Slartibarfast Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Hi! I have 2 auto plants that have a decent coverage amber + cloudy trichomes. I recently watered with nutrients on Saturday but now want to flush and harvest on Friday. Are there any suggestions to stop the trichomes maturing furher while I flush and wait for Friday? Since I do not want them maturing too much further. I was thinking of flushing with FloraKleen this evening. Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAgrower Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Hi! I have 2 auto plants that have a decent coverage amber + cloudy trichomes. I recently watered with nutrients on Saturday but now want to flush and harvest on Friday. Are there any suggestions to stop the trichomes maturing furher while I flush and wait for Friday? Since I do not want them maturing too much further. I was thinking of flushing with FloraKleen this evening. Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk I have been reading a lot lately of people abroad, and locally, that says flushing is bro science and it apparently doesn't make any difference. How true this really is Im not sure.I doubt theres a way to slow the process down but Im still a beginner when it comes to growing. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibarfast Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 I've read the same but so far I have only not flushed one grow and found that grow to be the harshest smoke. Perhaps I did something else wrong with it but feel like it might have been not flushing.Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 4 hours ago, SAgrower said: I have been reading a lot lately of people abroad, and locally, that says flushing is bro science and it apparently doesn't make any difference. How true this really is Im not sure. what's good friends I believe there are benefits to flushing and it's not bro science at all. I am giving the benefit of the doubt to the debate thinking the counter argument is that if some guy wanted to keep feeding nutrients a week before harvest that someone should tell him there is no point as it doesn't increase yield, terpene, thc or anything and he should save his time, money and resources. - then yeah I get it... but I have seen a lot of people tripping up over people who want to flush, like they should be feeding till harvest day. that argument I don't understand... here is a video discussing a study done on this subject, the video also has a link to the source in the description... 5 hours ago, Slartibarfast said: Hi! I have 2 auto plants that have a decent coverage amber + cloudy trichomes. I recently watered with nutrients on Saturday but now want to flush and harvest on Friday. Are there any suggestions to stop the trichomes maturing furher while I flush and wait for Friday? Since I do not want them maturing too much further. I was thinking of flushing with FloraKleen this evening. Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk I was gona suggest out the whole plant in the freezer hahah nah man I think there is no slowing down maturing trichomes man, especially with autos those things just move to finish up asap 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weskush Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 This topic will have many different opinions. I would love to see a smoke comparison between flushing/non-flushing a synthetic nute grow aswell as an organic nute grow. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 @Weskush this topic used to have many different opinions, but there are also a bunch of facts coming to light. did you watch the video? there is quantified scientific merit to their study with tests done by chemical analysis machines. opinions on the topic is becoming less and less relevant. what you asked - it's easy - you been doing this for a while, take a bud with loads of chlorophyll in it and smoke it and compare it to smoking a bud with less or almost no cholorophyll. which one do you think will be harsher? do you really need a study to tell you what that outcome will be....? it's quite simple actually. there was a smoke report in the video? did you watch the video? it comes down to the difference in yield quantity and quality if you keep feeding till harvest. and the answer was - no difference. I guess a more extensive study could be done on a few different strains, but to me that bit of information already gives me the answer - it's beneficial to flush. I can't understand it for other people and I won't try to debate it, because in my mind there is no debate. it basically comes down to time and money you'll be wasting if you keep feeding. nothing else much to it. ✌ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 no flush till harvest - more chlorophyll to break down during curing. flush before harvest - less chlorophyll to break down during curing. more chlorophyll in buds - harsher smoke less chlorophyll in buds - smoother smoke ease pease, bra 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORGANinc. Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 59 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said: no flush till harvest - more chlorophyll to break down during curing. flush before harvest - less chlorophyll to break down during curing. more chlorophyll in buds - harsher smoke less chlorophyll in buds - smoother smoke ease pease, bra This topic again lol. Cant agree more with this statement. I have not watched the video. However, all the plants reserves are supposed to used up somewhat by the time of harvest. This ensure the best cure. Then smooth smoke. Chlorophyll is the green pigment, we know chlorophyll is not just nitrogen, its many many other elements and compounds. So, in my mind flushing is quite necessary with nutes. This is just to get the plant to use up all reserves. (FLUSHING in my mind is just watering on a normal schedule) Some say its not necessary, which is fine, people are allowed to have their own opinion. BUT logically, if not flushing. You gotta really be super scientific in your dosing approach and understanding what the plant is using out of that nutrient to finish with a smooth smoke. Maybe they feeding such an insignificant amount towards the end that it really doesn't effect anything negatively. Also a possibility. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weskush Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) @Naughty.Psychonaut i haven't watched the video yet. Flush or no flush. Drying/Curing method is a way stronger determining factor in harshness of the smoke. Personally i feed only water until runoff about a week before harvest in a container grow. Living soil no container grows, no flush obviously. Edited January 25, 2022 by Weskush 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 11 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said: This topic again lol. Cant agree more with this statement. I have not watched the video. However, all the plants reserves are supposed to used up somewhat by the time of harvest. This ensure the best cure. Then smooth smoke. Chlorophyll is the green pigment, we know chlorophyll is not just nitrogen, its many many other elements and compounds. So, in my mind flushing is quite necessary with nutes. This is just to get the plant to use up all reserves. (FLUSHING in my mind is just watering on a normal schedule) Some say its not necessary, which is fine, people are allowed to have their own opinion. BUT logically, if not flushing. You gotta really be super scientific in your dosing approach and understanding what the plant is using out of that nutrient to finish with a smooth smoke. Maybe they feeding such an insignificant amount towards the end that it really doesn't effect anything negatively. Also a possibility. Boom! Hitting the nail on the head for centuries the smartest minds that dwelled the earth thought the earth was flat, still till today in 2022 we have people with their own opinions on the matter, because all measurable science is just "out to hurt their feelings" or something along those lines. 3 minutes ago, Weskush said: Flush or no flush. Drying/Curing method is a way stronger determining factor in harshness of the smoke. OK, I get what you're saying, but wasn't the discussion about the difference flushing and not flushing??? In this discussion I don't really care what causes more or less harshness over all. we where talking about flushing and not flushing and that happened to be one of the points made. if we wana discuss all that can be done around harvest time to reduce harshness, that's a whole different discussion my guy, of which flushing will also be a part of again. 7 minutes ago, Weskush said: Living soil no container grows, no flush obviously. with living soil you also don't need to feed nutes to the plant all the time, only when the plant is hungry, most of the time you're giving clean water. the plant itself, when it comes to the end of its cycle it will naturally take in less and less of certain compounds. if you're still giving nutes at that time, again you're wasting and you're force feeding the plant and it'll probably just go through to the next season. when the plant is finished creating buds for it's 8-16 week flower period, it won't put on more weight it wont get stronger it wont get less harsh (don't know how that's even a point in this argument) it wont do anything for you, except waste your time and money. again. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 if you not aiming to harvest when the plant is ripe - continuing a plant that finished its flowering cycle will make the buds go airy till they start dying back and the plant starts pushing foxtails wanting to reveg. aiming to harvest around harvest time when the buds are ready you should be allowing the plant to do what it naturally does - stop feeding it about a week before you harvest. what's the point in pushing the plant in any way shape or form if it doesn't increase anything in any way shape or form? you're literally just risking ending up with harsher smoke. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weskush Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said: OK, I get what you're saying, but wasn't the discussion about the difference flushing and not flushing??? In this discussion I don't really care what causes more or less harshness over all. we where talking about flushing and not flushing and that happened to be one of the points made. if we wana discuss all that can be done around harvest time to reduce harshness, that's a whole different discussion my guy, of which flushing will also be a part of again. The reason for flushing is believed to reduce harshness in the smoke by reducing/removing salt/nute buildup in the root zone before harvest as you know. That's what the aim of flushing is believed to be right? Many different opinions on this subject Edited January 25, 2022 by Weskush 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreX Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 in my opinion - flushing is a waste of time and energy. 100% bro science i have not flushed my totes in years, and further to that, i have not even tilled my totes in months and have only been growing better and better meds every run. If you have a healthy meduim with the correct amount of nutes, your plant will obviously be healthy too. you wont have burnt tips, no deficiencies or toxicities and buds that will continue growing until harvest day. If you want to reduce harshness in your buds you need to improve your drying and curing skills, as well as feed less toward the end of flower so the plant can naturally fade while it finishes up - flushing does not induce a fade, it will induce deficiencies that look like a fade. the only time you should flush your meduim is when you have trouble with a toxicity, where the flush will aid in removing excess nutes. if you have been feeding moderately then you will not run into toxicity issues. reuse your meduim, innoculate with microbes and fungi... the proof is in the pudding! 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ill_Evan Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, CreX said: the only time you should flush your meduim is when you have trouble with a toxicity, where the flush will aid in removing excess nutes. 13 minutes ago, CreX said: If you want to reduce harshness in your buds you need to improve your drying and curing skills, as well as feed less toward the end of flower so the plant can naturally fade while it finishes up I wonder if this entire time the method of flushing religiously before harvest was due to growers spiking their nutes mid flower instead of reducing off their nutes and they "flush" late flower because their pots are just bricks of salt, and only the flushing part made it into popular culture. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORGANinc. Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 hour ago, CreX said: in my opinion - flushing is a waste of time and energy. 