Fully Automated Indoor Grow 1st Time Grower!

[Beardedbruuh]

So just recently got this setup going by help of Detour Hydroponics. Super keen to see the progress. Be sure that i'll be asking a lot of questions to help us grow! Specs for the grow:

2 x220w Samsung Full Spectrum

420 Soil Mix

120x240x200 Tent

Terra Aquatica Tri Part Nutrients

Automated Drip System

Mantis 20l Fabric Pots

Let me know what you guys think!

 

 

Got 6 x Fat Banana, 2 x Supercheese F1, 2 x Skittlz / Manderin Cookies 

 

[CreX]

this is a good way to blow 15k man, Nice setup!! all you need now are green fingers and patience!

[PsyCLown]

Welcome!

Very awesome and cool setup you have there, amazing setup to start with!  Congrats!  

Although I do have some concerns which I will list below.

• A single arrow dripper per 20L pot I fear will not be sufficient, it will not saturate the entire medium. Also is this on a timer?
• The lights do not have proper heatsinks and with the power supply being mounted on there, it will get very hot and reduce the lifespan of the diodes. Remove the power supplies from the top of the lights and make sure to have a fan blowing down directly over the light to keep them cool and help prolong the life of the diodes.
• 440W / 480W of lighting for that that size tent isn't optimum when it comes to flowering, you will want to look at an additional 2x 240W lights for optimum output. This can be added at a later stage though, perhaps consider lights with some heatsinks when you do get additional lights.
• Air circulation, a single clip on rotational fan won't sufficient - especially once the plants get bigger. Maybe take a look at my grow diary (links in my signature) to see how I setup my 2.4 x 1.2 tent - I have 2x 30cm box fans which are mounted at the top of the tent and blow down over the lights as well as plants and the lurve helps rotate the airflow direction to really get the air circulating well inside the tent. You want to avoid moisture build up or stale air in certain sections of the tent.

 

With the above being said, nothing to worry about right away especially considering the plants are still quite small.

I'd say keep an eye out for an additional fan to add to the tent in the near future, shouldn't cost more than R400 give or take for a decent fan. It does not need to be a clip on fan.

As for the lighting, this is expensive - I know. If funds do not allow for additional lighting at the moment, then do not worry and continue with the grow and look at adding the additional lighting once budget allows. The additional lighting can lead to better yields as well if everything else is dialed in with your grow.

The additional Arrow drippers should not be difficult or expensive to add so you can have multiple drippers per 20L pots. I'd say you want a minimum of 2 drippers and ideally 4 per pot for a nice even coverage.

 

I have never used that soil, so cannot comment there although for your next grow perhaps consider trying coco instead of soil - with the setup you have it makes sense to move over to coco and you will likely benefit from faster growth as well and you can often get coco for less than the price of soil.

 

If you wanted to, you could also squeeze more pots inside the tent. 10 pots leaves a lot of space in the tent still. Not bad thing, but just know that you can fit more plants inside the tent without issue if you ever wanted to  

 

The GHE Tri Part nutrients are awesome! Very simple to use as well.

 

Please do keep us updated with your grow and progress and if you get stuck or have any questions let us know and we will happily assist!  

Welcome to the forum!

[SkunkPharm]

Just another issue you might sit with. Running salts through those drippers is not the best of ideas. They will become clogged. Some plants might not get fed. 

[ORGANinc.]

Nice set up, just a few tweaks here and there it seems. If you can try put the pots in trays and elevate them off the ground. Its cold... 

