How accurate are PPFD an Color temp apps ?

[Ponica]

I have 2 50w LED flood lights and a single 50w Blurple light. When I put my phone underneath it the light source, the  sensor kind of gives the expected color temps.

 

On the left the LED flood light and on the right the Blurple 50watt Cob LED.

 

And for interest sake the PPFD app gives the below at about 30cm from the light source. (Flood lights) .

 

I have a cheap 120watt QB which I never ended up using. It was meant to light my work space but didnt like the fact that they get so hot. It has a bunch of  4014 SMD leds on it, and they measure just over 4000K.
Will 4000K work for Veg and flowering ?

Edited February 21, 2022 by Ponica

[Ponica]

The below is my first sucessfull-ish grow.

 

The below 2 plants started at the same time and the one on the right chilling under the Bluple light which also gets a good amount of LED flood light seems to be flowering much denser than the one that only gets light from the  LED flood lights. Which makes me think 4000k is ok for veging but once you get to flowering things go south.

 

[SkunkPharm]

https://growopz.com/products/prototype-sale-85w-bridgelux-vero29-2700k-90-cri-fixture

my advice. Get a decent light see link. With this light you will be able to grow at least one solid plant. And it will pay itself back after the first grow. 

[Ill_Evan]

3 hours ago, Ponica said:

And for interest sake the PPFD app gives the below at about 30cm from the light source. (Flood lights) .

Even if your meter were 100% accurate, you'd want to be hitting more like 700 umol when in flower, so you've got half the power you need right now.

3 hours ago, Ponica said:

I have a cheap 120watt QB which I never ended up using.

For one plant, you'd be much better off with using this 120W QB than the flood lights. If it's too hot for your liking, maybe mod it and attach a PC fan to it. I am sure someone here has done it before and can guide you. 

[Ponica]

20 hours ago, SkunkPharm said:

https://growopz.com/products/prototype-sale-85w-bridgelux-vero29-2700k-90-cri-fixture

my advice. Get a decent light see link. With this light you will be able to grow at least one solid plant. And it will pay itself back after the first grow. 

Thanks for the link will check it out. Seems like a nice light.

 

18 hours ago, Ill_Evan said:

 

For one plant, you'd be much better off with using this 120W QB than the flood lights. If it's too hot for your liking, maybe mod it and attach a PC fan to it. I am sure someone here has done it before and can guide you. 

I have my doubts. Technically the flood lights are QBs aswell, Some of them come with cobs and other QBs just smaller with  higher wattage LEDs but with the same color temp. We can argue the "QB" that i have will be better in the sense that they will distribute light over a bigger area compared to the flood lights.   I initially bought them to light up a work area and I was going to mount them against wood. In a tent they wont be touching anything.

 

 

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

@Ponica

To answer your question on how accurate those apps are - they're not accurate at all. don't rely on the information you get from them. keep the information then get a proper light meter so you can see how drastically off they are. 

also the weaker the light the more inaccurate the app will be. IMHO the amount of light you working with there really shouldn't even need testing for. you just need more of it and better quality. 

11 hours ago, Ponica said:

I have my doubts. Technically the flood lights are QBs aswell, Some of them come with cobs and other QBs just smaller with  higher wattage LEDs but with the same color temp. We can argue the "QB" that i have will be better in the sense that they will distribute light over a bigger area compared to the flood lights.   I initially bought them to light up a work area and I was going to mount them against wood. In a tent they wont be touching anything.

Are you saying that you doubt the 120w qb is gona put out more light than 2 x 50w qbs?? because it will. you shouldn't doubt that. unless there is something wrong with the 120w qb. 

A few questions I have for you, if I may...

You keep talking bout flood lights, do you know that the actual diode that puts out the light from a LED is going to make all the difference? So my first question - what diodes are on those flood lights? and what diodes are on the qb? 

Second question - you say flood lights are small qbs, does that not mean qb's are big flood lights? how would this equate to flood lights being better than qb's when you're saying they're smaller? so they're smaller physically and in wattage, yet you say they're more powerfull and work better? 

Third question - flood lights are not made for growing plants, there's a butt load of science that goes into horticultural lighting and it's ever improving science. have you studied the science? 

https://ledgardener.com/

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

On 2/21/2022 at 7:59 PM, Ponica said:

The below is my first sucessfull-ish grow.

