DIY LED

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Finally convinced a friend to upgrade from HID, helped him build a LED qb bar light.

He was thinking of retiring the HID for many reasons. replacing shit the whole time. electricity consumption. heat.... told him if he puts out the cash I'll source and order the shit for him, recieve everything and when time comes to slap it all together I'll just need a hand, he just needed that last nudge and so it begins!  

I think I was more excited about the build than he was!

He's got a 1.2m x 1.2m x 2m tent, so we basically copied the 4'x4' example design on LED gardener, used the Q series samsung LM301H strips in 3000k. 

First things first, size of the tent will determine the size of the frame that we build for the LEDs. Work out how much Aluminium strip we gona need. Source local aluminium extrusions. This was the only profile available in bulk on the day, we didn't wana wait, so we planned around this. You can work with any profile and have any extrusion company roll out the profile you want at the lenght you want. Easiest part of the build.

Having the aluminium, knowing how you can lay strips on the extrusion profile you can use this information to spread out the LED strips as much as possible so there are no fluxuation areas. no need to raise the hight of the light to get better coverage which would mean loosing intensity. no need to have to have certain height requirements for best output, because you don't have excessive heat coming from the light and not ALL the light comes from one spot and then has to spread, instead you spread the strips out further so you can bring them closer to your plants without having intensity issues. also the configuration being a bar style light you wont have issues with the fixture heating up at all. we run the light for 18hrs, shine laser thermometer on the frame from below the light source, got 34°C. 5cm away from the light source on the aluminium frame we got 29°C and at leaf surface at 15cm away it was room temperature... will get a apogee under the light asap, if anyone wants to follow up on that. 

now, the layout.... knowing what amount of strips you gona use and the size of tent you have to put them all in, you build a frame that can easily fit inside the tent then just space out the strips as much as possible. Next step was to cut the aluminium to the right lengths and clean up the edges. 

Along with the aluminium for the frame you'll need the smallest pop rivets the shop has to offer and a aluminium drill bit same size as the rivets. Now, slap the frame together. 2 long slats get a tine 45° corner cut out the flat so the fin is still in one peice, make a small cut on the other side so you're able to bend the aluminium without it snapping. grab a big 90° angle, make sure you have 2 x 90° angles. lay them together making sure all 4 corners are 90°, throw some clamps on, drill right throug the 2 corners that meet and pop them together with the rivet. 

Now grab a electrical junction box to hide all your wire conections, use the junction box to space out the aluminium stips, making sure you can fit enough strips on to accommodate all the LED strips needed. 

using a pensil, mark out where the aluminium strips lay and number them 1 - X and mark the frame with numbers corresponding to the strip that goes there. drill holes in all the aluminium strips where you need to pop them to the frame, put them back on the frame using the numbers to see where each one goes, use the hole im the aluminium strip to mark where you need to drill into the frame, drill all the marked points, lay them out, pop them in.

here is what ours looked like at this point.

BOOOM!!!!! got a digikey box in the mail  

It's all there and all undamaged! Now that we have the driver. it's time to build a bracket to hold the driver in place. same like we built the square for the frame, just a small one, like this.... -note the corners

driver still has some space to move around, but sits nice and snug, we ended up putting two small self tap screws throug the screw slots at the bottom of the driver to hold it in place, didn't get photos of it, but did get photos of how we attached the bracket to the frame, using two small peices of aluminium and popping them onthe the fins upside down we now had a flat surface to mount the bracket onto. like this... 

Here's where we're at now, 

Time to make this big boy easy to hang! 5.5mm threaded hooks with 2 self locking nuts, one screwed all the way to the top and one to hold it in place. 

Time to slap on some double sided thermal tape, this tape can hold up to 60kg at 120°C.... or so it sais..... so it should work! 

AND YOU KNOW WHAT COMES AFTER THE THERMAL TAPE!!!!!  

FUCK YEAH 

step by step getting there!!! 

now for the fun part, the wire nightmare.... luckily I have OCD-AF and find great therapy in wire management! we also quickly reaslised that we're going to need more than one junction box, easy peasy, the driver has 2 outputd so slap another one on the other side of the driver and have half the wires one side of the light and other half on the other side. 

