Plants looking lackluster and burnt

[Marzcanna]

58 minutes ago, Live Canna said:

Thanks man  Yeah always been keen to get the TDS pen also. But first on the wish list is a proper soil ph pen (blue lab)   I love having numbers and stats, PH, TDS, EC, PPM anything  Just a pity they are all so expensive (or at least the proper ones. 

I know things can really stack up at the end of the day. I was buying things on a month to month bases

[ORGANinc.]

15 hours ago, Live Canna said:

Hey All,

So I have 3 plants in my main tent at the moment and they all seem to be showing similar issues (although the one not as bad). I had this issue on the previous grow on one plant, but I am just not 100% sure what this is. Leaves seem to burn and yellow, and curl...its been multiple signs. On the previous run I was hit with Thrips and Fungus gnats, but this seems to me to be more of a nute problem?

I am growing indoor, organic (Freedom Farm soils, and recently on the repot some of my own organic soil I made from a base of coco and then added a bunch of items). Bio Bizz nutes with compost teas when I get around to it. I usually ph my watering to 5.8-6.2 as per FF and BioBizz, but with my soil mix have basically aimed for the same.

I did recently re pot the RQS Sherbet queen (big one and the small one) and the lucky packet seed I have got (other big more sativa like plant on the back left).

Leaves seem to vary in colour from top top bottom. I was also away for a few days, but I gave them a nice compost tea before I left.

The prdominent issue I had before and I feel am still seeing, is that some areas/blotches of a leaf would burn and die. Normally on the sides of the leaf.

Thanks for any help in advance.

Hey bud! I can almost certainly say your compost teas are the problem, I wouldn't do more than 1 Cup per 5 Gal, and I don't do compost teas anymore, also many times commercial compost hasn't fully been assimilated, leaving much free nitrogen around and that can have adverse affects on your plans, more like a fertilizer than a inoculant.

Just keep that in-mind if increasing your feed. Then another thing I read is that you have amendments in your soil that you have added? Also very important considering you are adding more in the system, details for those amendments are critical?  

 

[SkunkPharm]

Those plants looks like they are over watered. Your roots need some oxygen. It also looks like they were in a small pot for to long.  You need to dry the pots out and the plants need about a week to recover.

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

You got a EC pen? 

get some clean water, test the EC, make sure you got 0.0 or 0.1 EC. water plants slowly till first bit of runoff, test EC of runoff. this will clearly tell you if it's over fed or under fed.

next is ph, if ph is out (which can happen in organic situations) your plant will also show signs of deficiency. 

if EC too high, flush with low EC water and keep testing runoff till desired value.

got a ph pen? 

get clean water, test ph, make sure it's between 5.8 and 6.2 (for soil). water slowly till first runoff. test runoff. this will show you ph of soil.

if ph is out, get water to right ph and keep flushing and testing runoff till ph is at desired value. 

from there, start over with nutes. begin at 1ml/L and work your way up.

less is more especially cause organic growing makes use of slow release nutes so you can give too much real quik. don't let the "it's organic you can do what you want" catch phase get you. 

organic can be more full of shit than people make it out to be

[ORGANinc.]

30 minutes ago, SkunkPharm said:

Those plants looks like they are over watered. Your roots need some oxygen. It also looks like they were in a small pot for to long.  You need to dry the pots out and the plants need about a week to recover.

Does not look like there is much perlite/aeration come to think of it. Compaction could be making the issues worse.

Edited April 30, 2021 by ORGANinc.

[Live Canna]

13 hours ago, Marzcanna said:

I know things can really stack up at the end of the day. I was buying things on a month to month bases

100%  It does get a lot.

2 hours ago, ORGANinc. said:

Hey bud! I can almost certainly say your compost teas are the problem, I wouldn't do more than 1 Cup per 5 Gal, and I don't do compost teas anymore, also many times commercial compost hasn't fully been assimilated, leaving much free nitrogen around and that can have adverse affects on your plans, more like a fertilizer than a inoculant.

Just keep that in-mind if increasing your feed. Then another thing I read is that you have amendments in your soil that you have added? Also very important considering you are adding more in the system, details for those amendments are critical?  