 

The below 2 plants started at the same time and the one on the right chilling under the Bluple light which also gets a good amount of LED flood light seems to be flowering much denser than the one that only gets light from the  LED flood lights. Which makes me think 4000k is ok for veging but once you get to flowering things go south.

 

are these two clones of the same plant? 

one under the blurple is looking a bit fatter yeah, can only compare of these are two clones of the exact same plant.

I see a bit of a Ca/Mg deficiency coming on, being a bit further along on the one on the right. you know about this?

I have a blurple, they're not nice grow lights man. take it from someone who already paid the school fees, already stuck their hand in the fire and felt the pain. 

Here's a few photos of my old blurp grow, you see even if you know what you doing pumping 240w full blast blurple your weed still gona come out sub-par  

this is what a proper blurple grow looks like, but it was still shit.  

this light was and is still power, I still use it to veg, but never again will I flower under this thing. 

now taking it a step back, flood lights.... ah man..... those really aren't even ideal for vegging, cause they're not grow lights. you should never be thinking about trying to grow with flood lights, only use them as supplemental lights. there's actual science behind it. you can veg under them, for sure, but you can do a test for yourself, take a 50w horticultural light and a 50w flood light and grow the same cutting under both of them. you'll be stunned.

it's all about the type of diodes. 

[Ill_Evan]

Thank you @Naughty.Psychonaut 

[Ponica]

13 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

@Ponica

To answer your question on how accurate those apps are - they're not accurate at all. don't rely on the information you get from them. keep the information then get a proper light meter so you can see how drastically off they are. 

also the weaker the light the more inaccurate the app will be. IMHO the amount of light you working with there really shouldn't even need testing for. you just need more of it and better quality. 

Are you saying that you doubt the 120w qb is gona put out more light than 2 x 50w qbs?? because it will. you shouldn't doubt that. unless there is something wrong with the 120w qb. 

A few questions I have for you, if I may...

You keep talking bout flood lights, do you know that the actual diode that puts out the light from a LED is going to make all the difference? So my first question - what diodes are on those flood lights? and what diodes are on the qb? 

Second question - you say flood lights are small qbs, does that not mean qb's are big flood lights? how would this equate to flood lights being better than qb's when you're saying they're smaller? so they're smaller physically and in wattage, yet you say they're more powerfull and work better? 

Third question - flood lights are not made for growing plants, there's a butt load of science that goes into horticultural lighting and it's ever improving science. have you studied the science? 

https://ledgardener.com/

Thanks for all the info.

I may be wrong that I don't doubt . When I say flood lights i'm just trying to explain what I have as a light source. As in making it clear I'm not using proper grow lights. The 120W QBs have 4014 SMD leds, the "floods" dont have any markings. The reason why I doubt that they will be better is because visually the LEDs look the same as the 120W QB and yes i'm aware 2 x 50watt is less than 120 watt (Usually these Chinese things make use of the same cheap components) both is the very common FOYU brand , the 120w QB is also not designed for growing plants neither does it claim to be for growing. , I got them from my local China store.  I'm sure it would cost more than R200 if they were proper LEDs that put out the right amount of light for growing. I'm willing to give it a shot. But I think I should rather settle for something more fit for purpose. Be it a QB for growing or whatever is available. Market seems to be flooded with fake overstated output which is making it bit hard to find the right stuff.

I have recently been to a shop in Pta and dont want to name / shame them because the honestly give good customer service. But they are selling a used 1000watt grow light and swear that it's 1000watt. After some research  it actually has a 70w PSU on the inside.

 

Regarding the deficiency

Would you say its a  Mg/Ca deficiency, or maybe nitrogen. All sources that I have checked points to nitrogen which seems to be common issue when the plant goes into flowering?

By the way these plants are growing in white 4l hydro buckets, the light penetration also caused pond scum. Also changed the res many times to try and compensate for deficiencies. I have since bought grow bags per ite and calmag and some other things. When I'm ready I will start from scratch maybe start a thread then I grow purely based on input i get from this forum without altering any thing by my own. Will be interesting.

 

But I think I need to fix the lights first.

 

I can afford something in the line of 2K for lights. Any recommendations ?

