Soil / Growing Medium Recommendations

[Dr. Green Thumb]

Yo 420SA Community,

1st time indoor grower, couple of years experience growing outdoors. This season I'm hoping to take on both.

I've only ever grown in soil and intend to do my first few indoor runs using soil as well. Not looking at growing in coco or hydro just yet, would rather like a smoother transition from what I know so far.

Question I have is, what soil / soil mix do indoor growers on here use? 

I have used the Freedom Farms Green Bag in previous years for outdoor. Can I use the same for indoor? Is it just Freedom Farms and then bottled nutrients through the grow? Do growers add any other things to their soil or is the Freedom Farms bags enough?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

[PsyCLown]

Welcome!

 

Freedom Farms green bag soil is very popular for indoor use, as well as a few other soils.

As for using nutes with the soil, I personally prefer to (when I was using soil) and many growers make use of nutes with their soil but some prefer to use just plain water, some make teas - it varies a bit and personal preference comes into play here.

 

You could add a few extra amendments, but I do not feel it is really necessary. Perhaps start simple and do not add any additional amendments and see how it goes. Later on once you're comfortable you can look at tweaking it a bit or look at moving to a different medium for indoor.

 

If I was in your situation, I would go with plain soil and feed nutes. Depending on which nutes you plan to use, you can go lower or if it has a soil chart (Like GHE / Terra Aquatica nutes) then follow that. When I was using soil I was giving nutes with every feed.

If you have any additives or foliars, you can continue to use those as per normal.

[Stinger96]

You will not make a mistake with freedom farms. I found mixing Diotomatious earth for Phungus Knats and some Super Frass for the basic nutrient need is all you'll need. They do well with nothing at all I have found but they need that bit extra when in flower. Keep it simple with the first run and first focus on getting your environment 100%. I found that soil is the least of your worries with a first indoor grow. Enjoy and good luck..

[SkunkPharm]

All the soils have their pros and cons.

freedom farms need to feed toward the end of Flower

orgasoilux is a bit stinky and also contains peat so you cannot dry out the soil completely.

Organics matter seems like a good all rounder. I don’t think much is needed.

what I am trying to say is you will need to experiment with the soils and see what works for you.

[Weskush]

Im not an indoor grower but from what i've seen, coco/perlite medium and a nute regime. Just make bloody sure to stay on top of watering/feeding to avoid the medium to dry out too much due to its relatively low water holding capacity. Synthetic or organic. Your choice. With outdoor you can experiment a bit more. Bugs will be had outdoors. Part of the fun.

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

@Dr. Green Thumb what's up bud

Just a reminder everytime you gona work with coco to make sure the coco is buffered. If you buying already expanded coco make sure the brand states it's buffered, if you gona buy coco bricks you gona have to buffer them yourself. 

another noteworthy thing when doing a coco/perlite grow is you're basically doing a hydroponic grow. the coco/perlite will just act as a medium the roots can hold onto, this will mean you gona be better off using nutes meant for hydroponic growing. 

you been growing outdoors so I am gona shoot in the dark here and assume it wasn't hydro setup and you didn't do much in regards of PH and EC? if you wana move over to coco/perlite hydro style grow you gona have to pay close attention to PH and EC.

with living soil and organic growing you don't concern yourself with that too much, although I do recommend getting a PH and EC pen on hand anyway for those check ups and to minimize guessing work.

Freedom Farms I think is the go to with most growers using that (there is a poll on the forum, also word of mouth), honestly I have tried every bag of cannabis "craft" soil, the most important thing here is actually consistency, freedom farms has that down to a T. 

every single time I try out new soil I think it's the kitties titties, till I run into shit then I find myself back on the ol' trusty, Freedom Farms green bag. 

if you growing in a living soil I would recommend going the organic nutrient way, there will be much conflict surrounding this topic and I shit you not it will never end. however choice is yours anyway.

GOLDEN RULE - with living soils and organic nutrients LESS IS MORE, and in any living soil you wait till the plant starts asking for nutes instead of just giving the whole time like with sythetic nutes. 

argument is always organic is so much more expensive, well honestly you use like 1/10th of the amount of shit you'll need for hydro. 

[ORGANinc.]

16 hours ago, Dr. Green Thumb said:

Yo 420SA Community,

1st time indoor grower, couple of years experience growing outdoors. This season I'm hoping to take on both.

I've only ever grown in soil and intend to do my first few indoor runs using soil as well. Not looking at growing in coco or hydro just yet, would rather like a smoother transition from what I know so far.

Question I have is, what soil / soil mix do indoor growers on here use? 

