Checking trichomes and harvest timing

[Dookie69]

Hey guys and girls, I’m on my second grow and it’s gone a lot smoother than the first one for sure.

I’m hoping my harvest timing is right this time, I suspect the first time I harvested early.

 

So I’ve decided to use the “days” quoted by the seed banks (in this case Dinafem) who give 75 days and 80 days respectively for the two different Auto’s.

 

Is this number of days from seed, from germination or from first pistols?

 

How accurate are these quoted days (what is the range of early vs later, or are they mostly on time, or late? (I realise many factors come into it to influence the harvest date)

 

I have been taking minute snips off the sugar leaves close to the top of the bud to check trichomes with a microscope, but evidently the check is meant to be on the bud itself (calyxes?) is that correct?

I tried this and found that the trichomes on the bud were less mature than the ones on the sugar leaves, is that observation correct?

 

I am determined to try timing the harvest properly, with Final Part,

Flora Kleen, pH neutral water and 3 days of darkness.

I started the Final Part (GHE Ripen) at 2 weeks before the quoted number of days by the seed bank, assuming the count was from germination,

In other words 75 days minus 14, day 61.

If this period comes to an end and the correct clear /milky/amber ratio is still not there, do I continue with Final Part or simply Flora Kleen then water?

They talk of using pH neutral water for final flush, I assume this means pH7?

I am growing in Autopots, F1 soil (coco) and have used GHE tri part nutes. This tent has Blue Amnesia XXL Autoflowers.

 

I’m going to post a pic of a plant which I thought was ready, but trichomes are mostly clear to slightly milky on the bud, and it looks like new bud is still growing, looking at the light green bud and white pistols.

 

Some of the branches need support because they are lolling over from the weight I assume.

According to the 75 day harvest, these are in day 65, so theoretically they have 10 days left...

 

 

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[Dookie69]

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[PsyCLown]

I always check the trichomes and harvest based on the trichomes alone.

I tried florakleen before and simulated something similar to ripen, didn't notice a difference. I do not flush anymore, waste of time.
If you want to try them go for it.

The trichomes on the sugar leaves do mature quicker than the trichomes on the bud itself. Those plants look as if they may require a bit longer to mature.
Based on my experience, which is limited with autos, they still require the same amount of time as a photoperiod to flower and mature. They just go into flower by themselves.

I'd give it a week or 2 then check with microscope, I too use a microscope and cut small pieces of the bud off and check the trichomes that way.

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[West Coast Vaper]

Morning all. What tell tale signs would let you if it's time to chop if one does not have access to microscopes or a decent zoom on the camera?

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[PsyCLown]

Morning all. What tell tale signs would let you if it's time to chop if one does not have access to microscopes or a decent zoom on the camera?

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This becomes more difficult and there is no way to guarantee that its actually mature and ready for harvest, so a thumb suck at best.
You need a loupe or microscope to be precise and know for sure.

The buds will form, then fatten and pistils become small, then a few weeks and ready for harvest.

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[Weedomics]

Morning all. What tell tale signs would let you if it's time to chop if one does not have access to microscopes or a decent zoom on the camera?

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In my experience it's pritty hard to tell when the ladies are read to the naked as a new grower. I first started with a magnifying glass and zommed in alil with my camera.

And depending on what type of high quality you require depending on when u harvest. The Trichomes appear clear, then milky, then a kind of yellow tips.
Clear means she's still got some time left.
From word of mouth most growers wait until 80%of Trichomes are. Milky. Iv found my best harvest was when almost all the Trichomes are milky.
Yellow tips make a sleepy smoke.
Knock a MF out

But as a grower who just loves the physics of this plant I recommend that u try all 3 and even leave one plant to over ripen if u can. So you know first had the differences

I never take anyone's word at first. Id take the information given and put it in the lad see the results and then decide what to do or what not to do.


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[CreX]

If you have no magnifier... My rule is to wait until All the pistols have turned brown...and before the leaves turn brown as well... That will get you a good smoke... 

My experience tells me that I only harvest after all the pistols are brown....maybe one or 2 new pistols, but that's the time... 