I got so carried away with finishing up the light I never took a photo of what the wiring looked like when I was finished, but that was by far the most satisfying thing about the whole build. when time came to plug the bitch in I was just focussing on the damn light. here she is in all her pride and glory 

here she is lighting up the tent, and this is where she'll be for the next 10 years probably. hopefully. it's a 1mx1m frame in a 1.2m x 1.2m tent - fits perfect.

those intetested in the wire work if you wana see what it looks like I'll lower the light to take a couple photos, otherwise this last photo will show just how hidden and tucked away everything is. not one loose hanging wire, no excessive wires, no bulky no extras. 

Now to answer some questions..... 

LED Strips - R3831

Driver - R2300

Import Tax - R1500

Aluminium - R600

Thermal tape - R200

Ratchet ropes x 2 - R300

Those are all the more expensive parts of the build, the other stuff like hooks, wires, wago connectors, cable ties + hooks for wire management, pop rivets all those things gona work out +/- another R500

Let's say all in all = R9231 

that's that.

buddy got 3 x Peanut Butter Breath cuts and 3 x Canna Health Genetic #21 cuttings under that light, potted in FF premium classic, will post few updates here as things progress. 

have a good weekend all!

[The Grass Baas]

Very nice build man. Very nice. I did a build like this not too long ago but I went for the bigger strips. Their measurements were 1100mm in length so was perfect for my 1200mm tent. Plus I only did 4x bars of 3 strips each.

I just recently harvested 2 batches of 1 strain under 2 different lights. The one is the 480w diy build off of LEDgardener and the other a bought 480w from kingbrite. I must admit. With all the effort and time spent making a light (which is a fun process) I found it was cheaper to buy from kingbrite. None the less fun experience.

One thing I want to mention is that with my previous harvest I found the Kingbrite light produced more nugs of good density than the DIY. Wether it is the penetration of light, or the red diodes on the kingbrite, I am not sure. I kind of think it is the red diodes because both lights are 3500K (What K are the strips you got?).So with my next batch under the DIY I will be lollipopping very close to the top to make sure all light penetrates. I am looking at getting 3x bloom booster lights from kingbrite. Still thinking about it. They are 30w red diode lights which I think could fit inbetween my existing light strips which are 3 spaces. Perfect. Only problem is they sell them seperately. I will try convince them to send me 3x lights on one 90w driver instead of 3x 30w drivers. Will see if I can add it to the DIY. Maybe they would sell me the strips seperate and I will just source the correct driver. Anyway. Just a thought. But definitely let your friend know to clean those babies up when flowering. He won't regret it. I could definitely get over 400g of proper prime nugs from that light.

Very nice build. Looking forward to what comes out of it.

[ChrisCPT]

Wow... and respect!

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

22 hours ago, The Grass Baas said:

Very nice build man. Very nice. I did a build like this not too long ago but I went for the bigger strips. Their measurements were 1100mm in length so was perfect for my 1200mm tent. Plus I only did 4x bars of 3 strips each.

I just recently harvested 2 batches of 1 strain under 2 different lights. The one is the 480w diy build off of LEDgardener and the other a bought 480w from kingbrite. I must admit. With all the effort and time spent making a light (which is a fun process) I found it was cheaper to buy from kingbrite. None the less fun experience.

One thing I want to mention is that with my previous harvest I found the Kingbrite light produced more nugs of good density than the DIY. Wether it is the penetration of light, or the red diodes on the kingbrite, I am not sure. I kind of think it is the red diodes because both lights are 3500K (What K are the strips you got?).So with my next batch under the DIY I will be lollipopping very close to the top to make sure all light penetrates. I am looking at getting 3x bloom booster lights from kingbrite. Still thinking about it. They are 30w red diode lights which I think could fit inbetween my existing light strips which are 3 spaces. Perfect. Only problem is they sell them seperately. I will try convince them to send me 3x lights on one 90w driver instead of 3x 30w drivers. Will see if I can add it to the DIY. Maybe they would sell me the strips seperate and I will just source the correct driver. Anyway. Just a thought. But definitely let your friend know to clean those babies up when flowering. He won't regret it. I could definitely get over 400g of proper prime nugs from that light.

Very nice build. Looking forward to what comes out of it.

Thanks man  

we got these strips in 3000K. 

no doubt you're right about the red diodes making the difference.

you have a good plan there, I haven't thought about that, yet. 

