NPK ratio for producing seeds

[TheLazyFisherman]

Evenings all

As per subject especially @Bay Seeds

@Totemic

 

I was told when producing seeds to stick to veg leaning nutes.... Any truth in this? 

[Totemic]

I stick to my normal feeding schedule with biobizz, switching to flowering nutes as usual. Once you have pollinated, there is a slight uptick in Nitrogen need as the seeds are setting up, but the biobizz schedule maintains a low 'grow' dosage along with the bloom anyway. 

 

[TheLazyFisherman]

Thank you sir

[Bay Seeds]

On 4/23/2023 at 7:23 PM, TheLazyFisherman said:

Evenings all

As per subject especially @Bay Seeds

@Totemic

 

I was told when producing seeds to stick to veg leaning nutes.... Any truth in this? 

The sts burns the plants slightly, just keep the nutes regular and you should be fine. Even the premuim soils run out of calmag after just a few weeks. Getting rootbound or overwatered lockouts will produce less quality seeds. I always spray during the lights out. Even with pest control or foliar, I always spray during the dark. 

[LitItGrown]

Magnesium is what the plant uses "extra" so to speak, when producing seeds. Epsom salts is excellent organic sub for calmag - you can get it at your local pharmacy - the Magnesium and sulphur is what you are after.

You can use a ratio of about 1 tablespoon in about 4 litres of water. - Even if your not after seeds these micros are healthy for your plant as well. 

[Bay Seeds]

11 hours ago, LitItGrown said:

Magnesium is what the plant uses "extra" so to speak, when producing seeds. Epsom salts is excellent organic sub for calmag - you can get it at your local pharmacy - the Magnesium and sulphur is what you are after.

You can use a ratio of about 1 tablespoon in about 4 litres of water. - Even if your not after seeds these micros are healthy for your plant as well. 

Epson salts is a great source of magnesium,but you still need a source of calcuim. 

[LitItGrown]

Apologies, I should have mentioned the eggshell pieces for calcium part.  That you can also get anywhere, however since it's so late grinding them to a powder might make them more soluble for the soil. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

@TheLazyFisherman hope you are well brother

the best seeds come from a healthy plant. a healthy plant does not require more of a certain thing at a certain time. a healthy plant requires a well balanced and maintained life cycle. 

when doing things the right way you will only need clean water from begin to end. if you're using nutrients it's cause your soil is lacking and unbalanced.

(not gona touch on growing with synthetics cause I don't mess with that, you start with 0 and work from there, in which case you will have to adjust your regime)

Keeping things organic, when a female plant makes seed you get a bit of a lack on the resin production side, female cannabis plants "instinctively" make the resin as a form of protection against natural pressure like the sun, bugs and animals. When they go unpollinated resin production will slightly increase to provide more protection in fear for being able to pass on their genetics. If they get pollinated they know their genetics will carry on and the plant will automatically use the energy that would have gone to the resin, now goes into making the seeds. You just gotta make sure the plant is as healthy as can be, and the rest will fall in place by itself.

It's not exactly the "one specific nutrient" to make better seeds situation. that's some stuff you hear people say at the grow shop. - the absolute worst place to get growing advice. 

the best seeds comes from a healthy plant. and to get a healthy plant takes almost the exact same every time - a well balanced regime, not X nute more during certain times. 

unless you growing with salts then adjust adjust adjust is the name of your game anyway  

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

On 5/2/2023 at 11:27 PM, LitItGrown said:

Apologies, I should have mentioned the eggshell pieces for calcium part.  That you can also get anywhere, however since it's so late grinding them to a powder might make them more soluble for the soil. 

brother.... you know how long it takes egg shell to release Calcium into the soil?  

not a viable option for providing a plant with accessible source of Calcium at all. 

this is old lady mumbo jumbo life hacks you see on these youtube family channels. 

you can put egg shells in your compost heap or worm bin to add Calcium to your final product, which will be ready in a few months only and only IF conditions are right. in a potted plant soil mix breakdown takes muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch longer

heres something you can really do with your egg shells to make it of any kinda value directly to your plants. 

If you looking for a quick fix lazy way, you gotta go with some kinda natural lime such as dolomite (finer the dust the quicker the breakdown, very potent Calcium source, very little goes a very long way) agricultural lime mix, gardeners gold dust, bonemeal...... so many. but egg shells? Not gona do a thing unless you start to build your own soil and give it months to break down before actually using the soil. 