[Beardedbruuh]

3 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

 

• A single arrow dripper per 20L pot I fear will not be sufficient, it will not saturate the entire medium. Also is this on a timer?
• The lights do not have proper heatsinks and with the power supply being mounted on there, it will get very hot and reduce the lifespan of the diodes. Remove the power supplies from the top of the lights and make sure to have a fan blowing down directly over the light to keep them cool and help prolong the life of the diodes.
• 440W / 480W of lighting for that that size tent isn't optimum when it comes to flowering, you will want to look at an additional 2x 240W lights for optimum output. This can be added at a later stage though, perhaps consider lights with some heatsinks when you do get additional lights.
• Air circulation, a single clip on rotational fan won't sufficient - especially once the plants get bigger. Maybe take a look at my grow diary (links in my signature) to see how I setup my 2.4 x 1.2 tent - I have 2x 30cm box fans which are mounted at the top of the tent and blow down over the lights as well as plants and the lurve helps rotate the airflow direction to really get the air circulating well inside the tent. You want to avoid moisture build up or stale air in certain sections of the tent.

 

 

 

 

Hey Bud! Thanks for the great words and wisdom! 

let me answer those concerns which you brought up. 

1.) Thanks for telling me this, I will most definitely look at adding more nozzles per plant. The watering system is on a timer yes for 15mins at a time.

2.) I hear you about the heat, any suggestions where about I can get those heatsinks? is it a massive job to do and can someone inexperienced do it? Is it a major train smash that they don't have heatsinks on? 

3.) What if I add a 600w HPS light to this setup? Will it be sufficient with my 2 x220W Boards?

4.) I should have mentioned it all. I have 2 x Inline Fans and 3 x Clip Fans in the tent.  With 3 x spare fans just for in case!

Here's the soil that i'm using for this grow https://www.higrowsa.co.za/product-page/gebco-420-mix 

Could you guys give me a good TIP on how to raise the TEMP in my grow room? It's situated in a garage that's quite cold! 

I'll have to elevate those pots so they don't get too cold.

Thanks for all the words guys! Much appreciated! Very very excited to be growing!

[Prom]

1 hour ago, Beardedbruuh said:

Hey Bud! Thanks for the great words and wisdom! 

let me answer those concerns which you brought up. 

1.) Thanks for telling me this, I will most definitely look at adding more nozzles per plant. The watering system is on a timer yes for 15mins at a time.

2.) I hear you about the heat, any suggestions where about I can get those heatsinks? is it a massive job to do and can someone inexperienced do it? Is it a major train smash that they don't have heatsinks on? 

3.) What if I add a 600w HPS light to this setup? Will it be sufficient with my 2 x220W Boards?

4.) I should have mentioned it all. I have 2 x Inline Fans and 3 x Clip Fans in the tent.  With 3 x spare fans just for in case!

Here's the soil that i'm using for this grow https://www.higrowsa.co.za/product-page/gebco-420-mix 

Could you guys give me a good TIP on how to raise the TEMP in my grow room? It's situated in a garage that's quite cold! 

I'll have to elevate those pots so they don't get too cold.

Thanks for all the words guys! Much appreciated! Very very excited to be growing!

Just some comments ^^

1) I prefer halo drippers. With a T junction and bit of hose.. you make easy your own and you can make them to your size.. very big pots.. 2 halos or more.

2) Nope, no need.. just add a oscillating fan over them to cover both or point one on each directly.

3) For a 2.4x1.2 the wattage is ok with 1040 watts ^^ just check that your ventilation is up to the task.. the HPS will add some heat during flower.. the 440 Watts for Veg on a 2.4x1.2, are a bit low.. you might want to add a MH, if you want to stay HID. If you add 2 more LED lights (like the ones you have) you can skip the HPS.. have less heat issues.. HPS and Foxtailing is a serious issue most underestimate.

 

Raise the temp... check to get as little "fresh" air in during cold times and let the heat build up in the garage.. insulate your grow area. 

[PsyCLown]

2 hours ago, Beardedbruuh said:

Hey Bud! Thanks for the great words and wisdom! 

let me answer those concerns which you brought up. 

1.) Thanks for telling me this, I will most definitely look at adding more nozzles per plant. The watering system is on a timer yes for 15mins at a time.