I am now, though  

my bar LED in my flower tent is just over 300W also 3000K, but it's the LM561C diodes. I can let the plants come within 5 to 10 cm of the light without light stress, cz it's so soft, then you get good penetration. I pull average about 80 to 100g off a plant in a 0.2m space. 

but I am sure it will be even better with the deep / far red diodes

I have 5 plants in a 1m x 1m tent, giving each plant 0.2m2. I've harvested 3 batches flowered under this light. everytime I hit between 400 to 500g. 

that's more than 1g/W

I have a perpetual cycle, I have found if my flowering ladies take long to finish up I leave the veg area running for longer and ending up with bigger plants and also bigger yield, landing more on the side of 500g and times when I move smaller plants into flower I land more on the side of 400g. 

so I guess that's also a contributing factor. 

but then like you said, bud quality..... we want those golf ball rock buds. I guess that's where the red diodes come in to make the biggest difference. 

I think the little bit it adds to the spectrum provides the plant with a certain chemical or causes a certain chemical reaction in the plant that it benefits from. it's only natural, though. If you think about sunlight it is literally a mix of everything, it's the fullest of full spectrums out there and that's what the plant wants and it pumps full power. not a certain amount of power being devided amongst different spectrum outputs. it's full blast everything. if we could replicate that, it would be amazing, but for now adding deep / far red diodes to a 3000K is already one step closer. plus we know it's not all about spectrum, some LEDs have a fuller spectrum, but less of other stuff and the configuration is shit then the light doesn't perform. 

example of this is the far red and IR diodes I have in my blurple light. they don't mean shit, just cause the rest of the light is shit 

I'll let the guy finish a grow with that light on his own, let him play around with it, will take a look at the results and report everything then see what we gona do to improve

[SkunkPharm]

Yes when Led was still kak expensive it was worth building your own lights. But with Lumii Black 720w coming into The market it will be hard to build something for cheaper than that.

[The Grass Baas]

1 hour ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

I can let the plants come within 5 to 10 cm of the light without light stress, cz it's so soft,

Hey man. Yeah I noticed in my last grow I can also get a little closer. I like to keep it about 30cm, maybe 25cm from the canopy but I am pretty sure I can get nice and close. Maybe 15cm or 10cm. Will check. 

1 hour ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

but then like you said, bud quality..... we want those golf ball rock buds. I guess that's where the red diodes come in to make the biggest difference. 

  Love it. Golf balls are my favorite. I think definitely red diodes and a good cleanup should help.

1 hour ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

example of this is the far red and IR diodes I have in my blurple light. they don't mean shit, just cause the rest of the light is shit 

I hear you man. Also been on a blurple light and what a piece of shit. Maybe good for vegging. I actually foujd my normal 6400k flood lights do a better job. Lol.

1 hour ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

I'll let the guy finish a grow with that light on his own, let him play around with it, will take a look at the results and report everything then see what we gona do to improve

Cant wait man. Would be very cool to see. Please let us know what he produced under that bad boy. Once again. Nice build

[TikyIckee]

Hey Peeps

This was an awesome read. Kudos to you @Naughty.Psychonaut, the light looks like it came straight of an assembly line. What's put me off building one is stray wires and sh#£ that look more like Frankensteins monster. 

I currently use an HLG 100 to veg and have 2x600W HPS lights which I switch over to flower. I'm  pretty pleased with them so far and there's been no real stress to plants as the switch from LED to HPS happens. 

Been eyeing out the Lumi 720W which according to my research runs on the lumi ballast. My confusion here is : Is a driver and a ballast the same thing? I have been under the impression that a driver simply converts AC to DC for the diodes to run correctly. So driver for LED and ballast for HPS.  Would anyone out there recommend the Lumi 720W? Is anyone able to do an explanation (for dummies) on my driver/ ballast confusion?

Stay safe, stay blessed. Peace always ✌ 

[Ill_Evan]

On 4/30/2022 at 8:39 AM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

that's that.

This is the way. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

16 hours ago, Ill_Evan said:

This is the way. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

23 hours ago, SkunkPharm said:

Yes when Led was still kak expensive it was worth building your own lights. But with Lumii Black 720w coming into The market it will be hard to build something for cheaper than that.