 

[LitItGrown]

1 hour ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

you know how long it takes egg shell to release Calcium into the soil?

Lol, Technically, that depends on several factors, including the size and thickness of the eggshells, the soil pH, and the temperature and moisture conditions in the soil. Powdered eggshells will generally release calcium into the soil more quickly than whole eggshells, as the increased surface area allows for faster decomposition. (Eggshells are a good source of calcium and they are everywhere if your sources are limited, is all I am saying. Point is you will get Calcium into your soil. - Sure there are better "purchasable" calcium subs, I was simply pointing out a cheap way to get it in the mix - I also mentioned it might be too late, however check your facts again on how fast the breakdown is. it's eggshells not kryptonite and it's really irrelevant, since calcium is a micronutrient, and the plant won't use more than it genetically told to use. - some fixes like using lime will up your PH, and you could cause nutrient lockout. 

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

hahah alright bro, I'll check my facts for ya. 

while I'm at it, can you please point me out or make up a good reason why you would compare eggshells to kryptonite just cause I said they take much longer to break down??? we leave our feelings at the door my guy. 

I am not trying to have a back and forth with you bud. Everything I say here is with good intention and simply because I don't appreciate the general misinformation people promote in the gardening community. It happens way too often that my granny takes some gardening advice from facebook and now her plants aren't doing well and I have to fix the problem. Well the problem wouldn't exist if it wasn't for people going around saying to put eggshells in their potted plants

If you know all the extra steps you didn't mention before and shit that needs to be kept in check for breakdown of eggshells to make Ca available to the plant what are you trying to dodge here? You playing both sides bro, saying I am wrong but explaining the same shit I said. Did you read what I put in parenthesis literally right after mentioning the dolomite, that a very little bit goes a very long way cause it's very potent stuff...... yeah, that means don't over do it......  it's only when you over do it that your PH will swing, not just if there's too much in the soil for the plant to handle C'mon man? you know about the buffer in soil? cation exchange sites? a balance? Ca needs to be present in many different forms to balance the soil.... I'm talking bout Ca nitrate, Ca carbonate, Ca acetate, Ca chloride and the list goes on.... 

It's really not just as simple as "eggshell has calcium, put it in soil, now soil has calcium". 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

biggest difference between a potted plant and something planted directly into the earth is the symbiosis. 

the way things work in a pot and in the earth is not the same.

you'll have areas where even when adding eggshells to the soil directly in the earth it's still gona take long to break down. certainly longer than any of the Ca sources I mentioned there. Even in a compost heap hardened sources of calcium such as eggshells and bone is some of the stuff that takes the longest to break down. 

now when you powder it, it certainly does speed up the process, but you gotta remember it's powder now so you just don't see it in a big chunk anymore, but it's still there bro. Just cause you can't see it doesn't mean it's decomposed already and much less so providing the plant accessible Ca. It takes longer dude, this is general knowledge for gardeners. 

a healthy compost heap is the top of the tier list when it comes to decomposing organic matter. now you work your way back down that tier list and a potted plant will be at the very opposite end of the spectrum. egg shell take reeeeaally long to release any Ca, probably won't even really start decomposing in a pot cause there is way too little activity. 

you can do the tests yourself

[LitItGrown]

1 hour ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

I am not trying to have a back and forth with you bud.

Me neither, and I never said you were wrong, maybe off, but not wrong, I simply stood by my point, and simply because you feel it's misinformation that I only drop a one-liner of fact and start ranting on me, why not just answer the dude's question? - which was regarding nutes for seed development, upon which I merely stated that seed production uses more magnesium etc. But thanks, you made my day dude now I can tick off "argue over eggshells" off my bucket list  Oh and "If you know all the extra steps you didn't mention before..." cause most peeps here knows what "might make them more soluble for the soil" means, but then there are ones that don't and then I am happy to explain.   

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

20 minutes ago, LitItGrown said:

Me neither, and I never said you were wrong, maybe off, but not wrong, I simply stood by my point, and simply because you feel it's misinformation that I only drop a one-liner of fact and start ranting on me, why not just answer the dude's question? - which was regarding nutes for seed development, upon which I merely stated that seed production uses more magnesium etc. But thanks, you made my day dude now I can tick off "argue over eggshells" off my bucket list  Oh and "If you know all the extra steps you didn't mention before..." cause most peeps here knows what "might make them more soluble for the soil" means, but then there are ones that don't and then I am happy to explain.   

dude, go to the post I quoted you in first then scroll up one post......... you wrong in the first answer too. and I did answer the dudes question. go read carefully. 

edit - infact I answered him BEFORE I went on to make a comment about what you said. and I made a seperate post for it. so what now? still just a rant at your one liner? perhaps, don't drop one liners?

