.
Here are some pics







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[Prom]

32 minutes ago, Dookie69 said:

I’ll look into getting a Mars 3000 at some point to add to the SP250’s, can’t add to the Migro.
Main reason for the CO2 was to maintain a closed system, anything else is a bonus.
Here are some pics







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 Why a closed system? I would only consider it when I bring CO2 into play. As you are allowed to grow by law.. you live down wind of the sewage treatment plant or beside the garbage disposal? Or you think fresh air just sucks?   Or just in the mood to try CO2? Must be a corvid related epidemic, people get so bored, they just try to entertain them self  

I really like your setup.. easy to vent, organized.. sexy.. so why again you have to bring CO2 into play? and as you are not having the needed micromol.. reduce to 400ppm.. not killing you, less cost, lasts longer.. same result. Just flooding the room with CO2.. will not make the monster yield.. if you fight with heat.. the temp sweet spot gets raised to 28 degrees.. but just for that all the hassle with the CO2.. not sure I would put up with it.

 

[Dookie69]

Thanks Prom, it’s actually looking a bit messy as things have been added to the room after the initial setup.
I suppose it might have something to do with experience, you never know how things pan out in the country, what opportunities may arise. Might help to be prepared, who knows?
So for now I’ll keep on keeping on, if I get the sh*ts with CO2 I’ll bin it. If not I might exploit it later....

Appreciate your candid input, I’ll be knocking on your door for more
Peace


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[SoloKush]

@Dookie69 @Prom guys can you tell me how necessary it is to vent in a sealed room ? Do I have to vent at all? I assumed that since the plant is getting the added Co2 its not compulsory to vent .. ? Aside from when I enter the room to tend to them

Btw great setup you have there @Dookie69 how often is your Co2 tent set up to extract the air inside ?

I dont plan on running any extraction except for carbon filter inside near the 2 doors to the grow space..

So I hope that the Co2 controller i bought (ecotechnics) works without the extraction port connected to actual extraction system.. 

Oh and the Co2 regulator I bought came with 2 seals for attaching when screwing it on the tank.. thing is they seem to be abit thick and plastic ish 

[SoloKush]

@Prom what wattage quantum boards you grow with ? Brand ? I love to hear how different brands are performing..ùBut more importantly what distance are you at in the different stages ?? I've seen much more frosty buds when I had my lights at like 50cm to 70cm above canopy using 320watt and 3 X 240watt boards in 5X5

@Dookie69 whats your distance from canopy?

 

[Dookie69]

@Dookie69 @Prom guys can you tell me how necessary it is to vent in a sealed room ? Do I have to vent at all? I assumed that since the plant is getting the added Co2 its not compulsory to vent .. ? Aside from when I enter the room to tend to them
Btw great setup you have there @Dookie69 how often is your Co2 tent set up to extract the air inside ?
I dont plan on running any extraction except for carbon filter inside near the 2 doors to the grow space..
So I hope that the Co2 controller i bought (ecotechnics) works without the extraction port connected to actual extraction system.. 
Oh and the Co2 regulator I bought came with 2 seals for attaching when screwing it on the tank.. thing is they seem to be abit thick and plastic ish 

@SoloKush for the most part my tents remain open on at least 2 sides. This is because the humidity gets out of hand when the lights go out.
Each tent has a carbon filter and an AC Infinity T8 setup in the usual way, however they extract to the room and not the outside.
Each T8 has a temp/ humidity probe inside its respective tent; and they will turn on and off based on those settings (max and min humidity and temp). They serve really to assist air movement and to scrub odour from the room.
My room only vents when the door is opened, or left open for a bit due to high CO2 levels.
The split a/c has the job of cooling the air from the T8 in lines and the dehumidifiers, and it also dries the air.


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[Dookie69]

@Prom what wattage quantum boards you grow with ? Brand ? I love to hear how different brands are performing..ùBut more importantly what distance are you at in the different stages ?? I've seen much more frosty buds when I had my lights at like 50cm to 70cm above canopy using 320watt and 3 X 240watt boards in 5X5
@Dookie69 whats your distance from canopy?
 

SoloKush my controller also came with two seemingly sh&tty plastic washers. I think one is a spare, at any rate I only used one. When I turned on the gas there was an audible leak. After puzzling a bit I decided to lick the washer and that sealed it properly. I meant to go to Afrox to possibly find a better washer but I suspect they all like that, I think it’s Teflon.
My Mars are 450mm above canopy and the Migro 160mm. (Well that’s what manufacturer specify)


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[SoloKush]

@Dookie69 so since you only vent the tent into the room which is sealed except for when you open the door , I'm sure il be fine with no extraction as long as I can keep humidity low which I have a 12000btu and might consider an extra dehumidifier, what do you think?

Thank you for the tip bro will definitely give the lick the washer a shot 

Edited February 23, 2021 by SoloKush

[Dookie69]

I’m running 2 dehumidifiers and managing to keep humidity in the room between 50 and 60%. I’d like to see it lower but there is a lot of transpiration from the ladies, I’ve never had such thirsty plants before! So to combat it I’m having to run the ac lowish, they seem to dehumidify better at lower temp settings (“cool”). This in turn lowers the tent temps but that can be controlled to an extent with tent sides restricting air flow a bit so the lights warm the air in the tent space.
Problem comes in when lights go off, humidity spikes and tent sides must come down. Toying with the idea of using small fan heaters in the tents during lights out to help dry the air.
So yeah, dialling it all in slowly, it’s a mission.


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[SoloKush]

I'm hoping the 12000btu for the 3mX2.4m space is enough during lights out.. otherwise will have to get another portable ac unit to add to it..