I haven't found information on what diodes they use and as I am aware, that's what makes all the difference. I see they mention it's full spectrum with added 660nm diodes, which helps during flower. I would prefer having a flower specific spectrum with the 660nm diodes, and do the veg thing seperate with another light. to my understanding full spectrum lights are good for across the board, but I don't want a full spectrum light to flower with.

they're great for the guys who wants or has to do everything under one light.

if they could have a option to switch between the two spectrums it would be better, but then basically you'll have 345w going out in veg spectrum and 345w in flower spectrum, essentially leaving you with a 345w light to do either with.

it would be kak cheap slapping a bunch of bridgelux or even cheaper diodes on a bar light then adding 660nm diodes. so I guess if I can get confirmation on what diodes they using for the rest of the light and if I can have a flower specific light and not only the full spectrum option, for the price it's at now, then I would concider it for sure. but if it's generic diodes mixed all together with some red in between I don't think it's gona be that great. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

22 hours ago, The Grass Baas said:

Hey man. Yeah I noticed in my last grow I can also get a little closer. I like to keep it about 30cm, maybe 25cm from the canopy but I am pretty sure I can get nice and close. Maybe 15cm or 10cm. Will check. 

  Love it. Golf balls are my favorite. I think definitely red diodes and a good cleanup should help.

I hear you man. Also been on a blurple light and what a piece of shit. Maybe good for vegging. I actually foujd my normal 6400k flood lights do a better job. Lol.

Cant wait man. Would be very cool to see. Please let us know what he produced under that bad boy. Once again. Nice build

Hahahah hell yeah man, I once vegged under a 50w 5000k flood light, did the thing!!! I have to admit, the blurp I got does pump them a little harder than the flood light, but then again the blurp is 360w (270true watt) so it puts up quite a fight for the 50w flood, but I am convinced if I added another 50w flood I would've had identical results and the 50w flood cost a fraction of the price of the blurp... and with the blurp you can't see shit, then you have to switch lights off and bring another light in like a head lamp or flashlight just to see the plants. Blurp is TRASH!!!  ....I still use mine to veg though no one interested in buying, I even removed my sale post as I would feel too ashamed pawning off this peice of crap to someone else. will let her run till she can't run no more and replace the bitch ☺ 

already got the 288qb samsung helping her out. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

 

20 hours ago, TikyIckee said:

Hey Peeps

This was an awesome read. Kudos to you @Naughty.Psychonaut, the light looks like it came straight of an assembly line. What's put me off building one is stray wires and sh#£ that look more like Frankensteins monster. 

I currently use an HLG 100 to veg and have 2x600W HPS lights which I switch over to flower. I'm  pretty pleased with them so far and there's been no real stress to plants as the switch from LED to HPS happens. 

Been eyeing out the Lumi 720W which according to my research runs on the lumi ballast. My confusion here is : Is a driver and a ballast the same thing? I have been under the impression that a driver simply converts AC to DC for the diodes to run correctly. So driver for LED and ballast for HPS.  Would anyone out there recommend the Lumi 720W? Is anyone able to do an explanation (for dummies) on my driver/ ballast confusion?

Stay safe, stay blessed. Peace always ✌ 

Hey @TikyIckee hope all is good your side! 

BROOO, these two packs and your wire nightmares are gone for good...

I buy the tiny plastic brackets at ACDC, they come in different shapes and sizes. you literally make a line where you want the wires to run, slap a few sticky brackets on, and cable tie all the wires all along the one single line. ease pease lemon squeeze

Honestly man, if I had the money I would run HID's too... you gona need everything though, I would first install a solar grid so I can store some electricity before I think about that jump, because with HID comes air conditioning. and those two things can suck you dry better than a gold digger wife.

they do however produce the best nugs in my opinion!! 

about the Lumii ballast thing, a ballast and a driver is not the same thing if you look at it just like that, but in this case it does the same thing, I guess.... they probably configured the light in such a way so that the guys with the Lumii ballasts can make the jump for cheaper, another marketing tactic to convince people to make the jump and to keep them supporting Lumii.

a ballast is just a old school name for a converter, you get different ones, but these that work specifically with lights just do what the lights need to put out, they convert the power from the wall to the power that the HID needs to put out. a driver is just a modern fancy name for converter aswell. depending on the technology and the form of power it needs to put out it will need a certain converter to do that. when building a samsung LED off digikey you'll see that there are many different MeanWell HLG drivers and they all do different things also, and each one is compatible with different strips depending on their outputs.

