Outdoor Autos in the Winter

[ORGANinc.]

15 minutes ago, Darclinc said:

Pardon my ignorance, but what does this do?

Ya then poor about 2l of water through the soil, plant some cover crops while you do that. What this will do is lower CEC in the soil, like how @Naughty.Psychonaut explains if the TDS is too high it definitely wont be beneficial to start a plant in that soil.

Now we know for a fact that which ever way the inconsistencies fall in Orgasoilux, none of that matters, it will always be Jam packed with nutrient, as it is a super nutrient dense soil.

Now when a soil oxides, and has many nutrients, they are more pronounces, because the soil is dry. For seeds and young plants, you want to cushion the initial nutrient blow, by doing what I suggested.

There are more advanced steps one can take before plant that make it even more favorable for the roots, like watering with humic and fulvic acids, they are not nutrient dense so don't think about it like food, but more like the master keys in gardening, they allow the chelation of literally hundreds of nutrients, basically enforcing everything to place nice, almost like the cops who direct traffic when the robots are broke. 

Then also innoculating with Mycorrhizal. This is scientifically proven to be the biggest dollar return investment a farmer can make at initial planting as the benefits are astronomical. As the roots grow a vast colony of beneficial fungi grow with it increasing root growth exponentially. 

Then even trace minerals can be added, but not with Orgasoilux, too much nutrient there.

Just a few to mention

Edited June 9, 2022 by ORGANinc.

[Darclinc]

Ok great, thanks for the tips.

[Darclinc]

18 minutes ago, ORGANinc. said:

Then also innoculating with Mycorrhizal. This is scientifically proven to be the biggest dollar return investment a farmer can make at initial planting as the benefits are astronomical. As the roots grow a vast colony of beneficial fungi grow with it increasing root growth exponentially. 

Any specific version of this product you can recommend? Also, how and when is this applied?

[Darclinc]

Like would this be a good option and, more importantly, enough for my 4 autos?

https://www.takealot.com/plantmatter-s-myco-plantmatter-mycorrhizal-fungi-substrate-250ml/PLID70922347

[ORGANinc.]

2 minutes ago, Darclinc said:

Any specific version of this product you can recommend? Also, how and when is this applied?

Ill let you in on a little bit of a secret, the best version available is gotta be Biocult Mycorrhizal from Hydroponic, it has a few specialized species that I've had my eye on for some time. I have not purchased it yet as I still have my trusty generic granular version from hydroponic. 

But a little fun fact, apparently people have done some microscope work on how the different grades of mycos spores populated and the powdered forms have the amazingly better hit rates. 

But why would that come as a surprise, we all know about surface area by now surely. 

Anyway its not cheap either. there are other more affordable granular version there too.   

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

8 hours ago, Darclinc said:

Not at all, I appreciate the valuable input! FWIW I have bought this combo Temp, PH and EC pen. Hopefully it does the trick.

I had another question which I've been meaning to ask, specifically since these are going to be outdoor plants: 

What do you do if it rains heavily? There's so much talk about over watering, so presumably when it rains for days on end (happens in CT frequently in winter), are you meant to take them out of the rain?

Also, does it typically flush all the nutrients from the soil and means you should replenish it?

D

small plants are the easiest to overwater in the rain we all learn this the hard way. 

It's best if you can move them out of the rain into a dry area specialy when they in flower and it's raining for a long time. more because of PM on the plant itself than the rain being too much water in the pot. 

even a vegging bush if it's real dense you should be more worried about PM if it's too humid for too long. 

usually plants perk up nicely after the rain and you see all the talk about what magic rain water can be when used with a good living soil. as long as you getting a craft soil with good drainage and the pots you use allow for water to run away freely, you'll be fine. In case you have your pots sitting in trays or something and it pools up it can become a problem, but easily fixed by raising the pots and / or removing the trays.

the nutrients, it has to rain quite a lot to flush a only a small bit of nutes out your pot, though it's not impossible. it's a little subjective though, depending on the EC of the soil before the rain. if it's already low or you got a big plant in a small pot that requires a lot of nutes, this all puts you at higher risk of ending up with a few yellow leaves after the rain. if you got good EC you should be fine. 

but then I have also found some of my pots stay dry outdoors sometimes if it only rains for a day, cause the amount of water is not enough to get through the bush and the amount of water that does make it to the pot is only surface moisture that dries up especially with the 4 seasons in one day we are so blessed with here in the Western Cape except like I said with the small plants, they drown easily if the pot is too big and too wet. 