100% bro science i have not flushed my totes in years, and further to that, i have not even tilled my totes in months and have only been growing better and better meds every run. If you have a healthy meduim with the correct amount of nutes, your plant will obviously be healthy too. you wont have burnt tips, no deficiencies or toxicities and buds that will continue growing until harvest day. If you want to reduce harshness in your buds you need to improve your drying and curing skills, as well as feed less toward the end of flower so the plant can naturally fade while it finishes up - flushing does not induce a fade, it will induce deficiencies that look like a fade. the only time you should flush your meduim is when you have trouble with a toxicity, where the flush will aid in removing excess nutes. if you have been feeding moderately then you will not run into toxicity issues. reuse your meduim, innoculate with microbes and fungi... the proof is in the pudding! I honestly believe that your plants are a super smooth smoke and you have your system highly dialed in brother. Where the information on this topic gets miss-lead is always back to all the variables that come with growing cannabis. @Ill_Evan said it quite well above. If you can put in all the right things at the right time. You are in essence running at ''optimal'' more consistently, as best case scenario allows tent growers, ending with a plant that is more adapt to using everything is has. Now if you wondering weather to flush or not, ask yourself one question. Did I, at any point in the grow think that more = More, then there's your answer. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weskush Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 32 minutes ago, CreX said: the proof is in the pudding! yes, exactly the proof is in the pudding!!! in the pursuit of truth, when you're calling someones work and actual science people have done in labs with machines and advanced technologies that cost lots of money and time a "100% bro science" just means you looking for an argument, which I believe you are not doing? here's some of that pudding you where talking about https://rxgt.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/FlushingTimes_TrialReport.pdf sooooo, on the point of what is more wasteful... 46 minutes ago, CreX said: so the plant can naturally fade while it finishes up with this statement it is safe to say you agree that plants naturally stop using nutes towards the end, right? so help me understand how it is a waste when you're saving on nutrients because you don't have to give them because the plant doesn't want more AND you don't have to mix them? then you also say, not having to mix nutrients is both a waste of nutrients and a waste of time, even though you're doing less. I would like to understand that a bit better aswell. I think the concept of "flushing" kicks it's heels in by "flushing toxicities out". In the video about the study the guy is clearly differentiating between flushing toxicities and flushing at the end of the plants life. the confusion here is, because flushing at the end of the plants life does not mean pouring 20L of clean water through the medium like you would when you wana reduce ppm. reason - when you flush toxicity you're aiming for a specific desired ppm, so what ppm you aiming for when flushing at the end of its life? I hope no one is saying 0000 ppm, or even 0005ppm for that matter or even 0010ppm or 0050ppm, because that would be silly. that would cause deficiencies for sure, even within the first 24hrs of sitting in too low ppm. this type of flushing would make even less sense in a organic situation, because organic growers re-use their soils, why the poop-on-my-face would anyone wana even try flush organic soil down to 0000ppm. besides the point, hydro and organic, the plant will stress. the aim is not 0000ppm on the first day of flush, the aim is to slowly reduce the overall ppm towards the day of harvest by not giving anymore nutes and sticking to just clean water. no nutes whatsoever, but also the amount of water is just enough to give a teetsy bit of runoff. to reduce ppm to get it to be as little as possible on harvest day. what is in the plant and medium is enough for the plant to ride it out till when she's ready to chop. lets think alternatively. toxicity flushing - pouring 20L of clean water through the medium every day and in the study say they did up to 14 days. imagine for 2 weeks doing that every day? that would probably do more damage than good and I hope no one has been doing this. a saturated 0000ppm medium is just asking for root rot and with fully developed buds and constantly soaked pots could probably end up with super high RH in the buds risking suuuuper wet harvest, PM right before harvest, bud rot and all that fancy jazz. in the case of the study it's a good example to show that generally when people speak about flushing before harvest it's a complete different process than flushing toxicitties out. when people state "these ladies are getting their last feed" typically from then till harvest day is the "flush before harvest" people speak of because then they only getting water and the plants are making due with whats left in it and the media, with the two keys being - don't harvest the day after you feed, because the plant will have compounds in it still needs to break down and this may cause harsh smoke, and the second one, wait till the plants are turning yellow indicating the advancing breakdown of chlorophyll, again reducing the harshness of the smoke... you can draw your on conclusions from that, but for me that only means one thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Weskush said: this a mid grow flush in synthetic situation for adjusting ppm, so depending on given ppm it could be justified, but eh. not really what we're discussing here. or am I only listening with one ear again? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreX Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said: in the pursuit of truth, when you're calling someones work and actual science people have done in labs with machines and advanced technologies that cost lots of money and time a "100% bro science" just means you looking for an argument, which I believe you are not doing? Dude - the video you posted straight up abolishes the necessity of flushing, and then he sums up a few lame time saving tips and minor nute saving tips. of which the time saved and nutes saved over the period of 5 years would still be negligible. the okes with all the equipment and advanced tech and money pretty much pointed out with great detail how little a difference it makes to the final product... in other words, its total bro science that it makes any difference. 