 

Thanks, I will keep that in mind, but I only fed them one compost tea before I left, and they were already in this state, so I don't think that is the case here. In the past grows I have had, I did a lot of compost teas in the same method and never had an issue. I am becoming more aware of the compost I buy though, as I have found a lot of pests in recent ones "I believe at least". I will attach a screenshot of the contents of my soil, the highlighted column to the right of the black line is what I used at the end of the day.

1 hour ago, SkunkPharm said:

Those plants looks like they are over watered. Your roots need some oxygen. It also looks like they were in a small pot for to long.  You need to dry the pots out and the plants need about a week to recover.

Yup, overwatered and under nuted.

1 hour ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

You got a EC pen? 

get some clean water, test the EC, make sure you got 0.0 or 0.1 EC. water plants slowly till first bit of runoff, test EC of runoff. this will clearly tell you if it's over fed or under fed.

next is ph, if ph is out (which can happen in organic situations) your plant will also show signs of deficiency. 

if EC too high, flush with low EC water and keep testing runoff till desired value.

got a ph pen? 

get clean water, test ph, make sure it's between 5.8 and 6.2 (for soil). water slowly till first runoff. test runoff. this will show you ph of soil.

if ph is out, get water to right ph and keep flushing and testing runoff till ph is at desired value. 

from there, start over with nutes. begin at 1ml/L and work your way up.

less is more especially cause organic growing makes use of slow release nutes so you can give too much real quik. don't let the "it's organic you can do what you want" catch phase get you. 

organic can be more full of shit than people make it out to be

Thanks bud, sadly no EC pen, but some solid advice here. Maybe EC pen should be my next purchase over soil PH. Because as you say, I can test run off. Just always more of a mission. Haha I must agree, I also feel that some days organic can be more work.

50 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

Does not look like there is much perlite/aeration come to think of it. Compaction could be making the issues worse.

There is quite a bit. I think I started these guys way back in FF soil, and then I transplanted to my soil. I will attach a screenshot of the contents of my soil, the highlighted column to the right of the black line is what I used at the end of the day.

 

Thanks for all the help peeps. I will report back as they 'hopefully' recover and let you all know what I did and what happened  

[SkunkPharm]

I would not be to worried about nutrients at this stage. Just let it recover without adding anything else. Less is more with organics. 

[ORGANinc.]

12 minutes ago, Live Canna said:

100%  It does get a lot.

Thanks, I will keep that in mind, but I only fed them one compost tea before I left, and they were already in this state, so I don't think that is the case here. In the past grows I have had, I did a lot of compost teas in the same method and never had an issue. I am becoming more aware of the compost I buy though, as I have found a lot of pests in recent ones "I believe at least". I will attach a screenshot of the contents of my soil, the highlighted column to the right of the black line is what I used at the end of the day.

Yup, overwatered and under nuted.

Thanks bud, sadly no EC pen, but some solid advice here. Maybe EC pen should be my next purchase over soil PH. Because as you say, I can test run off. Just always more of a mission. Haha I must agree, I also feel that some days organic can be more work.

There is quite a bit. I think I started these guys way back in FF soil, and then I transplanted to my soil. I will attach a screenshot of the contents of my soil, the highlighted column to the right of the black line is what I used at the end of the day.

 

Thanks for all the help peeps. I will report back as they 'hopefully' recover and let you all know what I did and what happened  

Having something like this is definitely the best way to approach it bud, nice planning. It doesn't look like a heavily amended mix, but it does look to have quite a few moving parts when talking about fertility. I'm definitely not an expert, but having many sources of dense nutrient transfer is very tricky and almost never works.

[Live Canna]

3 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

Having something like this is definitely the best way to approach it bud, nice planning. It doesn't look like a heavily amended mix, but it does look to have quite a few moving parts when talking about fertility. I'm definitely not an expert, but having many sources of dense nutrient transfer is very tricky and almost never works.

Thanks bud. Yeah, I like to have numbers and planning behind things as much as I can for stuff like this. Not sure why I didn't fill in the perlite field, but I obviously added there too  Its the first soil I mixed myself, so will see what happens.

