Diatomaceous earth and seedlings/ clones

[TikyIckee]

Hi guys, another noobie looking for info. So I used some diatomaceous earth on some clones after noticing some fungus gnats buzzing around. Its the first time I've used the stuff, didn't really read instruction, just added a few teaspoons over the topsoil and watered. This was to small pots carrying clones. Two days later and stange thing has happened,  the clones that were drooping and struggling are making an awesome comeback but an older batch of clones that were doing well are now drooping as if wilting. 

I have some theories but curious and be very grateful to hear the opinions out there.

Peace ✌ 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

9 hours ago, TikyIckee said:

Hi guys, another noobie looking for info. So I used some diatomaceous earth on some clones after noticing some fungus gnats buzzing around. Its the first time I've used the stuff, didn't really read instruction, just added a few teaspoons over the topsoil and watered. This was to small pots carrying clones. Two days later and stange thing has happened,  the clones that were drooping and struggling are making an awesome comeback but an older batch of clones that were doing well are now drooping as if wilting. 

I have some theories but curious and be very grateful to hear the opinions out there.

Peace ✌ 

Hi @TikyIckee welcome to the forum. 

Can you share some photos of what you busy with so we can see? Easier to guage what's wrong when taking a look at things. 

First note - DE works best when dry. I usually sprinkle when top soil is dry. So would water then wait 24hrs then put a layer of DE on the dry topsoil, you could even dust the plant with it. With the next watering the DE will go down into the soil, but trust me having it sit there dry for a day or two and dusting the plant with the stuff will do much more for you than watering it straight in. 

Second Note - this ties into the first note, most soil dwelling pests you don't want will lay eggs in the soil and only the eggs that are in the top 5cm of soil will hatch. that top 5cm is the breeding grounds for stuff like fungus gnats and other pests. so you only really need to cap that top layer by putting a nice healthy layer of dry DE ontop of that. eggs will hatch, larvae will move upwards to pop out the soil and on their way they encounter thick dry layer of DE. this is how they die. living soft bodies have to crawl/wriggle over some dry DE to kill it. 

if you just water it in it acts more as a nutrient than a pesticide.

My opinion would be that DE - when used the right way - wouldn't cause plants any stress. 

it does however provide the soil with small amounts of silica and calcium which are both nutrients cannabis plants use, maybe the reason why some of the cuts jumped up and looking happy with the added DE. 

however, you say other cuttings looking less happy? this could be a completely different reason. 

First, maybe you used a little too much DE, but more likely there is something else going on. 

This will be easier to say if we can see photos? perhaps some more info aswell? 

Organic? Synthetic? Ph? What soil/medium you using? How big are the cuttings? What size pot? What nutrients? How often do you water? Do you let the soil dry before watering? those things... 

[TikyIckee]

Hey @Naughty.Psychonaut

Thank you kindly for the welcome and for taking the time to assist with this mystery. I'm hoping that the pic might answer some of your questions and further assist with a diagnosis. 

The GC clone on the right is the only one that looks a bit wet as I thought that the soil might be too dry and watered yesterday. I left the other 2 clones as is but 24hrs later they all look the same so water doesn't seem to be the issue.  

I'm using Freedom Farms soil, haven't  started nutes yet, wanted them to settle in first, watering lightly with a spray bottle every 2 to 3 days, only water when soil is dry, ph is 6.9. As mentioned, they were doing well, nice open canopy as opposed to the now droopy, wilty profile. 

These last few days have been cold, I don't have an aircon but temp for last 24hrs were 15.5 min. and 18.0max. I've brought them into my living room and will monitor temp and any changes. 

Thanks again for your trouble. 

✌ ☮ 

 

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

21 hours ago, TikyIckee said:

Hey @Naughty.Psychonaut

Thank you kindly for the welcome and for taking the time to assist with this mystery. I'm hoping that the pic might answer some of your questions and further assist with a diagnosis. 

The GC clone on the right is the only one that looks a bit wet as I thought that the soil might be too dry and watered yesterday. I left the other 2 clones as is but 24hrs later they all look the same so water doesn't seem to be the issue.  

I'm using Freedom Farms soil, haven't  started nutes yet, wanted them to settle in first, watering lightly with a spray bottle every 2 to 3 days, only water when soil is dry, ph is 6.9. As mentioned, they were doing well, nice open canopy as opposed to the now droopy, wilty profile. 

These last few days have been cold, I don't have an aircon but temp for last 24hrs were 15.5 min. and 18.0max. I've brought them into my living room and will monitor temp and any changes. 

Thanks again for your trouble. 

✌ ☮ 

 

 

Only a pleasure! 

How are they looking today? 

First question - before transplanting, what did the roots look like? more than one or two roots and at least longer than 5cm? sometimes transplanting a clone too early when it doesn't have strong roots yet, they can go south. 

Through what you're explaining to me it just sounds like they're underwatered, though.

You say you put them in FF, was this the green bag?

Did you water them in thoroughly or you just spraying them? - if so they should be underwatered. 

With any transplant you wana wet the new medium till at least 50% field capacity for the roots to move into the new soil. if you're transplanting bigger plants it's advised to saturate the soil completely. in both cases as with small cuttings and with big plants, once they're transplanted and watered in, you leave them till the soil is dry again. this will ensure you not drowning / suffocating the roots. 

