Indoor 2021

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

3 hours ago, Twix Aphen said:

@PsyCLown Sorry, I meant 8 ppm of chlorine. My tap water is 0.2 EC and 7.2 pH

 

thanks for the reply!

what instrument you measure the chlorine ppm with? 

my tap water comes out at 0.0ec, will test ppm to be more sure. and 8.5 ph. 

when I put my feed in it brings down to 6.8/7. then I drop a small drop of ph down in 10L of feed. brings it to 6.0ish. 

[Bos]

Uhmmmm carefull there, who is handeling your municipal drinking water?? And how many of these institutions are there countywide, each more different than the last.....

Some municipal techy's will keep to the 3-10ppm rule, some not so much.

Our water has bleached the colour out of a facecloth...

Consistancy is key, if you have it fine no problem.

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

I seriously need to get a local drinking water analysis from the municipality

but then, how do you believe what the paper sais is true? 

I wana measure it all myself, will get there, but for now I need to be as safe as possible and "have faith" lol. 

we fall under the Drakenstein municipality here in the valley of wine

[PsyCLown]

this is really good to know!!!
 when I hear "tap water" it's like an alarm goes off. "dechlorinate! dechlorinate! dechlorniate!" what the hell was that all about? why are people always talking bout dechlorinating your tap water for your cannabis plants? would you say it's just misinformation? 

100%

Misinformation and bro science.

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[ORGANinc.]

13 hours ago, Twix Aphen said:

@Naughty.Psychonaut https://www.cropnutrition.com/nutrient-knowledge/chlorine 

I think my water has 8 ppm, I don't let it stand overnight or adjust the pH. 

 

 

Okay Ill start here, So bro science or nonsense is commonly what you would hear coming from easyweedgrowing sites, Ilovegrowingmarijuana, softsecrets. maybe I'm not giving them enough credit because its not all nonsense, however, it does all tie back to one common denominator. And this is salt fertilizers.

Above you will see a link to information about chlorine not being a problem and actually is an essential element, all of this is not incorrect. But I see all the inputs @Twix Aphen uses and cant help but wonder, why are you appropriating a chemical salt mentality with a living system. ''Cropnutrition'' do not sell microbial products, they sell salt fertilizers, salt fertilizers go hand in hand with tap water.

Lets talk a little about what may seem to be common sense, the use of Chlorine/Flouride/Chloride in our tap water is put there for one purpose, and that is to make sure that our water is not contaminated or infested with bacteria, so in essence, these ingredients are making the water uninhabitable for microbes, but like all microbes they are quite resilient and end up coming back. I have attached the 2020 City of Capetown water analysis report, can't find the most recent one but this is good enough.

Storing potable water calls for water treatment of maintaining 1-2ppm of chlorine to effectively kill bacteria and or any pathogens that may find your water. This number falls quite comfortably between the values in my area listed in the attachment. These systems also call for ''letting the water sit for 12-24 hours'' if values are are too high for use between 5-10ppm. (this sounds familiar)

Then finally, i've spent the last couple of months reading along the lines of Gary zimmer, John kempf, Michael Astera, Phill Callahan, Arden Anderson, and couple of others that will outright say forget city water, if nothing else can be done, let the water sit for 12-24 hours and get it tested for carbonates. (again)

Allowing your water to sit for as long as possible does not rid the water completely of chlorine, but it does get the levels to a range that it is not effecting your microbes as much as it would if it were higher, making your system more productive. 

There's a real problem when everything can just be labelled bro science. 

WaterQualityAnalysisReport_July2019-June2020_English (1).pdf

[Marzcanna]

Best thing to use is reverse osmosis. You start with a base of 5-10ppm and you baiscly add what you need

Edited June 1, 2021 by Marzcanna

[CreX]

i must agree with @ORGANinc. on not putting everything under one blanket.

i myself using Salt nutes , do not dechlorinate my water before using it, in fact i find its better not to when i feed my plants.

but on the organic side, if i make a tea with water right out the tap... the tea will be a pile of complete garbage shit due to the high bacteria killing free radicals, Chlorine. and so if i let my water sit for a day, i found the tea stays useable for 2 weeks no sweat.... but barely 2 days if i use fresh tap water

 

[PsyCLown]

How much of a difference does it make? Has anyone done a side by side?