2.) I hear you about the heat, any suggestions where about I can get those heatsinks? is it a massive job to do and can someone inexperienced do it? Is it a major train smash that they don't have heatsinks on? 

3.) What if I add a 600w HPS light to this setup? Will it be sufficient with my 2 x220W Boards?

4.) I should have mentioned it all. I have 2 x Inline Fans and 3 x Clip Fans in the tent.  With 3 x spare fans just for in case!

Here's the soil that i'm using for this grow https://www.higrowsa.co.za/product-page/gebco-420-mix 

Could you guys give me a good TIP on how to raise the TEMP in my grow room? It's situated in a garage that's quite cold! 

I'll have to elevate those pots so they don't get too cold.

Thanks for all the words guys! Much appreciated! Very very excited to be growing!

 

1. As @Prom has said you could look at those halo drippers or make some yourself perhaps. Otherwise adding more arrow drippers is fine too.
2. Once again, as @Prom has said - you can get away without the heatsinks but then best to have a fan blowing over them to keep them cool. This is the cheaper and more cost effective option. If you really want to get heatsinks, you can reach out to some of the local guys who retail quantum boards and see if they'd be willing to sell just the heatsinks - gotta also make sure holes for the quantum board matches up with their heatsinks.
3. This will certainly help, although won't provide the same PPFD as adding 2x 240W lights but if you already have it then rather do this as it will save on initial costs... there are some down sides to the HID light though.
4. Ok, so you have an air intake and then an exhaust fan and then 3x clip fans for air circulation and an additional 3 if needed - sounds good then!

 

As for temps, will be difficult to keep the temps up as most garages are not sealed very well. Perhaps consider adding a fan heater inside the tent and put your intake and exhaust fans on a timer to only turn on and run for a limited amount of time every hour or so.

This will likely be cheaper than trying to heat the entire garage.

[Prom]

You have 2 factors you need to handle with your ventilation.. heat and humidity. Shutting off the ventilation can raise your humidity to nasty ranges. Always keep an eye on both.

LED is for the home grower and has certain perks

- Less energy consumption, Eskom will increase the prices further.. not reduce them.

- More efficient, means less heat gets generated with the power consumed and more light emitted compared to HID systems.

- Less heat means less AC running, less power consumption, cheaper to run.

Those are arguments you can't ignore as a home grower. The lights also do the trick but we have to give HID a certain right to still get used.

- Nothing veges like MH light

- Nothing flowers like HPS

LEDs still try to reach HID in quality of light... but we get closer and closer each year. Mixing with LED isn't wrong.. but as @PsyCLown said.. has a shit PPFD compared to several smaller light sources. I would go HID only in a commercial setup in combination with a CO2 system, needs a separate cooling circle for the lights anyhow. Stick to LED as a home grower.. a lot less hassle.. first I add.. Foxtailing isn't a issue at all anymore 

[The_StonedTrooper]

1 minute ago, Prom said:

Foxtailing isn't a issue at all anymore 

Not completely true, but you should never bring the light that close anyway with an LED to foxtail. 

[Prom]

1 minute ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

Not completely true, but you should never bring the light that close anyway with an LED to foxtail. 

I haven't managed to foxtail a single plant with LED  just not enough heat radiation... and had them touching the lights. But then again.. I pay very much attention on cooling my lights to run hand warm. Can leave your hand on forever on my lights, just warm  I hate loosing electricity over heat resistance

[The_StonedTrooper]

Same here, but lots of guys run lights without the fans on them, or a decent or correctly ventilated room, and the temps go past 25deg all the time. I even had that issue before buying an aircon. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by The_StonedTrooper
Typo

[Marzcanna]

OH i remember running HPS (High-Pressure-Sodiums) they used to get the job done, BUT running at 600W the electrical bill was no fun. LEDS for a home grower is a must

[The_StonedTrooper]

2 minutes ago, Marzcanna said:

OH i remember running HPS (High-Pressure-Sodiums) they used to get the job done, BUT running at 600W the electrical bill was no fun. LEDS for a home grower is a must

I also used to think that LEDs are cheaper to run on electricity, but isn't 600W of HPS and 600W LED, going to use the same 600W at the wall? 