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Ponica

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

the suggestion made by skunkpharm is probably gona be the best thing for your situation right now. best bang for buck.

it's 85w of proper grow light, I am willing to bet that light will outperform all your FOYU lights combined. 

if I may advise, stay as far as you possibly can from any cheap china stuff, especially when it comes to growing weed and you're focussed on quality. I would rather suggest using the sun as a light source than spending any of your hard earned money on china crap. you just shooting yourself in the foot forking out unnecessary school fees. 

once you ready to spend around 4 to 7k on a light I may be able to help you a little better, with a budget of around 6k you can easily import all components and build a light worth 10 to 15k.

it's really easy as pie, like monkey puzzle for school kids, you follow the diagram, connect red to red, black to black, there you go. BOOM, BIG LIGHT  

just look at her go!!! that light cost me 4k to build myself. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

if you go with the light skunkpharm recommended you still left with some cash to put into savings towards that DIY project that's gona drastically change the game for you. 

when it comes to growing weed indoors, your light quality is going to be one of, if not the biggest factor contributing to your success. 

[greenkush]

53 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

if I may advise, stay as far as you possibly can from any cheap china stuff, especially when it comes to growing weed and you're focussed on quality. I would rather suggest using the sun as a light source than spending any of your hard earned money on china crap. you just shooting yourself in the foot forking out unnecessary school fees. 

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with lights coming out of China.

 

 

All grown under lights from alibaba, zero issues at all.

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

2 hours ago, greenkush said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with lights coming out of China.

 

 

All grown under lights from alibaba, zero issues at all.

lol I ordered my stuff off Digikey and they in China too  maybe I should've rather said to stay away from local china shops? or just the lights the FOYU brand produces?

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

2 hours ago, greenkush said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with lights coming out of China.

 

 

All grown under lights from alibaba, zero issues at all.

didn't mean to upset you or step on your toes about your alibaba light brother

but technically, what I said was

"if I may advise, stay as far as you possibly can from any cheap china stuff" 

with emphesis on the CHEAP. 

if it's cheap it can be made wherever in the world it would probably still not be advisable.

[greenkush]

36 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

didn't mean to upset you or step on your toes about your alibaba light brother

but technically, what I said was

"if I may advise, stay as far as you possibly can from any cheap china stuff" 

with emphesis on the CHEAP. 

if it's cheap it can be made wherever in the world it would probably still not be advisable.

You never stepped on my toes, I was merely pointing out that you can get some good deals. I've got lights that cost me 3K from alibaba and I've grown perfectly fine under them.

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

8 minutes ago, greenkush said:

You never stepped on my toes, I was merely pointing out that you can get some good deals. I've got lights that cost me 3K from alibaba and I've grown perfectly fine under them.

cool cool, thanks bro I was just saying that because I was told recently I should check how I speak to people  

yeah you can get good deals for sure, but 3k is not exactly cheap. I said to stay away from cheap china stuff not every single thing from china 

why not link OP with the details so he can get himself something nice like you? he's already really close to 3k so it's possible  

[Ponica]

Yesss please I can stretch it another 2K if I must (Now my cheapskateness is showing)

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

hopefully @greenkush gona sort you out!  

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

well @greenkush said you should be fine with those lights you got there so hopefully if he doesn't drop the link, atleast he'll teach you how to use your light correctly? 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Naughty.Psychonaut

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

while we're waiting for him, I see you say you can stretch it another 2k? giving you 4k total. 

heres my order from digikey, it's in your budget!

those components all under 4k. then you just need the odds and ends, might be pushing the budget a little here, but can also work out good deals if you working local, can also get these things over time. 

Aluminium T-strips = R400 

Wires = R200

Wire Connectors (wago) = R80

Plug = R30

weatherproof double sided tape = R80 

small cable ties to make the wiring neat = R30 

[Ponica]

Thanks dude!

 

I will take a look at those, do you think communica or RS will stock those ? BTW I live eat, sleep and grew up on electronics so not a big deal for me to build my own.

Will wait for @greenkush hopefully he can give some guidance.

I also found a used light on fb market place.

https://www.phoenixskysa.com/product-page/budmaster-240-square

For R2800.00

What about a Mars Hydro TS600 100Watt ? They retail for about 3K

 

Side note.

