Is this Ethical?

[The_StonedTrooper]

Hi Family, 

I know there was a post on a thread about President Seeds, and that they use a bulk seed bank and relabeled them as their own.

Now today, I see that GSR is using other breeders pictures too, and seen a post by @Ill_Evan saying he doesn't use them anymore, and my thread about them wasnt answered, and see why now.

Here are the pictures in question 

Is this Ethical and right?

[Ill_Evan]

I'll tell you what bru I even caught GSR using one of my pictures for the GDP I grew of there's. They got a better one eventually so they only used mine for a few months but I was perplexed.

I had one good grow from a GSR strain but I found the genetics to be inconsistent, but they are at least the strains you pay for.

Whether it's ethical to use someone else's pictures without their permission, well obviously not, but they are not scamming people with fake orders or fake seeds. 

Does flipping a picture and adding a filter with some branding make it fair use? Some would say yes. 

Oh joy ethical dilemmas!

[Fridge]

I would say, no it's not ethical. How does one call that? False advertisement? I once had an eye on these beans (the juggling ones). Glad I didn't get them and thanks for bringing that to my/our attention @StickyD420. 

[PsyCLown]

It is not really ethical, but it happens and we know it happens.

In this case it is the same picture for two different strains... Who really knows what you are actually buying though.

 

This is my personal opinion, the best advice I can give you, stop buying cheap european seeds. All these common dutch brands, try avoid them - fork out a little more if you have to and go with some US genetics instead OR some quality local stuff if you are on a tight budget... I know not everyone is going to agree with me on this, you don't have to. End of the day, you're the one smoking your weed and who has to live with your harvest. I will be smoking my home grown stuff with a big smile.

Barneys farms, nirvana seeds, dutch passion, seedsman and the many more out there. If you are really on a tight budget, purchase some quality local genetics like what @Totemic is putting out. I assure you, you will be far happier with what you grow from Totemic than what you may get from the breeders I have mentioned above and last time I took a look Totemic's range is far cheaper too and you're supporting local. Win win win if you are on a tight budget, it's really a no brainer. I am not saying all dutch breeders are   but they seem to like to sell jut. You may get lucky and find a gem, however this is likely to be far and few.

If people stop buying them, companies will stop stocking them.

 

You are putting all this money and effort into growing, why skimp on genetics and settle for subpar genetics? The genetics make the biggest difference when it comes to a grow, probably followed by your lighting and then nutrients next.

[GGG]

Most of growers make clones if we see its a nice plant, my opinion is that if you are VERY tight on money and you want more for your money go@Totemic, his stuff is !!
If you make clones like many of us do I believe then R100-480 for a seed is not much, you get so much more back.

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[Ill_Evan]

24 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

This is my personal opinion, the best advice I can give you, stop buying cheap european seeds. All these common dutch brands, try avoid them - fork out a little more if you have to and go with some US genetics instead OR some quality local stuff if you are on a tight budget

Ironically I believe GSR breed their seeds in California

But I understand your meaning. Genetics make a real difference and there is definitely a tier to seed breeders and the strains that they produce. USA genetics do have more power at the moment because they went wild on breeding high THC strains for a long time now. 

I do like Nirvana seeds though and recommend them to first time growers. Also Ripper Seeds. 

[PsyCLown]

Ironically I believe GSR breed their seeds in California
But I understand your meaning. Genetics make a real difference and there is definitely a tier to seed breeders and the strains that they produce. USA genetics do have more power at the moment because they went wild on breeding high THC strains for a long time now. 
I do like Nirvana seeds though and recommend them to first time growers. Also Ripper Seeds. 

Ripper have some decent stuff.
I guess it is more a blanket statement.

There likely are better and more cost effective options out there.

If funds are tight, form a group and split a pack of some expensive seeds if you want to try it out - makes it more affordable. Share the best pheno amongst the group.

I'm not saying all expensive seeds are good, I know for a fact this is not true.
I'm not saying all cheap seeds are crap, I know for a fact this is not true.

European genetics wouldn't be something I'll willingly spend a lot of money on at this point in time. Many are attracted to them for the wide range of strains and often are a bit more affordable, however if price is your issue then looking local may be a good option.
I don't think all local breeders are putting out top quality strains either though, so pick wisely.

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[The_StonedTrooper]

I had not heard of Ripper before, and seen OverGrow last night had a few HUMBOLDT and Dinafem seeds.

Will definitely try @Totemic and he knows and have mentioned I'm coming soon for something, his webpage wasnt selling when I looked, but see through the 420SA store.

Nirvana, the international site, shows at least a good half of the seeds to be USA strains, but dont show that on their local site MJSSA, but know they exactly the same. So not all are European stock.

My problem with using the picture of Humboldt, is that you'll be growing that Juggling Canon balls, and you'll keep thinking you doing something wrong, as yours never looks like the pictures. Then how can different strains or different cross species, look the same? And dont these people copying the pictures and photo shopping them, think to themselves, what if we get caught, we will look so stupid and wrong, and then how does that look? 