The only deciding factor being, that you use less electricity to cool the room down possibly or only?

Plus the replacement cost of the bulb every second grow.

[Prom]

7 minutes ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

I also used to think that LEDs are cheaper to run on electricity, but isn't 600W of HPS and 600W LED, going to use the same 600W at the wall? 

The only deciding factor being, that you use less electricity to cool the room down possibly or only?

Plus the replacement cost of the bulb every second grow.

Yes, 600 watts are 600 watts. But PPFD related the bar lamp will win, she converts more electricity to light.. quality of plant under the light, the HID will win, if all the factors are in the sweet spots.

There is no reason for a starting home grower to go HID.. if you are used to HID and have a running system.. also no reason to swap.. except you want to reduce your Eskom bill. Harvests you can't complain for sure with HID.

[Stinger96]

So now as a new indoor grower.. In winter you need heat right.. So the extra cost to get the room heated... would that not balance cost.. I have to get a heater firstly to heat up the tent and secondly to get my RH down.. This would probably differ from grow to grow.. But my issue now is heat and RH and I'm using a 600W HID.. I feel a bar heater will do the trick but again cost comes imto play.. I do not close my tent so this must be a mojor factor..

[PsyCLown]

20 minutes ago, Stinger96 said:

So now as a new indoor grower.. In winter you need heat right.. So the extra cost to get the room heated... would that not balance cost.. I have to get a heater firstly to heat up the tent and secondly to get my RH down.. This would probably differ from grow to grow.. But my issue now is heat and RH and I'm using a 600W HID.. I feel a bar heater will do the trick but again cost comes imto play.. I do not close my tent so this must be a mojor factor..

Well, it depends on how efficiently (lol) a heater converts electricity into heat.

 

With a HID light or a bar heater, a bit difficult to control the temperature. The bar heater one can at least hook it up to a temp sensor with a relay of sorts to turn off once it reaches a certain temp.

I quite like those cheap 2KW fan heater with a coil inside. They have a built in thermostat. When one of those are inside the tent, as the tent is such a small space it heats up in less than a minute and then turns off and only turns on when the temp drops.

 

I have never needed to compare the efficiency between an HID light, bar heater and fan heater. Although HID light would mean lower temps when the light turns off and no way for you to change that without a heater.

 

 

 

Also to put HID vs LED efficiency into perspective.

240W LED will give around 475umol of usable light

600W of these LED would give around 1188umol of usable light.

600W HPS (SE) would give around 777umol of usable light in comparison.

So 411 umol less which is almost an additional 240W LED light worth of output... It is a significant difference.

That is working on an LED light having a usable umol/w of 1.98 and some quantum boards may be higher.

 

So to get the same output as a 600W Single Ended HPS light, you'd need 392W of LED. So a saving of 208W.

[Marzcanna]

51 minutes ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

I also used to think that LEDs are cheaper to run on electricity, but isn't 600W of HPS and 600W LED, going to use the same 600W at the wall? 

The only deciding factor being, that you use less electricity to cool the room down possibly or only?

Plus the replacement cost of the bulb every second grow.

On the wall yes but output is much more with LEDS, so 600w HPS vs 600w LED might be the same on the wall but far apart on output

[The_StonedTrooper]

13 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

Well, it depends on how efficiently (lol) a heater converts electricity into heat.

 

With a HID light or a bar heater, a bit difficult to control the temperature. The bar heater one can at least hook it up to a temp sensor with a relay of sorts to turn off once it reaches a certain temp.

I quite like those cheap 2KW fan heater with a coil inside. They have a built in thermostat. When one of those are inside the tent, as the tent is such a small space it heats up in less than a minute and then turns off and only turns on when the temp drops.