You made me laugh when you said i'm going to pay unnecessary school fees. Its too late. In the past I already spent a enough money on lights to buy something decent

I built the below, unfortunately it did not turn out very well. It lasted for about a week, one of the cobs somehow shorted its self out causing the DB to trip. After checking conductivity the live made contact with the frame. At closer inspection I cannot see where it made contact. I assume it burned its way through the resin painted coating. Fortunately I had it earthed properly. Wont be using these again they are down right dangerous. They are the blurple ones.

 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Ponica

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

13 minutes ago, Ponica said:

Thanks dude!

 

I will take a look at those, do you think communica or RS will stock those ? BTW I live eat, sleep and grew up on electronics so not a big deal for me to build my own.

Will wait for @greenkush hopefully he can give some guidance.

I also found a used light on fb market place.

https://www.phoenixskysa.com/product-page/budmaster-240-square

For R2800.00

 

Side note.

You made me laugh when you said i'm going to pay unnecessary school fees. Its too late. In the past I already spent a enough money on lights to buy something decent

I built the below, unfortunately it did not turn out very well. It lasted for about a week, one of the cobs somehow shorted its self out causing the DB to trip. After checking conductivity the live made contact with the frame. At closer inspection I cannot see where it made contact. I assume it burned its way through the resin painted coating. Fortunately I had it earthed properly. Wont be using these again they are down right dangerous. They are the blurple ones.

 

 

niiiiice that's a good design!! you could possibly still use the frame for the new light.

cobs used to be the hot shit, but the tech is outdated now. it came and went like a wave. there are some good ones, but the blurple LEDs may aswell be discontinued as grow lights and I wouldn't complain  don't get me wrong, they still have their place and I know from experience what they can do, but I guess there's no such thing as unnecessary school fees as long as you learning something I still owe my parents the fees they paid while I was skipping class like an idiot it would just be sooooooooooo much easier if there wasn't such a big variety of things dictating that there will br a "best of them" and the "worst of them". idealy we would all like to live in a world where everything it a quality product doesn't matter where you bought it or for how much. but that's not the case  

that's a crazy wiring situation!!! luckily it was earthed hey, but was the wire exposed where it made contact with the frame? 

not sure what LED strips you used, but what's cool about these new school smart LEDs with all kinds of different functions is that they have wire inserts instead of the old school exposed soldering or open wire connections. reducing the chances of running into that same problem they look like this.... 

you expose 5mm of wire, slide it into the little insert till the insulation touches the housing then you know you safe  

if you make use of wago connectorts you also won't have any exposed connections so no wires can touch anything. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

52 minutes ago, Ponica said:

 

https://www.phoenixskysa.com/product-page/budmaster-240-square

For R2800.00

woah that's a good deal actually... 

2.8k for 240w samsung qb, not bad at all  

is this thing second hand? from 5.5k to 2.8k is quite a drastic price drop so I would just check with the seller what's the reason for selling and the history of the light. how long has it been running, all that stuff. 

would you still be able to choose a spectrum or you just have to take the one the person is selling? 

they give 3 options -

4000Kelvin - more of a veg light

3500Kelvin - could do both, but flowers will do better under even lower spectrum

3000Kelvin - more of a flower light

[Ponica]

10 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

woah that's a good deal actually... 

2.8k for 240w samsung qb, not bad at all  

is this thing second hand? from 5.5k to 2.8k is quite a drastic price drop so I would just check with the seller what's the reason for selling and the history of the light. how long has it been running, all that stuff. 

would you still be able to choose a spectrum or you just have to take the one the person is selling? 

they give 3 options -

4000Kelvin - more of a veg light

3500Kelvin - could do both, but flowers will do better under even lower spectrum

3000Kelvin - more of a flower light

No its a used unit so I would not be able to choose, the guy is selling it on FB market place, he said that he has a grow shop and from time to time have grow lights. I also think the one he has may be an older version or something because the picture how has shown me does not quite match the pictures in the link I sent but very similar and did say its a 240watt.

But if I could choose It would be the lower spectrum. Vegging seems easy and can easily be supplemented with most lights. But flowering seems a bit more specific to the lower range.?, what you say ?

[Ponica]

Regarding the earthing issue. Those cobs are supposed to go into an enclosure and is covered with a lens. But in my case the terminals were covered with high heat silicone. But when one of them short circuited I imagine  the short is on the inside of the cob somewhere. I took the cob off of the frame and the back of the cob which is alu has conductivity with the live. So maybe the Vslot alu profile didn't dissipate enough heat leaving the cob to cook it self on the inside.