I actually only start checking trichomes when my pistols are almost all brown and still end up leaving the lady a bit longer

[Prom]

If you have no magnifiers.. get some  40x - 60x. If you have a photo camera and a macro lens, can use that too and zoom in on the computer. I prefer this method these days.. can also check plants in the back row ^^

I let my flowers ripen as long as I possibly can ... (endure)  The sugar leaves don't count, they get amber in any case, before I harvest.. and as you dress your buds by removing every single leaf bits on it with scissors or brush.. those go into the leftovers to hash anyhow. So you check your calyxes, as those you keep to smoke  When your sugar leaves are 100% amber, you usually also have color starting on the calyxes. Best tasty and most couchy weed you get when you have 50/50 milky/amber on your flowers.. also takes the longest.. patience is a bitch  but with all you grow, the longer you let it ripen, the more flavors go inside.

[PsyCLown]

If you have no magnifier... My rule is to wait until All the pistols have turned brown...and before the leaves turn brown as well... That will get you a good smoke... 
My experience tells me that I only harvest after all the pistols are brown....maybe one or 2 new pistols, but that's the time... 
I actually only start checking trichomes when my pistols are almost all brown and still end up leaving the lady a bit longer

I've noticed the same.

Pistils disappear into the bud then go brown, wait a bit longer and then harvest.

But I always check trichomes.

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[West Coast Vaper]

I've still got a week or two I think as she's been in flower 9 weeks now. Glamberry from @Bay Seeds.

Gonna have to invest in a looking gadget of sorts.

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[Dookie69]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I’m getting a clearer idea of when to harvest, but I’m still a bit unclear on how to work out when to switch to Final Part for example, assuming you want to do the following:
GHE flower nutes;
GHE rinse flush;
GHE Ripen;
GHE final part feed flush
PH neutral feed and darkness

At which stage on the plants do you stop “Flower” nutes?
For those of you who don’t flush, do you feed flower nutes right to the day of harvest?


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[Dookie69]

Sorry I refer to Flora Kleen as a flush / rinse.


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[Weedomics]

OK once my lady is in flower I runn all the way till the end with nutrition. Until one week before harvest. I then switch up with only ripen.

I feel in the plants natural habitat no one will flush. However this season I'm going to run a test with two of my clones. I will flush one and not the other. The flush is normally done in the last week. (guys please correct me if I'm wrong)

The 3days of darkness before harvest is to slow down the drying process from my opinion. I stand to be corrected.


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[Totemic]

8 hours ago, Weedomics said:

OK once my lady is in flower I runn all the way till the end with nutrition. Until one week before harvest. I then switch up with only ripen.

I feel in the plants natural habitat no one will flush. However this season I'm going to run a test with two of my clones. I will flush one and not the other. The flush is normally done in the last week. (guys please correct me if I'm wrong)

The 3days of darkness before harvest is to slow down the drying process from my opinion. I stand to be corrected.


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In its natural habitat it will experience a "flush". The biological activity in summer vs late autumn/winter. There is more biological activity in the hotter months which means more available nutrients. 

Flushing though is something you do when you have pH issues or salt buildup. The flush is to clear the soil. Flushing as a before harvest thing does nothing to improve the bud imo. 

2 or more days of darkness also doesn't make any huge impact. At best this treatment may or may not push the last of the trichomes milky, but it isn't a vastly noticible change. 

I don't flush. I don't do the darkness thing, and I continue to feed right up to harvest, but you'll have a 100 others tell you to flush etc. There are about as many ways to grow as there are growers. Best way is to find what works for you. You are going to be doing a test to compare so you already heading in the right direction. 

[PsyCLown]

In its natural habitat it will experience a "flush". The biological activity in summer vs late autumn/winter. There is more biological activity in the hotter months which means more available nutrients. 
Flushing though is something you do when you have pH issues or salt buildup. The flush is to clear the soil. Flushing as a before harvest thing does nothing to improve the bud imo. 
2 or more days of darkness also doesn't make any huge impact. At best this treatment may or may not push the last of the trichomes milky, but it isn't a vastly noticible change. 
I don't flush. I don't do the darkness thing, and I continue to feed right up to harvest, but you'll have a 100 others tell you to flush etc. There are about as many ways to grow as there are growers. Best way is to find what works for you. You are going to be doing a test to compare so you already heading in the right direction. 

I agree 100% with Totemic.

Flush, darkness and products such as ripen I feel are a waste of time and money.

You're welcome to try it yourself and make that decision yourself though, but many others have already been there and done that. Learnt thr hard way after much trial and error.