Edited May 4, 2023 by Naughty.Psychonaut

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

8 minutes ago, LitItGrown said:

Me neither, and I never said you were wrong, maybe off, but not wrong, I simply stood by my point, and simply because you feel it's misinformation that I only drop a one-liner of fact and start ranting on me, why not just answer the dude's question? - which was regarding nutes for seed development, upon which I merely stated that seed production uses more magnesium etc. But thanks, you made my day dude now I can tick off "argue over eggshells" off my bucket list  Oh and "If you know all the extra steps you didn't mention before..." cause most peeps here knows what "might make them more soluble for the soil" means, but then there are ones that don't and then I am happy to explain.   

here you go

8 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

@TheLazyFisherman hope you are well brother

the best seeds come from a healthy plant. a healthy plant does not require more of a certain thing at a certain time. a healthy plant requires a well balanced and maintained life cycle. 

when doing things the right way you will only need clean water from begin to end. if you're using nutrients it's cause your soil is lacking and unbalanced.

(not gona touch on growing with synthetics cause I don't mess with that, you start with 0 and work from there, in which case you will have to adjust your regime)

Keeping things organic, when a female plant makes seed you get a bit of a lack on the resin production side, female cannabis plants "instinctively" make the resin as a form of protection against natural pressure like the sun, bugs and animals. When they go unpollinated resin production will slightly increase to provide more protection in fear for being able to pass on their genetics. If they get pollinated they know their genetics will carry on and the plant will automatically use the energy that would have gone to the resin, now goes into making the seeds. You just gotta make sure the plant is as healthy as can be, and the rest will fall in place by itself.

It's not exactly the "one specific nutrient" to make better seeds situation. that's some stuff you hear people say at the grow shop. - the absolute worst place to get growing advice. 

the best seeds comes from a healthy plant. and to get a healthy plant takes almost the exact same every time - a well balanced regime, not X nute more during certain times. 

unless you growing with salts then adjust adjust adjust is the name of your game anyway  

 

[LitItGrown]

"perhaps, don't drop one liners?" perhaps consider some  

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. People who learn from one liners don't learn much. 

[ORGANinc.]

 

that’s egg shell powder aka calcium carbonate.

[ORGANinc.]

Aaaaayghtt! I’m ready come at me  

[TheLazyFisherman]

Couldn't help myself lol 

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by TheLazyFisherman

[LitItGrown]

On 5/4/2023 at 7:43 PM, ORGANinc. said:

Aaaaayghtt! I’m ready come at me  

Eggshell powder is typically made by sterilizing and drying eggshells and then grinding them into a fine powder. It is a commercial product widely available in health food stores and online. Eggshell powder is often used as a calcium supplement, and it can also be added to foods and beverages as a natural source of calcium.

Powdered eggshells, on the other hand, are simply eggshells that have been ground into a powder. This can be done using a mortar and pestle or a food processor. Powdered eggshells are often used in gardening as a natural source of calcium for plants, and they can also be added to animal feed as a calcium supplement.

The main difference between eggshell powder and powdered eggshells is the degree of processing. Eggshell powder is typically made using a sterilization process that removes any potential contaminants, whereas powdered eggshells may not be sterilized. Additionally, eggshell powder may contain other minerals and nutrients in addition to calcium carbonate, depending on the manufacturer.

Eggshell powder and powdered eggshells are good sources of calcium carbonate, but eggshell powder is a commercial product that has been processed and may contain additional nutrients, while powdered eggshells are simply ground-up eggshells and are typically used in gardening or animal feed.

As a general rule of thumb maintain a calcium to magnesium ratio of approximately 3:1 during the flowering stage, and it is recommended to provide between 100-200ppm of calcium to the plants in the flowering stage.
200ppm: 200mg/L x 25 L (Soil pot)= 5,000 mg or 5 grams of calcium per week - "while one teaspoon of powdered eggshells contains about 750-900mg of calcium" so, 5 grams / 0.75 grams per teaspoon = 6.67 teaspoons of eggshell powder per week. 

IN EFFECT - mystic ORGANinc. Eggshell powder has 50-100mg more calcium than powdered eggshells.