You did a good thing by getting them out the cold as cold soil slows down root activity quite a bit. Just note that when the sun is out you should put them in the sun. that's where they wana be. If they're watered properly the sun will not hurt them. of they're under watered the sun will toast them. and in the unlikely case that your soil was too wet for too long you could be facing some kinda root rot, but you never mentioned anything about saturating the soil or the soil being overly wet. So I don't consider that.

Consensus:

Soil+Pot light and dry = water with room temperature water and take them out in the sun.

Soil+Pot heavy and wet = take them out in the sun so the soil can dry. 

[TikyIckee]

Hey @Naughty.Psychonaut Good to hear from you again, bud.  Still looking at bit droopy but lots has changed. It's like my uncle Keith used to say, " if you pick up ladies just anywhere you might get crabs   " in my case it was  🕷mites .  Yupp , as I see it " Growers STD "

Anyhow, you can't go back, only forward so gathered those girls, pulled a JZ, and gave them a long shower, Nkandla style

Then it was the long task of removing the other girls from my tent, giving them some attention, removing everything from my grow room and treating and disinfecting everything. Will spare you the exhausting details but those mites are a thing of the past and my grow space smells like a surgical ward again. 

The girls have been through a bit of an ordeal today so it's no surprise they are still drooping but I rekon they will be strutting their stuff again in another 2 to 3 days. 

There goes Eiishkom again, just checked on my emergency lights and all is good for now. BTW how do you guys keep the lights on during loadshedding? WINTER IS COMING! 

I think I need to look into an inverter/ups setup, and deeper down the rabbit hole 🕳 I go

Thanks for the detailed description of clones transplant. It's encouraging that I've been on the money with that one. 

In the dark, feeling Very Berry right now, think will get me some Dutch Coffee and cheese on the way to bed. Peace ✌ ☮ 

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Aah cool, I am glad you got everything sorted! keep us updated with the results! 

21 hours ago, TikyIckee said:

BTW how do you guys keep the lights on during loadshedding? 

you don't need to worry about that, the only thing that can stress your plant is too much light during flower. which eskom will never do. If you're in veg cycle and the power goes off for 6hrs a day, use those 6hrs as your dark period and just let the lights run the rest of the 18hrs of the day the electricity is on. usually the worst it gets is 4 or 5 hours of loadshedding a day. we once had 6 hrs a day for about a month, but never again. 

as long as your veg plants can have 18hrs of light they fine, you could even get away with as little as 16hrs during veg. 

the 18hrs of light a plant needs to veg doesn't have to be all consecutive.

same with flower

during flower you only need 12hrs of light, giving you a window of 12hrs to make sure the dark periods fall during those times. much easier than with veg. 

what you do have to consider when talking about loadshedding is your fans. air sirculation. RH.......... the dreaded WPM the first problem you'll run into with no electricity will be some kinda fungi or insect. 

especially when you're in flower, buds carry a lot of moisture.

During veg you want a bit of a higher RH reading somewhere between 50 and 65% is good. 

During flower you want a bit of a lower RH, because of the buds. 

a Tent or flower space tends to fill up more during flower aswell, so if you have a power outage it takes only a few minutes for the RH to skyrocket, even more so on a hot day and worst of all during rainy days and in winter!!! 

if you do end up with UPS system, run your fans and air sirculation off it rather than your lights. 

[Prom]

 Cheapest energency light is one of those. You still have to set them according to your dark times. Not helping they activate when it should be dark

Plants will not grow but the sensors will tell is light phase.

Or run autos and ignore what eskom does 

[TikyIckee]

Hey @Naughty.Psychonaut 

Thanks for the feedback bud. I've been through a grow before and I'm glad I was with you on the RH targets, the  wpm and pest danger ( tells me that I'm doing this right ). 

What proved to be a real mind f$$, for me was that the light hours didn't have to be consecutive

What a game changer! I can't tell you how many times I've run out to my tent at night with emergency lights I still need time to process how all this is going to change my grow practice. I'm in awe. Gonna pop you a few questions when I'm ready. Thank you Master.

Peace✌ 

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

lol yeah nah the only interrupted light cycle that'll stress a plant is if it gets flashes of light or stray rays during their dark times. 

if your tent or grow room doesn't have pin holes or light leaks or plugs or appliances with tiny lights on them that are on inside the tent during dark time, you'll be fiiiiine

been growing with loadshedding a couple years now, still havent even thought about putting my fans on UPS, luckily I am in the cape winelands so don't have to struggle with high RH at all really. can see it being a problem for the coastal oaks or the inland oaks during winter or any rainy seasons. I moved out of Hermanus maybe 2 years ago now, when I was there I alsmost had to get a dehumidifier, and they're expensive, luckily I moved away there  

also, I have such small setups it's easy to run through everything and make changes or correct anything that went wrong. 

another thing that can save your ass with the WPM is having a rigorous IPM regime and sticking to it religiously. 

have seen so many people throwing up their hands saying growing weed is the hardest thing in the world cz their plant keeps getting spider mites or WPM, I ask did you do IPM? then they look at me like I am crazy for even suggesting it. 

to those guys I just laugh and don't give them clones anymore.

11 hours ago, TikyIckee said:

Gonna pop you a few questions when I'm ready. Thank you Master.

sure thing, shoot them anytime! 

I am far from a master though but thanks I am flattered