We provide this advice in hopes that it might save you some time, effort and money.

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[Prom]

 I flush in general and.. if I have the space, put them dark for 3 days

At the end you put the efforts in you are willed to do and endure. Flushing in Hydro is a must... at least that is my stand of knowledge. And as there is no build up in the medium, is mainly done to force the plants to use their storage.. result should be a less 'harsh' smoke. I agree that soil is tricky.. but mediums carrying no nutrition itself.. I would flush to enhance taste. I know every single pro grower in Europe, i know and have contact with, flushes his plants.

But again, your plants.. do what you think is right and correct. 

[CreX]

I'm all for a debate on a Sunday? 

I'm on the fence personally... 

I have had some ultra tasty outdoor that was smoother than a baby's backside, and there is no flushing outdoor, nor a 3 day darkness before harvest. 

From what I have understand, the plant has macro and micro nutrients uptake from the roots, and most of those nutrients are immobile, so a flush won't help remove any of the immobile nutes, you gonna have to manage that and not over feed on your own tho during flower.  

chlorophyll, being mostly nitrogen, which is a mobile nutrient is often blamed for the harshness of a smoke... And again you should be feeding less nitrogen toward harvest anyways so that you don't get a nitrogen tox which leads to much smaller buds in general. 

And then there's the cure... Flush or no flush... If you have a poor dry or cure method... It really won't make a difference to the end product. 

And as for higher terpines and floral smells, maintaining lower Temps throughout the grow leads to much stronger and complex terpine flavours. 

So does it make a difference... And if so what are the other potential benifits 

Edited March 7, 2021 by CreX
Extra words

[PsyCLown]

Haha, the life long debate as to whether you should flush cannabis or not.

Recently study showed that flushing makes little to no difference, if anything thr data points towards a tastier and smoother smoke from bud which has not had a flush. But differences were small.

I have not noticed any difference in terms of smoothness or taste between a flush or no flush.
I have noticed a far bigger difference depending on how well the plants were trimmed and how well they were cured. Bud which dried too quickly, even after being out into a jar with boveda to add humidity and left for weeks remained a harsh smoke.
Leafy bud is often a harsher smoke too.

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[ORGANinc.]

37 minutes ago, CreX said:

I'm all for a debate on a Sunday? 

I'm on the fence personally... 

I have had some ultra tasty outdoor that was smoother than a baby's backside, and there is no flushing outdoor, nor a 3 day darkness before harvest. 

From what I have understand, the plant has macro and micro nutrients uptake from the roots, and most of those nutrients are immobile, so a flush won't help remove any of the immobile nutes, you gonna have to manage that and not over feed on your own tho during flower.  

chlorophyll, being mostly nitrogen, which is a mobile nutrient is often blamed for the harshness of a smoke... And again you should be feeding less nitrogen toward harvest anyways so that you don't get a nitrogen tox which leads to much smaller buds in general. 

And then there's the cure... Flush or no flush... If you have a poor dry or cure method... It really won't make a difference to the end product. 

And as for higher terpines and floral smells, maintaining lower Temps throughout the grow leads to much stronger and complex terpine flavours. 

So does it make a difference... And if so what are the other potential benifits 

Agree with that sentiment, from what I understand the other nutrients get stuck in the vacuoles and chlorophylls get replace with anthocyianins (red,purple, pinkish colours). The excess doesn’t usually leave the plant, organic or synthetic. 

Pump enough sulfur in the plant and it will smell, Epsom salts can work given there’s not a huge surplus of magnesium. 

Depending on the type of growing style, I would say majority of grower need to flush, but what is flushing? 

Pouring liters and liters of water through your mediums? Or just watering instead of feeding, I think the benefits of just plain watering in mediums like soil, or slightly organic input which would happen to be using microbes would be the best. 

Reason I say is because you tryin to get majority of those nutrient used up. Redox potential is much better for reduction of built up minerals with regular water than super drenching. 

If is all synthetic hydro, coco and salts, super drenching would work best

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by ORGANinc.

[ORGANinc.]

43 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

Agree with that sentiment, from what I understand the other nutrients get stuck in the vacuoles and chlorophylls get replace with anthocyianins (red,purple, pinkish colours). The excess doesn’t usually leave the plant, organic or synthetic. 