HOWEVER - as a fellow mystic, Naughty.Psychonaut pointed out that it would take time to be available in the soil, so if we say 5 weeks prior to flowering, we can sort-off use the terms months without the "s" - So if you are growing photos, you can add them a month or as "late" as 3 weeks prior to flipping.

IT IS IMPORTANT to note that the actual calcium requirements may vary depending on the specific nutrient regimen being used and the growth stage of the plant, so it is always best to monitor the plants closely and adjust the nutrient levels as needed.

Peace

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

6 hours ago, LitItGrown said:

Eggshell powder is typically made by sterilizing and drying eggshells and then grinding them into a fine powder. It is a commercial product widely available in health food stores and online. Eggshell powder is often used as a calcium supplement, and it can also be added to foods and beverages as a natural source of calcium.

Powdered eggshells, on the other hand, are simply eggshells that have been ground into a powder. This can be done using a mortar and pestle or a food processor. Powdered eggshells are often used in gardening as a natural source of calcium for plants, and they can also be added to animal feed as a calcium supplement.

The main difference between eggshell powder and powdered eggshells is the degree of processing. Eggshell powder is typically made using a sterilization process that removes any potential contaminants, whereas powdered eggshells may not be sterilized. Additionally, eggshell powder may contain other minerals and nutrients in addition to calcium carbonate, depending on the manufacturer.

Eggshell powder and powdered eggshells are good sources of calcium carbonate, but eggshell powder is a commercial product that has been processed and may contain additional nutrients, while powdered eggshells are simply ground-up eggshells and are typically used in gardening or animal feed.

As a general rule of thumb maintain a calcium to magnesium ratio of approximately 3:1 during the flowering stage, and it is recommended to provide between 100-200ppm of calcium to the plants in the flowering stage.
200ppm: 200mg/L x 25 L (Soil pot)= 5,000 mg or 5 grams of calcium per week - "while one teaspoon of powdered eggshells contains about 750-900mg of calcium" so, 5 grams / 0.75 grams per teaspoon = 6.67 teaspoons of eggshell powder per week. 

IN EFFECT - mystic ORGANinc. Eggshell powder has 50-100mg more calcium than powdered eggshells.

HOWEVER - as a fellow mystic, Naughty.Psychonaut pointed out that it would take time to be available in the soil, so if we say 5 weeks prior to flowering, we can sort-off use the terms months without the "s" - So if you are growing photos, you can add them a month or as "late" as 3 weeks prior to flipping.

IT IS IMPORTANT to note that the actual calcium requirements may vary depending on the specific nutrient regimen being used and the growth stage of the plant, so it is always best to monitor the plants closely and adjust the nutrient levels as needed.

Peace

 

Holy shit I mean you're not wrong about everything in there, but again so much additional information that has more impact on what you said before. 1st point - The Ca content from egg shell to egg shell will differ from chicken to chicken, from bird to bird, from species to species, because it's a natural thing, it's not made on a mamufacturers production line, they're not identical. Like with every other natural occuring thing. Powdering egg shell will leave you with a mix count of different stuff each and every time, cause of that very fact. an egg shell is not pure Ca carbonate, I think we all know that much? You seen a hard chicken egg shell and a thinner one? This is based on the chickens diet and the content of Ca carbonate will differ in both. Where ever you go for your info, don't go there anymore.

Brother, all you need to know right now is we are here to help you just gotta be open to it.  

few tips for ya - 

I see you using some cheap generic commercial potting soil there with the wrong composition for cannabis plants? Crazy amount of bark I see there, cannabis plants do not appreciate barky soil. Not at all. Also no cannabis specific feeds I see there, just cheap generic commercial nutrients. Same stuff we all used to use before we knew much about growing cannabis. Why would you use that soil if you know so much about soil? If you can build a soil the right way wouldn't need any nutrients anyway. Just clean water. First you gotta know a little something about living soil, but for people still buying cheap generic potting soil most of the information on that topic will go right over their heads.

I build my own soil, because I have been doing this long enough to know generic potting soil shouldn't even make it onto my property. My ladies drinking only clean water, no need for bottled nutrients, cause I know what I am doing. 

I see you also using white pots? How many people you see using white pots? You know about rule#1 - roots want blackout darkness. obviously. (under the ground is black out, no light gets there) if you can see the level of the soil line through the side of the pot then your roots don't like that pot. generally if we know what we doing we steer clear of white pots, cause such a little thing can make a big impact, but you knew that right? 