I have used the Freedom Farms Green Bag in previous years for outdoor. Can I use the same for indoor? Is it just Freedom Farms and then bottled nutrients through the grow? Do growers add any other things to their soil or is the Freedom Farms bags enough?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

Welcome,  

There are many different avenues you can take, but all will mean something later in your grow. If you use a certain soil it will or will not need extra nutrients as you progress. I suggest taking the simplest path without introducing massive complications. If its a complete soil that could do with a tiny amount of feed during the end, I would possibly use the FF green bag mixed with Orgasoillux at ratio 1:1. Could probably do biobizz at half strength. Depending on how much nutrients are going into those bags these days, should be good for a round or 2.  

Hard to mess that recipe up and will have good results.

[PsyCLown]

When I was growing with soil I preferred the Organics Matter over Freedom Farms.

I do not recall Orgasoillux, perhaps that was introduced after I moved away from soil.

 

Coco will hold more water than soil, it is also more important to ensure your soil never dries out completely as this will negatively affect the soil and microbes as it will lead to the soil compacting more and it is more difficult to rehydrate soil than it is coco. Soil will make for an easier transition to indoor growing though but deciding to go coco or hydro off the bat is not a bad idea either as you know how to grow and have some experience... Plus it is not all that difficult or different to be honest.

[ORGANinc.]

19 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

When I was growing with soil I preferred the Organics Matter over Freedom Farms.

I do not recall Orgasoillux, perhaps that was introduced after I moved away from soil.

 

Coco will hold more water than soil, it is also more important to ensure your soil never dries out completely as this will negatively affect the soil and microbes as it will lead to the soil compacting more and it is more difficult to rehydrate soil than it is coco. Soil will make for an easier transition to indoor growing though but deciding to go coco or hydro off the bat is not a bad idea either as you know how to grow and have some experience... Plus it is not all that difficult or different to be honest.

My experience is soil holds more water than Coco, Coco by itself or coco mixed with a few buffer ingredients here and there to help with root movement and ''some'' colonization will always hold far less water than a true Living system.

Science says that with living systems you can save between 5 and 7 times more water. That's why the more microbes in your system the more prone you are to overwatering. They increase the water holding capacity dramatically, if your soils structure is a miss they will first fix that too.

I think the being careful not to let your soil dry out is a huge fallacy and its causes newer growers to make the mistake of overwatering. Properly cared for plants with well mulched surfaces and environments on par will drink at most 7-10% of the container size ever 3 days or so. 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by ORGANinc.

[PsyCLown]

57 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

My experience is soil holds more water than Coco, Coco by itself or coco mixed with a few buffer ingredients here and there to help with root movement and ''some'' colonization will always hold far less water than a true Living system.

Science says that with living systems you can save between 5 and 7 times more water. That's why the more microbes in your system the more prone you are to overwatering. They increase the water holding capacity dramatically, if your soils structure is a miss they will first fix that too.

I think the being careful not to let your soil dry out is a huge fallacy and its causes newer growers to make the mistake of overwatering. Properly cared for plants with well mulched surfaces and environments on par will drink at most 7-10% of the container size ever 3 days or so. 

 

My experience has been the opposite that soil does not hold as much water as coco.

 

This has been soil out of the bag, like Freedom Farms or Organics Matter. Soil from my garden without a doubt holds far less water than the craft cannabis soils. The structure of the soil would certainly play a big role in the water holding capacity an it would vary between different soil mixes.

You can train your plants and/or make use of additives to help make the plants more robust and resistant to drought etc.

 

Microbes increasing the water holding capacity is news to me and my mind boggles to try understand this. The only way I see this working is with the microbes breaking down stuff in the soil - but then just adjust the way you compose the soil and you could have it hold more water from the get go.

I can understand that certain conditions or substances can lead to plants making use of less water, in which case you do not need to water as often.

Mulch and environment can play a big role in how often one needs to water as well. Hot days, low RH and the pots dry out quicker for sure.

 

I guess the next question would be how quickly does it happen? From opening a 30L bag of soil until the water holding capacity is increased significantly and even then, what would be classified as significant? I can understand one might not always want more water holding capacity as well though.

[ORGANinc.]

21 minutes ago, PsyCLown said:

My experience has been the opposite that soil does not hold as much water as coco.

 

This has been soil out of the bag, like Freedom Farms or Organics Matter. Soil from my garden without a doubt holds far less water than the craft cannabis soils. The structure of the soil would certainly play a big role in the water holding capacity an it would vary between different soil mixes.

You can train your plants and/or make use of additives to help make the plants more robust and resistant to drought etc.