Pump enough sulfur in the plant and it will smell, Epsom salts can work given there’s not a huge surplus of magnesium. 

Depending on the type of growing style, I would say majority of grower need to flush, but what is flushing? 

Pouring liters and liters of water through your mediums? Or just watering instead of feeding, I think the benefits of just plain watering in mediums like soil, or slightly organic input which would happen to be using microbes would be the best. 

Reason I say is because you tryin to get majority of those nutrient used up. Redox potential is much better for reduction of built up minerals with regular water than super drenching. 

If is all synthetic hydro, coco and salts, super drenching would work best

 

So to conclude - all depends on how much you feed, if you feed just enough, there would obviously be no reason. 

[PsyCLown]

So to conclude - all depends on how much you feed, if you feed just enough, there would obviously be no reason. 

But then what is classified as just enough?
Each plant will consumes nutes differently and use different ratios of nutes, some may use more N and Ca than others.

Give too little, plant won't flourish as well as it possibly could have.

Typically when feeding nutes continuously , they will build up with time. We generally feed plants far more than they need, it's easier to monitor the amount of nutes plants use when doing hydro - nutes are suspended in the water.
I believe they do not use much nutes at all compared to what we give them or what the feeding chart states in the bottle.

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[ORGANinc.]

5 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

But then what is classified as just enough?
Each plant will consumes nutes differently and use different ratios of nutes, some may use more N and Ca than others.

Give too little, plant won't flourish as well as it possibly could have.

Typically when feeding nutes continuously , they will build up with time. We generally feed plants far more than they need, it's easier to monitor the amount of nutes plants use when doing hydro - nutes are suspended in the water.
I believe they do not use much nutes at all compared to what we give them or what the feeding chart states in the bottle.

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That is most certainly always the case. And you really don’t want to under do it. Because that’s possible as well. 

Theres new studies done regarding the bud formation phase and fruit fill stage. That’s making headway’s in Agri at the moment. These are 2 different phases in the reproductive stage that make all the difference in yeild, from a commercial stand point. The way nutritional needs and hormone influences switch all during the flowering stage. Imperative information I would imagine. 

I think the plants will tell you, I havnt looked at a nutrient dosages on bottles, but I hear it works best to start at half dose and work your up up to full? They put just the right amount of micro nutrient chelates. These vital nutrients are responsible for the higher that usual uptake of macros, mn and fe primarily, they will make sure your plant is photosynthesizing till the very end. 

These Micro nutrients are very rarely available in your traditional living soil. 

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by ORGANinc.

[PsyCLown]

That is most certainly always the case. And you really don’t want to under do it. Because that’s possible as well. 
Theres new studies done regarding the bud formation phase and fruit fill stage. That’s making headway’s in Agri at the moment. These are 2 difference phases in the reproductive stage that make all the different in yeild, from a commercial stand point. The way nutritional needs and hormone influences switch all during the flowering stage. Imperative information I would imagine. 
I think the plants will tell you, I havnt looked at a nutrient dosages on bottles, but I hear it works best to start at half dose and work your up up to full? They put just the right amount of micro nutrient chelates. These vital nutrients are responsible for the higher that usual uptake of macros, mn and fe primarily, they will make sure your plant is photosynthesizing till the very end. 
These Micro nutrients are very rarely available in your traditional living soil. 
 

Do you have links to those studies? Would love to have a read and try understand the best way to go about it.

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[ORGANinc.]

1 hour ago, PsyCLown said:

Do you have links to those studies? Would love to have a read and try understand the best way to go about it.

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It’s some of John Kempf’s regenerative  agricultural works. 

They have a academy called advancing eco agriculture... that quite informative. They’ve done remarkable things on farms across America. 

Its not all die hard organic, they understand the farm, soil analysis and if necessary supplement a foliar to bring nutritional balance up to scratch while remediating the soil which can take some time, but not terribly. the most interesting of all is that he suggest that plants generally only photosynthesize at 15-20% of their potential, this is field test, no way applies to our indoor plants. But surely we still only scratching the surface. 

He pulls at strings that suggest plants that are able to photosynthesize 60% or more produce such an amount of secondary metabolites that the plants acquires complete immunity - this is another discussion amongst doctors and professors high up in the food chain, proving pest/disease resistant can be 100% overcome by holistic nutritional management. Most interesting. Brix overload!