I see you also just bought a LED light with a design from the early 2000's? You could have gotten something of muuuuuuuuch better quality in output and design for a better price, had you just asked us. I built my own LED, go have a look on my page. You really could do with some guidance, you just gotta realise it first. Don't just go right off the bat thinking you're here to teach us, you're clearly not that guy.

Like the old saying goes - the more you learn the less you know - that's cause the more you learn the more you get to know how much you didn't know before and how much there still is to get to know. the vastness of information dictates you can be wrong a million times, but you can be right only a few times. that leaves us with just saying stuff to say stuff you probably going to be wrong. 

have a lekker weekend

[Bos]

And KNF wasn't even mentioned... 

[LitItGrown]

Brother I hear ya, and I'm not trying to teach anybody anything or rub people the wrong way, all I am trying to say is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I got 11 plants growing 5 strains, 7 autos (4 strains) and 4 photos, (2 strains) oh and 14 photos outside...,

Now to explain to you why I am breaking rules like crazy on various plants - I topped a 7-day old Seedling to see how the the plant reacts to that big no no. - would simply be fruitless, because I know you don't care about the small processes, we are different and that's cool. But I do, that cheap soil is the easiest for me to 1. get and 2. sterilise and nutralise it. It's got no nutritional value whatsoever... the closest point to zero.

White pots can be a good option for growing cannabis indoors, as they reflect more light than darker coloured pots, which can help to maximize the amount of light that reaches the plant's leaves. This increased light reflection can help to increase overall plant growth and yield. Additionally, white pots may help to keep the soil and roots cooler in hot conditions, as they reflect more heat than darker pots. (I lined 3 pots with higher reflection properties - the ladies at the back are 7 days older and they seem to be perfectly in love with their environment variables)

"Crows has as much right to sing as nightingales do." You do your select purchases of expensive "organic" feeds, soils, etc. But in reality, most of the best weed in the world, gets only fresh batshit, mineral spring water and tropical sunlight. - This is an entirely different chapter altogether - and in my humble opinion the key to how the plant defends itself - that old design has the power and spectrum I need (and still was really outside my budget), I monitor my VPD and DLi myself daily, regularly. Simply because I love to watch the plats re-act to adjustments. 

I am trying strain specific hypothesis (on my photos, which you would probably call torture), which when the time is right, I will share gladly my findings to those who are interested.   

If there was an exact science to growing A-grade highly potent marijuana, everybody would be doing it. But here is the biggest dynamic, genetics. That means that every individual plant will use and do what it's genetics tells it to do. for example if your 1 plant's genetics dictates that it should only use small amounts of magnesium then even if the normal amount of magnesium is there to use, the plant won't instinctively use it, however a trigger in the environment can cause the plant to suddenly start using excess amounts of magnesium because "it learned" now you will probably tell me BS, however think of it this way - If you were born in China even with your current genetics you would not be the same as you are now, if you had to grow up in China you would HAVE to adapt as you grow - Thus the debate or the result would be would the outcome be better or worse? Would you have thrived or died in China because of your genetic difference. 

So again no teaching and again I appreciate the input - you have your magics that works for you - I never denied that. I merely stated that the plants use extra magnesium for seed production and later eggshells contain calcium. You are the one that said why it wouldn't help, I then merely stated why it would... factually

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

@LitItGrown

Ok, first, if you can state something "factually", then so can I. You are not above anyone and neither are your opinions. I also then merely stated a fact and I'll do it again - it takes longer for the egg shell to break down and it takes longer to become available to the plant even if powdered. I never said it doesn't work at all, I said the approach people take is wrong, because of where they get this information and how it's presented (half assed information coming from cocky people who think they know way more than they actually do - the same way your one liner hit) best place for egg shells is your compost heap or worm bin. and that's a fact. 

If you wana be smart, the smartest thing you could have said then was "oh, I didn't know that, thanks for the tip" but nooooooooo, you had to do this whole whatever thing trying to save your feelings.

One thing you'll learn about me is I don't positively affirm everything to try and spare peoples feelings. It's tough love or nothing. I say shit the way it is. 

Second, you just opened a whole new box of frogs that I sadly wont be able to deal with. You have been wrong about a lot, but that load of you just layed out there is just.... I don't even know what to say dude... You clearly know way too much for there to be any room for any personal growth. 

I guess all I can say to you is - If you're doing it then you're doing it, goodluck with that some people have money to spend on school fees and never learn, the rest of us wana graduate at some point.

Sorry for trying to help you dude. I wont waste my time like that again. 

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Naughty.Psychonaut