 

Microbes increasing the water holding capacity is news to me and my mind boggles to try understand this. The only way I see this working is with the microbes breaking down stuff in the soil - but then just adjust the way you compose the soil and you could have it hold more water from the get go.

I can understand that certain conditions or substances can lead to plants making use of less water, in which case you do not need to water as often.

Mulch and environment can play a big role in how often one needs to water as well. Hot days, low RH and the pots dry out quicker for sure.

 

I guess the next question would be how quickly does it happen? From opening a 30L bag of soil until the water holding capacity is increased significantly and even then, what would be classified as significant? I can understand one might not always want more water holding capacity as well though.

All good points to bring up as they all effect everything, but I think the best way to picture it is to look 1 sided first, understand a type of scenario and the factors at play, lets take an inert system total of X water goes in, the ability for that water to stay in the medium and not be leached out or by evapotranspiration is your holding capacity, if that X stays in for a short or long time, it directly affects the holding capacity. 

Now lets take a living system, of the same volume, not fresh out the bag, this needs to be said. Reason being, the system has not begun the cogs have not been greased and the organism are very much dormant. Once a bag of any soil really that contains some or many amendments goes through wet and dry cycles, according to what's growing in the medium, (ideally the same plant) that microbiome will become more and more robust, the more it goes through wet and dry cycles. increase OM and subsequently water-holding capacity. Some would think more organism more water, but not the case, microbes unlock water in the soil for roots in a microscopic part of the clay colloids that the roots cant even get too.

 Om really increases your water holding capacity, that and covering your soil. lots of water goes up in the air. Generally water is never servicing 100% of its purpose in soil, there is always irregular expenditure, like our government. 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by ORGANinc.

[SkunkPharm]

My plants are in quite big pots. They drink about 8 liters of water a day atm. (3 plants) This is with the blumat system installed. 
freedom farms is basically coco peat so I cannot see that coco can hold more water than coco. As soon as you add sphagnum peat moss to the mix your moisture holding capacity increases. Organics Matter soil contains peat moss. So technically it should retain more water. They have also improved there mix over time.

If you are looking for something you can reuse I would go with it. Jamie’s garden shop makes the orgasoilux. His soil is blended by Growrite in Epping as far as I know. He had his soil tested and the soil test can be found on his Instagram page and website. 
The most important part for me is to inoculate your soil with microbes. Be it bacteria or mycorrhizal fungi. Another beneficial organic additives is malted barley teas, especially in the first grow using the soil. My soil is now on its 3rd grow and it is just getting better. 

[PsyCLown]

1 hour ago, ORGANinc. said:

All good points to bring up as they all effect everything, but I think the best way to picture it is to look 1 sided first, understand a type of scenario and the factors at play, lets take an inert system total of X water goes in, the ability for that water to stay in the medium and not be leached out or by evapotranspiration is your holding capacity, if that X stays in for a short or long time, it directly affects the holding capacity. 

Now lets take a living system, of the same volume, not fresh out the bag, this needs to be said. Reason being, the system has not begun the cogs have not been greased and the organism are very much dormant. Once a bag of any soil really that contains some or many amendments goes through wet and dry cycles, according to what's growing in the medium, (ideally the same plant) that microbiome will become more and more robust, the more it goes through wet and dry cycles. increase OM and subsequently water-holding capacity. Some would think more organism more water, but not the case, microbes unlock water in the soil for roots in a microscopic part of the clay colloids that the roots cant even get too.

 Om really increases your water holding capacity, that and covering your soil. lots of water goes up in the air. Generally water is never servicing 100% of its purpose in soil, there is always irregular expenditure, like our government. 

 

 

I think I see and understand it a bit better now. You are basically saying reuse the soil and as time goes on the organic matter content would increase and therefore the holding capacity increase as well? All the dead roots and perhaps some other matter too.

[Marzcanna]

I would do some research and get some soil recipes, play around with ratios until you have your own recipe that works for you, trust me you will get better results mixing your own soil especially when you have it dial in, and if growing in organics that same mix will get better and better after every grow (reusable) I keep mentioning over and over that i have nothing against these brands but "For Me" mixing my own soil gives better results for cheaper, and I can add the exact ratios i need. Its not to say these brands are not good because some are actually quite good and i have used them in the past, but mixing your own soil can give you the same if not better results for much cheaper, these brands are basically doing the same with a recipe that works and selling it. If you starting out than I would recommend you begin with your base soil/coco/compost/aeration a common ratio is 33% of each (later you can experiment with the ratios) once you got your base you could get yourself a bag of "elemental Blend" and add it to the mix and you done, amend  with elemental blend every 4 weeks and basically give your plants nothing but water. You can also skip the elemental blend brand by adding your own ratio of amendments once you have an understanding of what each amendment does and what the plant needs. At the end of the day doing this way will save you some cash and you might even end up with a superior product

Edited October 9, 2021 by Marzcanna

[ORGANinc.]