[PsyCLown]

@Marzcanna Interesting, won't go into it too much as it is a bit off topic but it seems it might be more aimed at heat and plant transpiration when moving away from the HID's which generate more heat as well as the older LED tech, possibly the blurple lights and not so much the newer and now common quantum boards / LED strips which run full spectrum LEDs such as the Samsung LM301b/h etc.

 

@The_StonedTrooper Coco has cation sites, part of the reason why one needs to buffer their coco before use to avoid the coco from leaching calcium and magnesium from the nutes / feed you are giving your plants.

The calcium and magnesium replace the potassium and sodium which is naturally found in coco, they basically have a stronger bond than the potassium and sodium.

[Marzcanna]

38 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

@Marzcanna Interesting, won't go into it too much as it is a bit off topic but it seems it might be more aimed at heat and plant transpiration when moving away from the HID's which generate more heat as well as the older LED tech, possibly the blurple lights and not so much the newer and now common quantum boards / LED strips which run full spectrum LEDs such as the Samsung LM301b/h etc.

 

@The_StonedTrooper Coco has cation sites, part of the reason why one needs to buffer their coco before use to avoid the coco from leaching calcium and magnesium from the nutes / feed you are giving your plants.

The calcium and magnesium replace the potassium and sodium which is naturally found in coco, they basically have a stronger bond than the potassium and sodium.

Yes you might be right I did come from HPS and during the early days of LEDs, I do agree that modern LEDs might not be as bad but to be fair, I haven't run into many Cal - mag issues but there has been strains that did show some Cal - mag issues even with my LM301Bs and Hs, but I will say not as nearly as much as early LEDs. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Marzcanna

[Twix Aphen]

On 4/30/2021 at 8:46 AM, Live Canna said:

100%  It does get a lot.

Thanks, I will keep that in mind, but I only fed them one compost tea before I left, and they were already in this state, so I don't think that is the case here. In the past grows I have had, I did a lot of compost teas in the same method and never had an issue. I am becoming more aware of the compost I buy though, as I have found a lot of pests in recent ones "I believe at least". I will attach a screenshot of the contents of my soil, the highlighted column to the right of the black line is what I used at the end of the day.

Yup, overwatered and under nuted.

Thanks bud, sadly no EC pen, but some solid advice here. Maybe EC pen should be my next purchase over soil PH. Because as you say, I can test run off. Just always more of a mission. Haha I must agree, I also feel that some days organic can be more work.

There is quite a bit. I think I started these guys way back in FF soil, and then I transplanted to my soil. I will attach a screenshot of the contents of my soil, the highlighted column to the right of the black line is what I used at the end of the day.

 

Thanks for all the help peeps. I will report back as they 'hopefully' recover and let you all know what I did and what happened  

Good morning, I use a lot of the same ingredients as you. I didn't add any frass, fulvic or alfalfa meal though.

I have a couple of questions. What sort of Coco did you use and did you rinse the salts out of it? how did you buffer it?

[Live Canna]

On 5/2/2021 at 10:34 AM, Twix Aphen said:

Good morning, I use a lot of the same ingredients as you. I didn't add any frass, fulvic or alfalfa meal though.

I have a couple of questions. What sort of Coco did you use and did you rinse the salts out of it? how did you buffer it?

I bought coco that was already 'ready to use' as far as I understood it. One of them orange bags I think of coco with perlite. I'll look for the slip. So no rinsing or anything. The fulvic, alfalfa and frass are apparently all very good add ons. Not expensive really, except for the fulvic, but you use so little.

[Live Canna]

One week later, three waterings with a bit more nutes than usual and they are looking a lot greener, bushier and happier. Growth has also returned.  Thanks peeps. That will teach me to ignore my plants for work

[Twix Aphen]

I only asked because I used the 50 litre bricks and the salts need rinsing out and then the Coco has to be dried before blending in the rest of the mix.

How are the plants looking this week?

[Live Canna]

Just now, Twix Aphen said:

I only asked because I used the 50 litre bricks and the salts need rinsing out and then the Coco has to be dried before blending in the rest of the mix.

How are the plants looking this week?

Yeah i read a lot about using the blocks and rinsing. Seems there are varying theories there too. I also figured buying the "pre-prepped" one is less effort and not that much more expensive? But I am not 100% sure.