So @PsyCLownother than Totemic, as local. Who, breeders wise, internationally, would you trust or purchase from only, with local supply or stockists? Out of curiosity. 

[Bay Seeds]

Seedbanks are like name brands. If you are only growing for smoking it's better to buy from a bulk seed supplier. If you plan to keep clones you want the name brand strains. If you plan to breed you step into the expensive as hell regulars.  

[West Coast Vaper]

I for one am looking at local genetics.@Totemic I'm enjoying growing. Another local I'm having good results with is @Bay Seeds .
My mother plant library consisting of 17 plants at the moment, have got an infestation on a couple of plants. Not on the totemic or bay seeds though which says a lot to me.

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[Ill_Evan]

@Biltong and Budzhas also recommended Archive Seed Bank as a good local breeder.

[John Stonedwell]

1 hour ago, Bay Seeds said:

Seedbanks are like name brands. If you are only growing for smoking it's better to buy from a bulk seed supplier. If you plan to keep clones you want the name brand strains. If you plan to breed you step into the expensive as hell regulars.  

Fair enough if you buy bulk seeds it will cost cheaper per seed. But do you really want to waste 4 months of electricity and nutes growing subpar stuff that won't smoke as nice as some decent genetics from a trusted breeder?

So honestly speaking bulk seeds might be proper for beginner growers.. but if you know the quality of bud that you want you will struggle to get that consistently from bulk seeds. So on that note I have been burned by President seeds and bulk seed bank and will never again purchase any seeds where I know it was bulk or repackaged bulk. Rather cough up some extra cash and enjoy the fruits of your harvest so much more..

And I don't think it's ethical or treating your clients fairly by flipping and filtering bud pics that do not even relate to the strain in question.. but there's money to be made in cannabis so there will always be some poephol that tries to take advantage of that...

[The_StonedTrooper]

So @Ill_Evan, with regards to GSR again, as you mentioned inconsistency, and if they are using pictures that aren't of that strain advertised, then how would I tell my seed I won last year, are actually what the say? How do we know, if they have those names only...

Before I say this, you all know I dont like to talk bad about people or a business, but last night a few guys had very similar things to say about B&B, and as I havent ever used them before, cant comment or say what I heard is true or not, and glad to see most here have had good experiences thus far.

[The_StonedTrooper]

4 hours ago, Fridge said:

I would say, no it's not ethical. How does one call that? False advertisement? I once had an eye on these beans (the juggling ones). Glad I didn't get them and thanks for bringing that to my/our attention @StickyD420. 

Brother, I've taken several clones of it, and if you can somehow collect, or something, you may have a clone of her, what ever the F#@k this actually is

@John Stonedwellyou took them words out my mouth brother ✌

Edited March 18, 2021 by StickyD420

[Ill_Evan]

5 minutes ago, StickyD420 said:

So @Ill_Evan, with regards to GSR again, as you mentioned inconsistency, and if they are using pictures that aren't of that strain advertised, then how would I tell my seed I won last year, are actually what the say? How do we know, if they have those names only...

I've only grown two strains from GSR and they were Grand Daddy Purple and Pink Mango Gelato. All the GDP seeds were definitely GDP, and the same for the PMG. What I mean by the inconsistency is that between ten seeds of the GDP, maybe two plants were worth the time. I don't mean to say that I didn't get the strains I paid for.

But to answer your question, you don't know, because they don't use tamper proof packaging. They use those plastic vials in a small plywood box with some wood shavings.

BnB have always given me original breeder packaging so I've never felt like I've needed to suspect anything. I think what your mates might be referring to are dud seeds? But that's just the nature of the game in my opinion. 

[The_StonedTrooper]

Yes, I understand what you mean then, and was just thinking that if I have Juggling Canon Balls, and the picture of it, shows me the Humboldt strain of Mango Sapphire, how would I know, but we dont or couldn't, could we?

With B&B, I fully agree with you too, original packaging, and that was confirmed with the group chat, what there was a discrepancy with, was, that some had not been so fresh, old stock possibly? And the biggest comment was about buy bulk and packaging as their own, and again, this is hear say as I havent dealt with them.

Edited March 18, 2021 by StickyD420

[Ill_Evan]

1 hour ago, StickyD420 said:

And the biggest comment was about buy bulk and packaging as their own, and again, this is hear say as I havent dealt with them.

We must also account for BnB and any other seed bank that provides us our beans here locally. Maybe they also get the shit end of the stick sometimes too from the breeders. Nothing stops a big pants USA breeder from shorting our boys with old beans. 

[The_StonedTrooper]

Just now, Ill_Evan said:

We must also account for BnB and any other seed bank that provides us our beans here locally. Maybe they also get the shit end of the stick sometimes too from the breeders. Nothing stops a big pants USA breeder from shorting our boys with old beans. 

That's precisely the truth too, and as mentioned, I havent dealt with them before and who knows what seed was bought and how, as you say, the breeder has supplied bad stock (one guys Dutch P AUTO went back into veg) or anything can happen, growers own fault, or something. 

One just needs to be careful and be sure you do your homework, and especially dont skimp on good seeds from the best breeders you can, and from the breeder or direct outlet, is a sure guarantee of this in my experience.