 

Pampering one plant with RO water and feeding the other plain old tap water?

Same soil, same amendments, same nutes, same cutting etc?

See what difference there is between the two plants during growth and we could even go a step further and do a blindfold smoke test and see if anyone will notice the difference. I do not think so.

 

@CreX Your tea still develops, the bacteria multiply and the air will help rid of any excess chlorine a lot quicker than letting it stand undisturbed.

 

 

I feel people get sucked into the nitty gritty which IMO does not make a big difference, little to no difference end of the day.

Salt nutes kill bacteria. Tap water kills bacteria. Too dry medium kills bacteria.  Do the bacteria die off completely? How much of a difference is noticed?

I know that @CreX was a big fan of teas with his hydro grow, made a big difference yet I believe that was tap water and he was using salt nutes.

 

Must we all get JoJo tanks to water our garden or only let the rain water it? Avoid using tap water for out garden? Do people who grow outdoors let their water sit before giving it to their plants or do they just reach for the hose, open the tap and be done with it?

 

 

I feel there is too much separation between the two. Tap water and salt nutes seen as the devil, they have no place when one wants to use some microbes, fungi, teas etc. I do not feel this is the case. I feel it is blown out of proportion at times. I do not feel one needs to be soo pedantic about this.

When we wipe down counter tops in a kitchen, we don't use tap water alone - we use cleaning detergents as well to kill the bacteria.

 

EDIT: To be clear, I am not saying it does not have an effect on the microbes and whatever else may be in your medium but it certainly does not wipe them out.

Edited June 1, 2021 by PsyCLown

[CreX]

2 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

How much of a difference does it make? Has anyone done a side by side?

 

Pampering one plant with RO water and feeding the other plain old tap water?

Same soil, same amendments, same nutes, same cutting etc?

See what difference there is between the two plants during growth and we could even go a step further and do a blindfold smoke test and see if anyone will notice the difference. I do not think so.

 

@CreX Your tea still develops, the bacteria multiply and the air will help rid of any excess chlorine a lot quicker than letting it stand undisturbed.

 

 

I feel people get sucked into the nitty gritty which IMO does not make a big difference, little to no difference end of the day.

Salt nutes kill bacteria. Tap water kills bacteria. Too dry medium kills bacteria.  Do the bacteria die off completely? How much of a difference is noticed?

I know that @CreX was a big fan of teas with his hydro grow, made a big difference yet I believe that was tap water and he was using salt nutes.

 

Must we all get JoJo tanks to water our garden or only let the rain water it? Avoid using tap water for out garden? Do people who grow outdoors let their water sit before giving it to their plants or do they just reach for the hose, open the tap and be done with it?

 

 

I feel there is too much separation between the two. Tap water and salt nutes seen as the devil, they have no place when one wants to use some microbes, fungi, teas etc. I do not feel this is the case. I feel it is blown out of proportion at times. I do not feel one needs to be soo pedantic about this.

When we wipe down counter tops in a kitchen, we don't use tap water alone - we use cleaning detergents as well to kill the bacteria.

 

EDIT: To be clear, I am not saying it does not have an effect on the microbes and whatever else may be in your medium but it certainly does not wipe them out.

sure... i did kinda compare apples to oranges

salts or organic grows i feel tap water is fine to use for feeds.

but the difference it made for my teas was chalk and cheese comparison... my tea went anaerobic within 48 hours if i used straight tap water, and did not go anaerobic after 2 weeks in the fridge using water that has stood for 24 hours.

but using that analysis and conclusion, it would reason to note that straight tap water may not be as ideal as water that has stood for a bit  if you have a developing or established micro life. the difference may be negligible in a feeding scenario ... but according to my experiments, there is a difference... it may kill some microbes.... suppress their breeding efforts... make them weaker for a few days. so if you know this information... whats the harm in 24 hours standing water

[Marzcanna]

Honestly, it's comes down to preference or more situational. I used tap water in my current organic grow and I'm about 2 weeks away from harvest with no issues. In fact it's been the easiest grow until now. However it is important to know what you have in your tap water, my ppm is at 500 from the tap, oxygenate it and it might come down to about 450ish. Now do you want to use that with your synthetics where you will no doubt exceed your ppm target or go with RO where you can add all you need? It's situational 

[Bos]

The effects will vary depending on the area and the quality of the growers municipal supply. This is a countrywide forum with how many municipalities??? Every grower must use their own discretion so I'd like to suggest caution with blanket advocation.