 

I have never needed to compare the efficiency between an HID light, bar heater and fan heater. Although HID light would mean lower temps when the light turns off and no way for you to change that without a heater.

 

 

 

Also to put HID vs LED efficiency into perspective.

240W LED will give around 475umol of usable light

600W of these LED would give around 1188umol of usable light.

600W HPS (SE) would give around 777umol of usable light in comparison.

So 411 umol less which is almost an additional 240W LED light worth of output... It is a significant difference.

That is working on an LED light having a usable umol/w of 1.98 and some quantum boards may be higher.

 

So to get the same output as a 600W Single Ended HPS light, you'd need 392W of LED. So a saving of 208W.

So my 600W of LED in 2.4x1.2 tent, how would you say that works out?

Lots of guys who use HPS will say even with the same watts, they will have bigger buds and harvests.

I'm a firm believer in LED, just so that's out the way firstly. 

This is just a discussion 

[Ill_Evan]

37 minutes ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

Lots of guys who use HPS will say even with the same watts, they will have bigger buds and harvests.

This is due to the spectrum of HPS being perfect for flowering. The drawback will be that in a tent such as yours, you would get terrible light spread with a SE 600W HPS compared to the spread you get with 600W total worth of LEDs. 

Extra: Those guys who claim better anything using HPS are also most likely making use of DE 1000W HPS, and are also Gavita fan boys 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Ill_Evan
Extra info!

[The_StonedTrooper]

9 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

Extra: Those guys who claim better anything using HPS are also most likely making use of DE 1000W HPS, and are also Gavita fan boys 

Or have regrets and buyers remorse

Added, as if they trying to convince themselves of their purchase

Edited May 20, 2021 by The_StonedTrooper
Added

[PsyCLown]

2 hours ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

So my 600W of LED in 2.4x1.2 tent, how would you say that works out?

Lots of guys who use HPS will say even with the same watts, they will have bigger buds and harvests.

I'm a firm believer in LED, just so that's out the way firstly. 

This is just a discussion 

So in a 2.4 x 1.2 tent, the optimal PPFD is around 2000 umol.

 

The 600W HPS puts out around 770 umol, keep in mind as the bulb is used the output will decrease. So a used HPS bulb will be less than 770.

So a single 600W HPS in that tent is far from ideal. I'd only consider using half the tent (1.2 x 1.2) with a single 600W HPS.

 

Gavita HPS 1000W DE (Dual Ended) will output around 1500 umol, to put things into perspective. 1KW HID is far better, although being dual ended helps as well in terms of efficiency.

 

 

@Prom I am still skeptical about plants being better under HPS. I have heard very mixed feedback from people who have changed from HID to LED.

Many have said LED is better. Some were even coming from 1KW HID lights, so not the smaller lights either.

Ultimately though, I am very happy with my LED's and have no desire to change or try HID.

[The_StonedTrooper]

@PsyCLowntotally dodging the LED question

[The_StonedTrooper]

4 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

Many have said LED is better. Some were even coming from 1KW HID lights, so not the smaller lights either.

Ultimately though, I am very happy with my LED's and have no desire to change or try HID.

Many now have stop fighting the change, as well as the LEDs have come a long way and now overtaking the HID scene.

Also never desired to try nor test them in future either, super happy with my LED lights. 

[PsyCLown]

4 minutes ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

@PsyCLowntotally dodging the LED question

I misread, sorry.

 

LED, assuming you have Quantum Boards or lights with Samsung LM301B/H diodes, the 600W of LED would be around 1200 umol.

So a lot better than 600W HID, although still a bit short if you want to try end up with the optimal output for flowering plants in that size tent.

You want around 900W - 1000W of LED in that sized tent to get around 2000 umol which is optimal.

 

One thing to keep in mind is the spread / coverage of the lights. You could get a few big COB's but their spread wouldn't be as great as multiple smaller diodes like we see on strips and Quantum Boards. You want to try achieve a nice even PPFD throughout the tent as well.