19 hours ago, PsyCLown said:

 

I think I see and understand it a bit better now. You are basically saying reuse the soil and as time goes on the organic matter content would increase and therefore the holding capacity increase as well? All the dead roots and perhaps some other matter too.

Ya bud the process happens quite fast, store bought soil would be somewhat dormant I would think, once you start inoculating the soil adding food into the system, grow cover crop of different varieties, you start innoculating the soil with indigenous micro-organis that inhabit the cover crop seed from germination. Creating more diversity. Introducing mulch, the benefit of mulch are honestly enormous. Covering the soil stops oxidation in the top layer of soil, that top layer is now moist and humid, allowing for even more habitation of microorganisms more decomposition, I want to really see if I can beef up my mulch game. 
 

you want organic moist and humid 

[Marzcanna]

5 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

Ya bud the process happens quite fast, store bought soil would be somewhat dormant I would think, once you start inoculating the soil adding food into the system, grow cover crop of different varieties, you start innoculating the soil with indigenous micro-organis that inhabit the cover crop seed from germination. Creating more diversity. Introducing mulch, the benefit of mulch are honestly enormous. Covering the soil stops oxidation in the top layer of soil, that top layer is now moist and humid, allowing for even more habitation of microorganisms more decomposition, I want to really see if I can beef up my mulch game. 
 

you want organic moist and humid 

Any quick suggestions on cover crop that works best?

[Bos]

7 hours ago, ORGANinc. said:

Ya bud the process happens quite fast, store bought soil would be somewhat dormant I would think, once you start inoculating the soil adding food into the system, grow cover crop of different varieties, you start innoculating the soil with indigenous micro-organis that inhabit the cover crop seed from germination. Creating more diversity. Introducing mulch, the benefit of mulch are honestly enormous. Covering the soil stops oxidation in the top layer of soil, that top layer is now moist and humid, allowing for even more habitation of microorganisms more decomposition, I want to really see if I can beef up my mulch game. 
 

you want organic moist and humid 

Agree with the mulch idea, remarkable difference in moisture retention and top soil layer temps. Also noticed more 'activity' in the top layer with mulch. Our outdoor growbeds have yet to be 'watered' and the potted plants (25-30lt) seem to last a day or two longer than usual. 

[ORGANinc.]

On 10/9/2021 at 10:49 AM, Marzcanna said:

Any quick suggestions on cover crop that works best?

I think they are all quite beneficial except the ones that attract pest,I noramlly use Dicondra, Lettuce, Cabbage, Baby Cabbage, oats and barley always sprout because they are in the soil and the mulch, the edible flower varieties I've just put in the veg bed, Swiss chard, Arugula, Did marigold, they didn't attract any pest, but apparently you suppose to watch out for that. Brassicas are all very good as well. 

[Weskush]

Last season i had some Marigolds next to my best plants. Red spider mites completely took over the Marigolds while they didnt touch my plants.Guess they are an excellent pest diverter

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

a marigold is a stink afrikaner? 

arent they meant to repell unwanted insects by the smell of the plant itself and attract predatory insects with their huge bulbous flower such as bees and lady bugs and other pollinators thus detering unwanted plant eaters even further?

first time I ever hear a marigold attracting unwanted insects. 

[ORGANinc.]

1 minute ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

a marigold is a stink afrikaner? 

arent they meant to repell unwanted insects by the smell of the plant itself and attract predatory insects with their huge bulbous flower such as bees and lady bugs and other pollinators thus detering unwanted plant eaters even further?

first time I ever hear a marigold attracting unwanted insects. 

Ya Im probably wrong on that one because as I said, they were growing and I did not notice any issue, could be confusing them with another cover crop or plant as well.

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

yeah my mom loves marigolds, she always got some in her garden. 

she got wacked over the head with marigolds when the whole "save the bees" thing was going on. she planted loads, still buys new 6packs every summer but marigolds was all that held up and there are bees and ladybugs swarming it as soon as the first flower opens. 

[Weskush]

17 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

a marigold is a stink afrikaner? 

arent they meant to repell unwanted insects by the smell of the plant itself and attract predatory insects with their huge bulbous flower such as bees and lady bugs and other pollinators thus detering unwanted plant eaters even further?

first time I ever hear a marigold attracting unwanted insects. 

Jip. First time that i've seen a Marigold sacrifice itself in this way.