RSA water purification makes use of chlorine and chloromine. The antibacterial effects of chlorine are strong but of short duration, hence the use of chloromine as a secondary longer term anibacterial, which can stay active in water for 8 to 10days. Our municipality has mucked up our water too many times-that we know of. As a grower I don't know what the levels are by the time the water comes out the tap. It may have a negative effect or not, the point is, I dont know so I use my own discretion.

Personally we try to grow as natural as possible, as organic as possible, so we use rainwater.

 

 

[Prom]

To much chlorine is not good... using chlorinated water from the tap, is not of benefit for your micro organisms in the pot. Doesnt mean you cant grow in tap water... but chlorine toxicity is possible on cannabis plants. Chorine is a micronutrient, needs veeeery little to keep a plan happy.

If you are bound to tap water... use a waterfilter with a charcoal filter, good for you too,  shouldnt disturb your micro life in the pot. Overwatering with untreated tap water can disturb your pot very much and add time till the plant swings back.

[Bay Seeds]

Get a large 45 L plastic tub and keep the water outside in a sunny spot. Sunlight destroyes chloramine as well as chlorine.  Just wait 24h after filling reservoir. R80 at game. 

[ORGANinc.]

Ya I just don’t want to hinder the process in anyway. 

But many cases I suspect it really doesn’t matter. There is much lower hanging fruit.

[greenkush]

19 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

this is really good to know!!!

 when I hear "tap water" it's like an alarm goes off. "dechlorinate! dechlorinate! dechlorniate!" what the hell was that all about? why are people always talking bout dechlorinating your tap water for your cannabis plants? would you say it's just misinformation? 

Because it stems from American growers, their water tend to have much higher concentrations in some areas. Chlorine is not an issue, if you can smell it in the water then the levels are elevated and only then would I either run it through activated carbon or let it stand. But even if you let it stand you still have to worry about chloramines, chlorine is not really the only thing you want to remove. That being said, I only grow with tap water, using RO water is purely negligent waste of a precious resource. Do you really want to start stabbing people in their backs with devices to suck their fluids out their bodies to drink? (TankGirl reference).

[Nope]

Interesting topic, I had a discussion with a farm manager at a HUGE farming business in Mooketsi area last week. I was puzzled when he said that they are doing chlorine foliar applications on some of the fruit baring tree crops.  

I will try make time to look it up in the study material. 

[Twix Aphen]

On 5/31/2021 at 6:21 PM, PsyCLown said:

I wonder if one would still get the benefits if you were to mix it into the medium

I use it in my mix too. I put it in before the soil cooks down. I use 2 tablespoons per 100 litre batch. One of the enzymes will help to make the lime release its calcium into an available form. There are many benefits to using malted barley. 

23 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

would you say it's just misinformation? 

I think it is. My Rockwool and Coco were soaked in tap waterThe clones are fed with tap water. 2 days after potting on 

[Twix Aphen]

23 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

what instrument you measure the chlorine ppm with? 

I got it from here. https://www.capetown.gov.za/Family and home/residential-utility-services/residential-water-and-sanitation-services/water-quality 

13 hours ago, ORGANinc. said:

why are you appropriating a chemical salt mentality with a living system.

I just used the website because it had a nice diagram and explanation. Chlorine is an essential micro nutrient, whether you are growing with or without chemical ferts.

13 hours ago, ORGANinc. said:

Chlorine/Flouride/Chloride in our tap water is put there for one purpose, and that is to make sure that our water is not contaminated or infested with bacteria,

Water is treated with UV and chlorinated to kill e coli, but the municipal supply still has other life in it. The e coli may die but the biofilm remains alive. Chlorine isn't a disinfectant that kills everything. 