Hence MJSSA and soon Totemic, as I know them and trust them with my money.

[The_StonedTrooper]

5 hours ago, Ill_Evan said:

I'll tell you what bru I even caught GSR using one of my pictures for the GDP I grew of there's. They got a better one eventually so they only used mine for a few months but I was perplexed.

I was meaning to ask, did you enquire with them, like what kind sunshine?

I cant imagine they had a good reply...

[Ill_Evan]

1 minute ago, StickyD420 said:

I was meaning to ask, did you enquire with them, like what kind sunshine?

I cant imagine they had a good reply...

Nah, I don't need to stir on that front. They're not using it now and I didn't really give it much attention at the time either. I don't use conventional social media so my voice would've been pretty puny to begin with. 

[The_StonedTrooper]

Not to stir at all of course, only enquiring why they didnt ask you.

If I was approached and was asked if someone or breeder and or company, wanted my pictures, I'd be so humbled and honored.

Though it would only be fair of them to ask for your consent first, that's all. 

Funny enough, just this week one of my pictures had been shared on Instagram, and even though I had given the okay to post my pictures, they still felt bad that the media department had not asked for that specific picture, and I was totally cool with that.

[ORGANinc.]

Ya that's blatant, and they just look so irreversibly tainted by doing shit like that.

If you going to buy seeds for the purposes of resale, put some effort into it, grow some out, take some dope pics, understand what your customer is getting and if they would be happy with the resultant bud.

I have had a experience with both GSR as well as President seeds. 

Here's the thing though, and I'm not saying this can't be done, however I may have just had bad luck with it.

The president seed - gelato bin ladden auto I grew, being auto's, I assume they are sensitive to the touch. So I didn't do anything drastic at all, but noticed it started flowering around 3 weeks in, Still TEENY TINY... So in the bin it went. I only noticed later on that I had made a switch in lighting, Cool White tubes - 240w Quantum board 3500k to make for a more speedy veg, which was the intention. Soon after seeing all my plants a little too close to flowering, calyx busting, 2/3 pistols quite pronounced, I made the change back to the LED Tubes. 

Could the Qb's color temp caused early flowering in my Auto, most probably... But is that also where you draw the light with pissy strains that break down in tears if you look at them funny? Most certainly.  

GSR gelato grew so promising, but then the buds were full of air unfortunately. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by ORGANinc.

[PsyCLown]

19 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

Could the Qb's color temp caused early flowering in my Auto, most probably... But is that also where you draw the light with pissy strains that break down in tears if you look at them funny? Most certainly.  

GSR gelato grew so promising, but then the buds were full of air unfortunately. 

Unlikely, I also run QB's but mine are 3000k (so more red, less blue) and I do not have issues with auto's going into flower early.

It comes down to the strain and genetics as to when the auto will go into flower. Some do start to flower sooner than others, not ideal if you want a decent harvest as the plants tend to be quite small then.

[PsyCLown]

17 hours ago, StickyD420 said:

So @PsyCLownother than Totemic, as local. Who, breeders wise, internationally, would you trust or purchase from only, with local supply or stockists? Out of curiosity. 

 

This is hard to say as I feel everyone looks for different things when growing a plant or looking at strains. What I may want in a plant may be something you do not care about or even the opposite to what you're looking.

 

I have yet to find a breeder who just has fire strains. So there are some keeper strains, but at the same time they are not all keepers IMO. You may still need to sift through a few strains or do some research before buying strains to ensure you try get what you really want.

However some of the breeders where I have grown out some of their strains previously which I quite enjoyed would be:

• In House Genetics
• Worlds Strongest Strains
• Dark Horse Genetics
• Swamp boys Seeds
• Irish Dabs (Pat Keller)
• Ethos (a lot of what I grew was not as advertised and left me wanting more, however I have seen a few strains which appear nice)

 

EDIT: I must admit, I have grown a lot of, in my opinion at least, average strains and even some really shit ones. I am at the point where I am kinda over growing new strains with each grow I do and want to try find some keepers and stick to growing those alone and perhaps on the odd occasion add a new strain to the mix and see whether she is a keeper or not.

 

The uncertainty when growing the same strain from seed is already something to consider, it is even worse when trying new strains or new breeders. A lot of inconsistencies with your grows and what to expect. The SO has kakked me out a few times due to the type of stuff we have had to smoke. There was actually a batch of Ethos Mandarin Cookies which we just could not smoke. I gave it away to someone who had no bud at all.

 

If you want consistency with your grows, you need to make a plan to sift through various strains, find the plants you like and keep them and take cuttings from them.

Just because some breeders sell expensive seeds, does not mean you will always get something good. I have said this many times before. In House Genetics is the perfect example, well known for putting out some frosty strains and amongst some of the more expensive seeds our local seed banks stock, but not all their stuff is good.

Edited March 19, 2021 by PsyCLown

[SkunkPharm]

On 3/18/2021 at 5:25 PM, Ill_Evan said:

@Biltong and Budzhas also recommended Archive Seed Bank as a good local breeder.

Archive is american.