I haven't used that a specific PH/EC pen so I have no idea how they are, but we will see  

once you get it I would say test your well point and all water round the house, find the best stuff for you

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

19 hours ago, ORGANinc. said:

Ill let you in on a little bit of a secret, the best version available is gotta be Biocult Mycorrhizal from Hydroponic, it has a few specialized species that I've had my eye on for some time. I have not purchased it yet as I still have my trusty generic granular version from hydroponic. 

But a little fun fact, apparently people have done some microscope work on how the different grades of mycos spores populated and the powdered forms have the amazingly better hit rates. 

But why would that come as a surprise, we all know about surface area by now surely. 

Anyway its not cheap either. there are other more affordable granular version there too.   

I am using the biocult at the moment, have done some light testing on clones when I repot them with / without the powder. saw quite a bit of difference in the roots. it works!

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

19 hours ago, Darclinc said:

Like would this be a good option and, more importantly, enough for my 4 autos?

https://www.takealot.com/plantmatter-s-myco-plantmatter-mycorrhizal-fungi-substrate-250ml/PLID70922347

when using mycos, you just add a teetsy bit, like half a teaspoon. 

you can water it in with the first watering you do, mix the half a teaspoon with the water and stir nicely. preferebly dechlorinated water for this as the chlorine can hinder the living organisms. 

or the easiest way I have founf is filling the new pot as you would when transplanting and just add the half teaspoon on the hole you left in the new pot for the small plant to go in. then just lightly mix it with the soil around the hole. as soon as the roots move into the new soil it will form a relationship with the mycos and they will live happily ever after. 

I also mix some into my "kooking" soil. When I finish a cycle I dump all the soil in a big 100L pot, break down clumps and get rid of big root balls, then reamend with elemental blend and mycos and it stands like that till I am ready to do my next batch 3 months later. 

I will flip the soil in the pot once or twice, sometimes not at all. 

[Darclinc]

On 6/9/2022 at 7:19 PM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

It's best if you can move them out of the rain into a dry area specialy when they in flower and it's raining for a long time. more because of PM on the plant itself than the rain being too much water in the pot. 

Thanks, I thought as much. Going to be tricky to do that on the roof.

 

On 6/9/2022 at 7:19 PM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

In case you have your pots sitting in trays or something and it pools up it can become a problem, but easily fixed by raising the pots and / or removing the trays.

Along with the fabric pots I also bought some plastic pot raisers to prevent any water from pooling.

 

On 6/9/2022 at 7:19 PM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

the nutrients, it has to rain quite a lot to flush a only a small bit of nutes out your pot, though it's not impossible. it's a little subjective though, depending on the EC of the soil before the rain. if it's already low or you got a big plant in a small pot that requires a lot of nutes, this all puts you at higher risk of ending up with a few yellow leaves after the rain. if you got good EC you should be fine. 

Thanks, I still need to do a bit of reading and research on EC and what it means. I know what it stands for and what it respresents, but haven't really assembled any information on what constitutes a good or bad EC.

 

On 6/9/2022 at 7:19 PM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

except like I said with the small plants, they drown easily if the pot is too big and too wet. 

In my case the pots are quite small (10l) and they will only really be moved to a potentially high rain area once they're about a month old, hopefully by that time the leaf coverage will be more adequate. I guess I could just make a small makeshift raincoat for the pots out of a plastic bag if it gets really hectic.

 

On 6/9/2022 at 7:19 PM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

once you get it I would say test your well point and all water round the house, find the best stuff for you

Thanks, that's the plan. I aim to test a few controls as well to see how accurate it is. But at this point I will most likely use the tap water filtered through the carbon filter in the fridge.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Darclinc

[Darclinc]

On 6/10/2022 at 6:16 AM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

when using mycos, you just add a teetsy bit, like half a teaspoon. 

I ended up buying it and I also spoke to the company that makes this product on Friday. He suggested about 1 teaspoon. Thankfully it doesn't look like you can overdo it.

On 6/10/2022 at 6:16 AM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

you can water it in with the first watering you do, mix the half a teaspoon with the water and stir nicely. preferebly dechlorinated water for this as the chlorine can hinder the living organisms. 

Yes, based on the discussion I had with the company I bought it from, the plan is to mix a teaspoon or so into the Orgasoilux's top layer, most likely distributing most of it more or less where the seedling will go, and water about 20-25% or roughly 2l. Then let that sit for a good couple of days before planting. That way, hopefully when the seedlings reach the soil it will already have some good stuff going on and not be too harsh on them.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Darclinc

[Darclinc]

Another question, is it advisable to plant slightly off centre if you intend to do some LST?