13 hours ago, ORGANinc. said:

Allowing your water to sit for as long as possible does not rid the water completely of chlorine,

The most effective de-chlorinator is ascorbic acid. You wouldn't have to let the water sit at all. It works in an instant 

[Twix Aphen]

6 hours ago, Prom said:

Doesnt mean you cant grow in tap water... but chlorine toxicity is possible on cannabis plants

I am more concerned with the sodium chloride from the Coco bricks than the tap water. Some ferts contain chloride and I would avoid them for the same reason. Does anyone know what levels of chloride are toxic to cannabis?

If I don't rinse out the Coco (2.2 EC) then the plants can look terrible and take weeks of nurturing before they start to improve.

7 hours ago, Bos said:

Personally we try to grow as natural as possible, as organic as possible, so we use rainwater.

I did consider it, I'm in the city and the rain might be clean, but my roof isn't. 

3 hours ago, Adansonia digitata said:

. I was puzzled when he said that they are doing chlorine foliar applications on some of the fruit baring tree crops.  

It would be good to find out the ppm of Chlorine and how often they spray it.

[Twix Aphen]

Some more stuff from an organic growers @ORGANinc.

https://www.growerssecret.com/blog/chloride-for-a-plants-healthier-moments

"More active, well fertilized plants have higher Cl-concentrations in their tissues. In general, tissue Cl- concentrations of <100 ppm, 100-500 ppm, and 500- 1000 ppm are considered deficient, intermediate, and toxic, respectively."

Malted barley and chlorine could be a good combination. "Chloride is required for optimal enzyme activity of amylase, asparagine synthetase, and ATPase."

12 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

How much of a difference does it make? Has anyone done a side by side?

I will do it. I can de chlorinate with vit c or humic acid. Which one would be better to use?

[Nope]

8 hours ago, Twix Aphen said:

It would be good to find out the ppm of Chlorine and how often they spray it.

I doubt that this info will come freely, but I'll ask around. That's a hectic farming company, I had to sign an NDA when I visited their nursery. 

[ORGANinc.]

22 minutes ago, Adansonia digitata said:

I doubt that this info will come freely, but I'll ask around. That's a hectic farming company, I had to sign an NDA when I visited their nursery. 

It wont be information that would benefit anybody in particular but the farm themselves, a qualified agronomist would have prescribed such a foliar dependent on most probably a sap analysis, i'm sure they would be quite certain that specific crop is deficient in Chlorine.

Which would not surprise me, people spray all kinds of shit on their plants given the first inkling that it will do something fantastic. Nobodies scenarios are even slightly similar. There is so much variation.

Anyway, if the conversation is about water plants with tap water because you need chlorine from a thumb suck. Ill pass, i'm sure your plants will be happy regardless. We just home growers at the end of the day.

[Twix Aphen]

On 6/2/2021 at 5:38 AM, ORGANinc. said:

Anyway, if the conversation is about water plants with tap water because you need chlorine from a thumb suck. Ill pass

The point was that tap water doesn't harm soil bacteria, because my pots are full of life.  I haven't got a clue what a chlorine deficiency looks like and its never crossed my mind.

[Twix Aphen]

This week's updates. Still vegging the two biggest, and the Buddha Cheese are still growing.I didn't water since the rains. Humidity has been up high, so the plants have been hungrier this week. I will give more 5 3 5 to the smallest ones, just a teaspoon for the 3 litre potsHigh humidity has been good for the root growth.

The pheno hunt is still on. Seedlings are still alive

Germination test on the new mixture.Happy growing everybody.

[Twix Aphen]

On 6/1/2021 at 9:32 AM, PsyCLown said:

How much of a difference does it make? Has anyone done a side by side?

I've started a side by side test with a few different sized plants.

First up are the freshly potted clones. Both trays are identical plants and potting mix, I fed the plants with a sprinkle of ferts on top. One tray is getting water straight from the tap and the other is on de-chlorinated water.

I used vitamin c  to take the chlorine out instantly. 1000 mg is enough for 200 litres of tap water. 

These are the other ones that I chose for this side by side test.