I am almost certain that I wouldn't be able to wire up my MeanWell HLG driver to that Lumii LED, just because the tech does not support eachother or is incompatible. 

I could be way off though, these are just my speculations  

[Ill_Evan]

1 hour ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

I haven't found information on what diodes they use and as I am aware, that's what makes all the difference.

The big fad right now is additional UV diodes which, frankly, aren't true UV and plus, people aren't even aware of the dangers of true UV and how to protect yourself when using it. 

The commercial LEDs are definitely getting nicer, and they could be making them cheaper still if they weren't trying to stuff every gimmick onto the boards. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

21 hours ago, Ill_Evan said:

The big fad right now is additional UV diodes which, frankly, aren't true UV and plus, people aren't even aware of the dangers of true UV and how to protect yourself when using it. 

The commercial LEDs are definitely getting nicer, and they could be making them cheaper still if they weren't trying to stuff every gimmick onto the boards. 

Yeah I see this thing going around, there's still a bunch of research we owe to understanding artificial UV lighting as a whole. I guess the way we play and mess around with the stuff more and more answers will come to light, so this is all the trial and error phase  

I have to admit a friend of mine with a 1m x 1m tent and a 300w qb (close to same setup as mine) with added 660nm diodes added does have better flowers than me didn't wana admit it at first, but it is what it is! 

I mean for the price difference I'd shit myself if there wasn't also a difference in yield quality!!!  

check this out, a shop in Paarl has light made for them with their brand on, offering QBs with Samsung strips they have Veg specific, Full Spectrum and Bloom Light to choose from, individually. Not only one option that's supposed to do it all. (one thing that does all usually does all to a mediocre extent or just plain shit) notice the price difference if you take the bloom light with the Deep / Far red diodes added...

quite a big price jump....

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

My question is this.... 

scrap veg from the convo, when we say "added red diodes" we talking flower light. 

If a light has generic diodes paired with 660nm diodes, will it make enough of a difference to not have to use LM301H diodes? example, can I use Bridgelux strips with 660nm diodes and outperform a light with just LM301H that doesn't have any 660nm diodes?

I would still like to know what strips the Lumii light used, even though the thing is too big for my setup, I couldn't be interested in it even if I wanted to hahahah

[TikyIckee]

A good consideration indeed @Naughty.Psychonaut...

IMO first prize is going to be those LM301H diodes paired with the red 660nm diodes. These red diodes definitely seem to be making a huge difference to flowers and the LM301 are considered the best diodes currently so a mix of both should be best.

I seriously doubt that the Lumii is using the LM301 diodes but if they are then that has to be an awesome light.

Here's another question, If my ballasts are Backline and not Lumii, would they still be able to operate on the 720W Lumii LED.? I'm guessing that they might but surely the manufacturers want users to stick to their product and would have designed the LED to be compatible with their ballast and not others. My guess is it could work but probably not as well as it should. 

Also those red diodes found on lights are not manufactured by Samsung. When those Lm301's found their way into grow lights they quickly became a game changer. Do you think Samsung might produce their own red diode that might become the new standard for grow lights again? 

Peace ✌ 

[Ill_Evan]

38 minutes ago, TikyIckee said:

If my ballasts are Backline and not Lumii, would they still be able to operate on the 720W Lumii LED.?

I'd assume they would be fine as long as they are similar ballast types ie they are both digital ballasts and you set the Backline ballast to the correct wattage. Those Lumii ballasts don't look like traditional LED drivers. Lumii also sells plenty of other stuff that requires traditional ballasts so it makes sense that they would develop an LED that you could just replace your HPS setup with without having to also replace your ballasts. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

2 hours ago, TikyIckee said:

A good consideration indeed @Naughty.Psychonaut...

IMO first prize is going to be those LM301H diodes paired with the red 660nm diodes. These red diodes definitely seem to be making a huge difference to flowers and the LM301 are considered the best diodes currently so a mix of both should be best.

I seriously doubt that the Lumii is using the LM301 diodes but if they are then that has to be an awesome light.