I see mixed responses on the subject.

[Prom]

Depends a bit how you do your LST.. if you bend the hole plant over first, off center isn't a stupid idea.. but i usually just pull the side branches to the outside. Training is usually done to indoor plants to keep the canape even. Indoor light is not the same as the Sun, fades with distance very quick while the PAR you measure in sunlight on top or bottom plant is still the same reading. Outdoor training is done to maximize harvest, indoor training to reduce fluff buds.

If is your first grow.. I wouldn't go to complicated.. the more you add to your first run.. the easier you run into a fuckup.  Starting to drive with a F1 car Setup will not make your life easier as a beginner. Normal car is fine.. then add step by step more complexity to the menu. As LST says.. light STRESS training. Still stress... learn to grow the plant, autos are cool. But over all you will want to run a few photos too, so you can learn their behavior too and the combined knowledge will teach you how to grow cannabis. 

[Darclinc]

1 minute ago, Prom said:

Outdoor training is done to maximize harvest, indoor training to reduce fluff buds.

My intention is to do some very, very basic LST, mainly starting with the main stalk after about 3-4 weeks and bending that one down to the opposite end of where they are going to be planted, and then maybe doing a few other of the main branches depending on how it goes from there.

I've read up on the method you describe as well, but this seems to be a more prevalant method with shorter, stubby plants with a thick main stem that cannot be bent. Anyway, I'll see how it goes and adjust accordingly. I want to do LST for a few reasons:

a) to attempt to maximise any yield during already trying conditions

b) to grow shorter, wider plants that's hopefully more inconspicuous and has a higher resistance to wind

c) because it seems like a fun thing to do

3 minutes ago, Prom said:

If is your first grow.. I wouldn't go to complicated.. the more you add to your first run.. the easier you run into a fuckup.

Absolutely, I only intend to do a few steps of it and I'm trying to keep the rest of the plan quite basic. If I've learned anything from the countless hours of videos and whatnot I've watched and stuff I've read, is to try and keep the process simple.

[Prom]

1 hour ago, Darclinc said:

My intention is to do some very, very basic LST, mainly starting with the main stalk after about 3-4 weeks and bending that one down to the opposite end of where they are going to be planted, and then maybe doing a few other of the main branches depending on how it goes from there.

I've read up on the method you describe as well, but this seems to be a more prevalant method with shorter, stubby plants with a thick main stem that cannot be bent. Anyway, I'll see how it goes and adjust accordingly. I want to do LST for a few reasons:

a) to attempt to maximise any yield during already trying conditions

b) to grow shorter, wider plants that's hopefully more inconspicuous and has a higher resistance to wind

c) because it seems like a fun thing to do

Absolutely, I only intend to do a few steps of it and I'm trying to keep the rest of the plan quite basic. If I've learned anything from the countless hours of videos and whatnot I've watched and stuff I've read, is to try and keep the process simple.

Winter grow is smaller.. Autos don't turn into 4 meter trees. The bigger the pot, the taller the plant. If you stick to a 10L pot, the plants will hardly reach 75-90cm during summer. Winter temp/weather wise, less big anyhow.

Bending the main is about as radical as LST can be done. As you do not care about canape outside, i would just LST the side nodes to have sun as much as possible without getting shade by any fan leaf. Autos you avoid removing anything... tug away the fan leaf if needed, don't remove it. Autos love no stress ^^

[West Coast Vaper]

My outdoor lot really off to a slow start.
Condition's not ideal but I wanted to see for myself.
Will be updating that thread soon.

As far as growing autoflower, this is what I've learnt planting close to 100 if not more seeds thanks to @Bay Seeds.

Start with tried and tested soil.
Plant 3 seeds per 10l pot.
Humidity dome for the first week.
Only spray for watering, no watering soil directly.
Nurture those futhermuckers.
Tried LST. All those plants ended up smaller than the ones left alone.
Once the plant is strong enough I water maybe once a week.
After a month or so I stick my finger in the soil every day to judge watering times.
Occasional molasses.

Male's aside I've harvested about a third of the plants.
So that gives me about 30 plants that were flops.

Sent from my S40 using Tapatalk

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

21 hours ago, Darclinc said:

Along with the fabric pots I also bought some plastic pot raisers to prevent any water from pooling.