Just posted and update above  They looking much better. Green and growing

[Twix Aphen]

@Live CannaThey are looking much better now. Was it Atami Coco that you used? I have used their blue bag and it was really good quality. I've had lots of problems with using the bricks though and it takes a lot of water to get it ready to use.

How much alfalfa do you mix in and where do you get the it from?

[Live Canna]

3 minutes ago, Twix Aphen said:

@Live CannaThey are looking much better now. Was it Atami Coco that you used? I have used their blue bag and it was really good quality. I've had lots of problems with using the bricks though and it takes a lot of water to get it ready to use.

How much alfalfa do you mix in and where do you get the it from?

Thanks. Yeah I think that was the one. Looks like it anyways. I have heard a lot of people complain about the bricks, hence I rather pay for the sorted stuff. The next one I was going to try was this: https://www.futurama.co.za/freedom-farms-coco-perlite-50-50-growing-medium-30l?gclid=Cj0KCQjwytOEBhD5ARIsANnRjVjcOWELxoW7JP-G3BE0z__NBJms4fGDPlpvlx6SUuP_Y68UcTF2aT8aAhq0EALw_wcB as it seemed a lot cheaper. But if you work this up to 50l (as this bag is only 30, and the atami is 50) then it comes out at like R266. So not that much cheaper.

I mixed in around 100g for the 80-90l of soil I made. See my post a bit further up. I have highlighted a vertical column with my final mix, alfalfa included). I got the one made by 'Organics Matters'. And I managed to get it at a store in greenside, JHB. Where are you based? I am sure a bunch of other stores will stock it.

[The_StonedTrooper]

From what I understand the pressed one, or one that needs to rehydrate, is at a bad pH and also contains parts or salts possibly, that you dont want.

Many people recommend the ready to use coco and not the blocks, and I can agree with that, especially cheap blocks.

I've had far better luck using ready use myself. 

[Twix Aphen]

@Live Canna thanks for the tip. I'm down in the Cape Town area and the only time I used Lucerne it came in a big bale for horses. We put it into the compost pile and it made it really heat up. It's good to know that you can also use it indoors too. 

@The_StonedTrooperthe bricks I buy are supposed to be Pre washed and buffered but the EC starts off at 2.2 and it's only after soaking and rinsing it out twice that I bring it down to 0.7 

Its a lot of effort it takes a long time to get it ready to use.

 

[Live Canna]

On 5/8/2021 at 9:17 AM, The_StonedTrooper said:

From what I understand the pressed one, or one that needs to rehydrate, is at a bad pH and also contains parts or salts possibly, that you dont want.

Many people recommend the ready to use coco and not the blocks, and I can agree with that, especially cheap blocks.

I've had far better luck using ready use myself. 

Yeah, just takes too much time to wash through everything. And the water wastage is a lot too and a cost.

On 5/8/2021 at 12:17 PM, Twix Aphen said:

@Live Canna thanks for the tip. I'm down in the Cape Town area and the only time I used Lucerne it came in a big bale for horses. We put it into the compost pile and it made it really heat up. It's good to know that you can also use it indoors too. 

@The_StonedTrooperthe bricks I buy are supposed to be Pre washed and buffered but the EC starts off at 2.2 and it's only after soaking and rinsing it out twice that I bring it down to 0.7 

Its a lot of effort it takes a long time to get it ready to use.

 

100%. Seems to be a worthwhile add from what I read.

Agreed, too much effort for me  And thats why I just buy the bags.

[PsyCLown]

So I have used an array of coco, including lots of the 5KG bricks.

 

You do get coco bricks which are just plain and you need to rinse and buffer yourself, you get bricks which are rinsed / washed already and you just need to buffer and then you do get bricks which are already rinsed and buffered but these are difficult to source locally and the ones I have found are often priced high and the quality of the coco is really shit.

So typically when buying 5KG bricks you need to buffer yourself, it can be a bit of a mission but more time consuming and labour intensive than anything else.

 

I have also used some premixed coco, but prices can get quite out of control very quickly when going this route.

Freedom Farms and Bio Leaf are the two more affordable options which I have found in terms of prepared coco. You still pay a premium compared to 5KG bricks but it is convenient!