Here's another question, If my ballasts are Backline and not Lumii, would they still be able to operate on the 720W Lumii LED.? I'm guessing that they might but surely the manufacturers want users to stick to their product and would have designed the LED to be compatible with their ballast and not others. My guess is it could work but probably not as well as it should. 

Also those red diodes found on lights are not manufactured by Samsung. When those Lm301's found their way into grow lights they quickly became a game changer. Do you think Samsung might produce their own red diode that might become the new standard for grow lights again? 

Peace ✌ 

yeah I fully agree that the samsung diodes paired with red diodes will be the winner, but I am on the same page as you with the Lumii light not using the samsung strips, otherwise it would be the first thing they wana let the users know. I don't see anything about the brand of strip used. that concerns me and leads me to think it's bridgelux strips or something. 

in which case I don't think that light is that much better of an option than building a DIY with samsung strips and having the option to add red diodes on your own will. 

I am trying to figure out if that Lumii is really a better option or not.

I mean if I have a DIY LED without red diodes that doesn't mean it has to stay that way and if the other option is a light around the same price but it's got weaker diodes just with red added, then I will stick with my DIY being the better option.

 

[The_StonedTrooper]

Somewhere, someone mentioned Lumii using Sanan chips, you can search the forum if you'd like to see for yourself, but cant find any backing data, though I have found on Google, 2 places saying they use their own / sister company possibly, called LumiLED (Philips made, correction) and find a few details for them, but cant be sure at all.

The specs, output and such seem decent, and wouldnt mind checking it out properly 

Any more info would be great, someone know the guys at the company we can ask?

Edited May 20, 2022 by The_StonedTrooper
Added Phillips

[Ill_Evan]

1 hour ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

The specs, output and such seem decent, and wouldnt mind checking it out properly 

I was trying to find what diodes they were using but they just have a bunch of info on the lens over the diode but other than ppfd readings they don't say much. 

Wouldn't it be funny if it were just the ol' Samsung LM301B/H diodes 

[The_StonedTrooper]

6 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

I was trying to find what diodes they were using but they just have a bunch of info on the lens over the diode but other than ppfd readings they don't say much. 

Wouldn't it be funny if it were just the ol' Samsung LM301B/H diodes 

Nothing solid out there, but alas the PPFD aren't that bad, and the Efficiency too...

 

Might be naughty and try it

[The_StonedTrooper]

[The_StonedTrooper]

The mystery will always be, and only they will know...lol

[Ill_Evan]

On 5/3/2022 at 10:58 AM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

I am trying to figure out if that Lumii is really a better option or not.

We are getting really close to having retail products that are just as good and as cost efficient as going DIY. For a long time, you had to build your own QB then guys like @Light It Up came along to essentially take the same DIY formula but get the parts for you and basically have it ready setup for you. 

One really big consideration I keep in mind with LEDs is what happens when you hit your rated 50000 hours of use, what are you going to do? Are you going to replace your entire LED fixture? Can you replace the diodes alone? 

I know for a fact that the QB panels I use you can easily remove the QB288 board with the diodes on it and just simply replace it. They aren't even grossly expensive, the most expensive parts of the QB is the heatsink and then the driver, both of which you can keep. 

So when it comes to the new Lumii LED, and let's throw in that GIB lighting LED as well, can the diodes easily be replaced at end of life? 

7 minutes ago, The_StonedTrooper said:

Might be naughty and try it

I gave it a serious consideration as I needed to recently purchase lights for a 1.2x1.2 tent and I ended up getting two 240W QBs for R6k 

[The_StonedTrooper]

2 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

I gave it a serious consideration as I needed to recently purchase lights for a 1.2x1.2 tent and I ended up getting two 240W QBs for R6k

The only reason I wouldnt do QB, and no offense only opinion, was coverage alone.

Good price and good DIY replacement parts.

4 minutes ago, Ill_Evan said:

So when it comes to the new Lumii LED, and let's throw in that GIB lighting LED as well, can the diodes easily be replaced at end of life?

Exactly, throw in the GIB LED, same distribution company, and way different prices, for essentially the same thing, bar the LED specs

But, what if, those both had the same LEDS made by Samsung, or whomever, and they asked you double the amount for the one, as opposed to the other, when the Watts are slightly more on the cheaper

Who'd purchase the first?

Might have withheld data, for this reason, or it could be just a lower spec name brand, with their best chips

How do we know???