I usually opt for solid plastic pots outdoors, otherwise they dry out too fast outdoors, but you'll be fine since it's winter for now. Just keep an eye on that when summer time rolls around with regard to the pooling, this will only really be an issue in the rain, so keep them handy, otherwise keep with their base in a tray, because when you feed or water cause the plants are dry, then you don't want the runoff to run away, but rather to soak up the nutrients and bit of water you gave it. like I said, you really only need to raise the pots when it rains.

just give Proms Little Tent thread a looksee, he went into detail about how his new raised pots are causing him problems. this can happen outdoors too, so literally only when it rains should you raise the pots. 

21 hours ago, Darclinc said:

Thanks, I still need to do a bit of reading and research on EC and what it means. I know what it stands for and what it respresents, but haven't really assembled any information on what constitutes a good or bad EC.

IMHO, the whole EC thing is easier to understand and navigate than PH. not sure why so many people overcomplicate it. once a new grower steps up there's a bit of a ego block where it took the experienced guys some time to understand something so now they don't wana tell the next person how easy it really is, people get a thrill watching others struggle and not help them and take little petty jabs with their "get on my level" notion, without really trying to really help a person. 

EC, you know stands for Electrical Conductivity. We learned in school that water is conductive... the more dissolved solids (TDS = total dissolved solids) the higher your EC will be. the higher Parts Per Million (PPM) the higher the EC.... this directly equates to your nutrient count. 

Too high EC/PPM/TDS = too much nutes / hot soil

Too low EC/PPM/TDS = too little nutes / dead soil 

Perfect EC range = differs between Organic & Hydro, although the big picture stays the same - small plant want small EC, big plant want big EC

seedlings -> 0.1 - 1.5 EC

medium size -> 1.6 - 5.0 EC

flowering plant -> 5.1 - 7.5 EC

once you see your first amber trichom, inside a bud, not on sugar leaves, then you stop feed to save some money and just give water as the plant has already stopped taking up nutes anyway. don't flush the nutes out like people say, the end of cycle flush just refers to moving to clean water, because the plant doesn't go from taking potentially 7.5EC to nothing at all, it slowly eats less and less, but still wants food, just less of it and what's left in the soil will be more than enough for two weeks. 

22 hours ago, Darclinc said:

Thanks, that's the plan. I aim to test a few controls as well to see how accurate it is. But at this point I will most likely use the tap water filtered through the carbon filter in the fridge.

Sounds good! Just don't give them cold fridge water root zone prefers to be at a constant temp between 25 and 30°C. 

giving a plant cold water will slow down root development and could stunt over all growth quite a bit. 

in nature the cold slows down eeeeeverything

[Darclinc]

19 hours ago, DamDave said:

Male's aside I've harvested about a third of the plants.
So that gives me about 30 plants that were flops.

Eish, the odds are not in my favour. I've only got the 4 seeds, so let's see what happens.

19 hours ago, DamDave said:

Only spray for watering, no watering soil directly.

For how long?

Edited June 13, 2022 by Darclinc

[Darclinc]

20 hours ago, Prom said:

As you do not care about canape outside, i would just LST the side nodes to have sun as much as possible without getting shade by any fan leaf.

So am I right in understanding that outdoor plants will have more yield than indoor plants, due to the direction of the light and the fact that it moves?

[Darclinc]

36 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

Too high EC/PPM/TDS = too much nutes / hot soil

Too low EC/PPM/TDS = too little nutes / dead soil 

Perfect EC range = differs between Organic & Hydro, although the big picture stays the same - small plant want small EC, big plant want big EC

seedlings -> 0.1 - 1.5 EC

medium size -> 1.6 - 5.0 EC

flowering plant -> 5.1 - 7.5 EC

Thanks for the explanation, that seems simple enough. And do you measure this in the runoff after watering only? How else would you do it when you are at the very early stages and cannot measure runoff due to just giving a little bit of water, i.e. not nearly enough to cause any significant runoff?

39 minutes ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

Sounds good! Just don't give them cold fridge water root zone prefers to be at a constant temp between 25 and 30°C. 

giving a plant cold water will slow down root development and could stunt over all growth quite a bit. 

Yes, I intend to let it sit and get to at least ambient temp before watering.

[Darclinc]

19 hours ago, DamDave said:

My outdoor lot really off to a slow start.
Condition's not ideal but I wanted to see for myself.
Will be updating that thread soon.

Very interested to see as well, please let me know when you've updated it.

FWIW, two other friends of mine are also growing autos outdoors as we speak, one planted about a month ago and one about a week ago.

The older plant, an Auto Gelato 420, is looking happy and healthy and has had very little attention according to him:

 

[Martin7318]

This whole thread just threw me back to August of last year when I decided to take the dive into growing my own cannabis! Varying opinions, unanswered questions and often, left with more questions than answers.