6 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said: so help me understand how it is a waste when you're saving on nutrients because you don't have to give them because the plant doesn't want more AND you don't have to mix them? seeing as i reuse my medium, the "waste" would just go into the next cycle for the next set of plants to uptake. i also need to feed my plants very regularly, regardless of phase of veg or flower, so i would just not be saving any time on that watering front. 12 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said: with this statement it is safe to say you agree that plants naturally stop using nutes towards the end, right? no, this is not what i am saying at all - a plant fading because its hungry, vs a plant fading due to it reaching the end of its biological clock are completely different. i feed my plants right up until harvest day for the reason i mentioned above, as well as because the plants i grow fade by themselves giving me a really good idea for when they are ready - some plants take a much longer time to naturally fade than others. Consider outdoor plants and how they flower and then fade - how would you explain that then? because most outdoor plants get plain water the whole way through its life... Not arguing... well i am a little bit... but im just trying to elaborate on my experience without flushing and the success i have had, and am just trying to get the point across that flushing is absolutely unnecessary for a great yeild, and the factors around harsh smoke black ash and taste is largely dependent on the way the herb is cured 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORGANinc. Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, CreX said: no, this is not what i am saying at all - a plant fading because its hungry, vs a plant fading due to it reaching the end of its biological clock are completely different. Eish bru, plants finish when they realizes there is no/less food. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughty.Psychonaut Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, CreX said: Dude - the video you posted straight up abolishes the necessity of flushing, and then he sums up a few lame time saving tips and minor nute saving tips. of which the time saved and nutes saved over the period of 5 years would still be negligible. the okes with all the equipment and advanced tech and money pretty much pointed out with great detail how little a difference it makes to the final product... in other words, its total bro science that it makes any difference. seeing as i reuse my medium, the "waste" would just go into the next cycle for the next set of plants to uptake. i also need to feed my plants very regularly, regardless of phase of veg or flower, so i would just not be saving any time on that watering front. no, this is not what i am saying at all - a plant fading because its hungry, vs a plant fading due to it reaching the end of its biological clock are completely different. i feed my plants right up until harvest day for the reason i mentioned above, as well as because the plants i grow fade by themselves giving me a really good idea for when they are ready - some plants take a much longer time to naturally fade than others. Consider outdoor plants and how they flower and then fade - how would you explain that then? because most outdoor plants get plain water the whole way through its life... Not arguing... well i am a little bit... but im just trying to elaborate on my experience without flushing and the success i have had, and am just trying to get the point across that flushing is absolutely unnecessary for a great yeild, and the factors around harsh smoke black ash and taste is largely dependent on the way the herb is cured brother brother brother, take a step back real quick. if flushing doesn't change anything this clearly means keeping feeding doesn't change anything either. you get that right? knife cuts both ways right? look at the other side of it. so, if keeping giving nutes doesn't improve on anything, why give it? it's a total waste of money and time and not bro science at all. actually it's simple general 1+1=2 type stuff. there is no debate, mate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORGANinc. Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ill_Evan Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Catch you guys again in a year for the same thread/debate 1 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreX Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said: brother brother brother, take a step back real quick. if flushing doesn't change anything this clearly means keeping feeding doesn't change anything either. you get that right? knife cuts both ways right? look at the other side of it. so, if keeping giving nutes doesn't improve on anything, why give it? it's a total waste of money and time and not bro science at all. actually it's simple general 1+1=2 type stuff. there is no debate, mate. you take a step back man - you are contradicting the shit you are trying to defend. to the point that you are ignoring the videos words saying the best smoke from the blind test was the 0 day flush, and the worst was any of the others that had a flush, all just to save a bit of time and a bit of dirt cheap nutes? where are your priorities man? great smoke, or shortcuts to your time consuming hobby? i literally just said i reuse my medium, so its not a waste for me because any left over nutes just go to the next plants.... i absolutely save more money than most people by reusing my meduims...way more than a few lame tips would save me..... 1+1=2 type stuff if i was throwing away my medium, then maybe ill think about starving my plants a little before harvest. you know...so i can put it toward the next 300l of meduim i buy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnob Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Ding ding ding... well there you have it folks, in a head-to-head round of the highly controversial flush debate the outcome is once again a stalemate 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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