Since then I've had 3 grows with 2 successful harvests. The 1 unsuccessful grow was actually Auto's and the whole experience threw me completely off of them. They seem like a great idea, they grow quick, they stay small, they don't need strict light schedules. How wonderful? Right? Na Bru! Someone mentioned earlier not to sneeze near them, I resonate with that . They are super fussy and definitely require more experience than Photos in my opinion. 

Now, with that said the best way to learn is to just go for it. 2 things that effected me heavily in the beginning were Soil and PH. Bad soil almost killed my plants. You're already doing better than me here with your good soil. PH was a tricky 1. I was given advice all the way from 5.5 to 6.8 and that is a huge difference in PH. 6.5 worked great for me in soil and I aimed for that every time I watered. You will never get it to exactly 6.5 every time and that's perfectly fine. 

What I found super helpful in the beginning was directing questions I deemed "urgent" to 1 or 2 specific people. This helped get me the answers I needed and directed me to a specific growing style. 10 different people will give you 10 different answers and all 10 can be correct. This is majorly confusing to someone just starting out. Questions where you hope for opinions are great for groups of people. Not so much when your grow is dying and you need urgent assistance .

This forum is filled with amazing grows. You'll do perfectly well getting help from these dudes as I did! Pick your favorite diaries and try copy their style until you find your own. 

Happy growing dude, and good luck with the Auto's this winter. Excited to see how they turn out for you

[Darclinc]

20 hours ago, Martin7318 said:

PH was a tricky 1. I was given advice all the way from 5.5 to 6.8 and that is a huge difference in PH. 6.5 worked great for me in soil and I aimed for that every time I watered. You will never get it to exactly 6.5 every time and that's perfectly fine. 

From what I've read around 6.2 is where you want to be. Again, this may not be 100% correct but this is most likely what I am going to be aiming for.

20 hours ago, Martin7318 said:

10 different people will give you 10 different answers and all 10 can be correct.

Indeed. This is why I always read quite a lot and, to a degree at least, try and average out the opinions I get.

20 hours ago, Martin7318 said:

Happy growing dude, and good luck with the Auto's this winter. Excited to see how they turn out for you

Thanks, I'm probably going to be posting a grow diary on here. Then everyone can either silently laugh, ridicule, praise or tell me how lucky I am.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Darclinc

[Martin7318]

4 hours ago, Darclinc said:

Thanks, I'm probably going to be posting a grow diary on here.

Looking forward to it

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

22 hours ago, Darclinc said:

do you measure this in the runoff after watering only? How else would you do it when you are at the very early stages and cannot measure runoff due to just giving a little bit of water, i.e. not nearly enough to cause any significant runoff?

Well there are different ways to do this, I usually know when I repot, the plant that gets potted needs water at that time, so when I repot I'll have to saturate my medium to ensure no dry pockets. this will also ensure a few drops of runoff. the key is to not dunk a bunch of water all at once that way it just forms a gutter and runs straight out the bottom, but rather slowly water it to make sure all the soil gets saturated and take the first 10ml of runoff and test it. should give quite a clear indication of what's going on in the soil...

you obviously need to know the EC of the water you put in, so test that first. needs to be below 1 EC for seedling plants. 

alternatively, I've seen people fill up the pots they wana plant in, but before repotting, just water them till you get first runoff and test the EC before planting. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

realising now you are going to be growing autos, I am not really sure how to go from here I've never grown autos cause I don't trust my skill level to make something nice out of them. 

17 hours ago, Martin7318 said:

Someone mentioned earlier not to sneeze near them

this got me! 

one thing I have to mention before going forward is that you should pop the seed straight in the finishing pot. don't pop and transplant. also don't go from small pot to big pot. one big pot and done. I would say don't go bigger than 20L, also not much smaller as plants won't be able to express themself fully if they don't get to stretch out properly. rather a little more space than too little, rootbound before flower will also cause a headache and stress.

I feel autos are great for the guys who have loads and loads of weed already and don't mind only harvesting "half-plants" just for new flavour. the guys that know their setups are 100% fine tuned for absolutely no hickups, because even just a slight sign of stress takes you from potential 100g a plant to a maximum yield of +/-50g. 

in which case I would rather just go with a photoperiod, because you can clone them and manipulate them and if you stress them out there's still time to forgive and all that fancy jazz PLUS you can treat them like autos if you wana..... throw a photoperiod under 12/12 at any time and it will flower, so essentially by just having photoperiods - you have the autos aswell. but it doesn't work the other way around. 

@Darclinc I'll let you know when I am making clones again you in Western Cape?