NPK ratio for producing seeds

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

16 hours ago, Bos said:

And KNF wasn't even mentioned... 

Hahah I alluded to it here...

On 5/6/2023 at 5:07 AM, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

If you can build a soil the right way wouldn't need any nutrients anyway. Just clean water. First you gotta know a little something about living soil, but for people still buying cheap generic potting soil most of the information on that topic will go right over their heads.

just didn't wana complicate things for the guy too much.  

[LitItGrown]

I'm done

[Ill_Evan]

[Totemic]

Can't believe Calcium sulphate aka gypsum didn't even make it in here... 

Calcium sulphate is a more beneficial calcium source being paired with a sulphate vs the carbonate as in eggshells

It is practically pH neutral(slightly over 7), where the calcium carbonate can potentially push the pH up to 10.

Plus its super abundant and really cheap. Last price I got was R400/ton or 40c a kg... 

Gypsum has been my go to calcium source in my soils. 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

11 hours ago, Totemic said:

Can't believe Calcium sulphate aka gypsum didn't even make it in here... 

Calcium sulphate is a more beneficial calcium source being paired with a sulphate vs the carbonate as in eggshells

It is practically pH neutral(slightly over 7), where the calcium carbonate can potentially push the pH up to 10.

Plus its super abundant and really cheap. Last price I got was R400/ton or 40c a kg... 

Gypsum has been my go to calcium source in my soils. 

Theres no information that can help @LitItGrown he already knows everything, he's just "experimenting" with the wrong stuff bringing up CaSO4 wouldn't even have helped at all. 

The question OP asked - what nutes it takes to make seeds? - was already answered long before that guy came with his egg shell shit. So the discussion was more based around how and why his suggestion was not the best one and that there are many better options to go with. 

Then even goes on to tell me I must go check my facts then he goes on to compare egg shells to kryptonite out of the blue like we're at 3rd grade recess.  

I honestly can't take how people positively affirm everyone for everything they say just to spare some feelings. This is a growing forum, people come here to learn. If I knew a little and came across this forum and read kak like put egg shells to make better seeds then I run for the hills, cause clearly it's a forum that then supports bullshit fake information and doesn't check its members or doesn't allow for any actual growing. And I mean in life too. If we wana learn and grow in life we need to know how to put our feelings aside. In 2023 if you want people to pussy foot around you and not be constructive at all, if you need an echo chamber of people around you to tell you everything you say is right, then you'll never grow. In any kinda way. 

You need to be positive to see the positivety in what I just said and use it constructively. If you think what I just said is negative it's cause you're already thinking negatively. 

 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

"You" as in the general sense of the word, not anyone in particular, but everyone, myself included.

[LitItGrown]

14 hours ago, Totemic said:

Can't believe Calcium sulphate aka gypsum didn't even make it in here... 

Calcium sulphate is a more beneficial calcium source being paired with a sulphate vs the carbonate as in eggshells

It is practically pH neutral(slightly over 7), where the calcium carbonate can potentially push the pH up to 10.

Plus its super abundant and really cheap. Last price I got was R400/ton or 40c a kg... 

Gypsum has been my go to calcium source in my soils. 

Do you use gypsum it in your base mix or when do you introduce it to your medium? (Just a question - because isn't gypsum a slow release as well?)

Would it be a sulphur overkill to use Epsom salt with Gypsum for example? (Mg+S and Ca+S= too much S)

[ I do have gypsum and Epsom salt, but I have been refraining from using the 2 together because of the sulphur factor. 

I use Bonemeal in my medium as a slow-release source of calcium (not eggshells, lol) and phosphorus. (Trusting it would be available around pre-flower) (I use small amount of Epsom salts for a mag boost weekly.)]

 

[LitItGrown]

3 hours ago, Naughty.Psychonaut said:

Theres no information that can help @LitItGrown he already knows everything, he's just "experimenting" with the wrong stuff bringing up CaSO4 wouldn't even have helped at all. 

The question OP asked - what nutes it takes to make seeds? - was already answered long before that guy came with his egg shell shit. So the discussion was more based around how and why his suggestion was not the best one and that there are many better options to go with. 

Then even goes on to tell me I must go check my facts then he goes on to compare egg shells to kryptonite out of the blue like we're at 3rd grade recess.  

I honestly can't take how people positively affirm everyone for everything they say just to spare some feelings. This is a growing forum, people come here to learn. If I knew a little and came across this forum and read kak like put egg shells to make better seeds then I run for the hills, cause clearly it's a forum that then supports bullshit fake information and doesn't check its members or doesn't allow for any actual growing. And I mean in life too. If we wana learn and grow in life we need to know how to put our feelings aside. In 2023 if you want people to pussy foot around you and not be constructive at all, if you need an echo chamber of people around you to tell you everything you say is right, then you'll never grow. In any kinda way. 

You need to be positive to see the positivety in what I just said and use it constructively. If you think what I just said is negative it's cause you're already thinking negatively. 

 

Oh boy, never said "use egg shells to make better seeds" I said " Magnesium is what the plant uses "extra" so to speak, when producing seeds." and after that "the eggshell pieces for calcium part" and then I stated "however since it's so late grinding them to a powder might make them more soluble for the soil." Then this Psychonaut cat lost his fuckin mind.  Going on about feelings and sending private DMs... OMG, anyway like I said before I'm done with this dude or chick, sounds like a chick TBH, but I don't really care, since the dude took the reply thing to a whole new level  So think what you want to dude, I don't care much for the opinion of sheep.

(Oh and just FYI Calcium sulphate is composed of calcium, sulphur, and oxygen atoms - In its natural form, calcium sulphate is not immediately available to plants, as it is often in a relatively insoluble form. For example, gypsum (hydrated calcium sulphate) has a low solubility in water, so it does not dissolve readily in soil solution. However, over time, calcium and sulphur from gypsum can become available to plants (through a process called mineralization, in which soil microbes break down the gypsum and release the nutrients in a plant-available form.)

 

[Totemic]

Gypsum is part of my base soil, but can be topdressed as well at any point. 

Most calcium sources are slow realease. 

The thing about organic growing is that it shouldnt be a soil up approach. Ie. About what the plant needs. 

Rather a soil down approach. Ie. What does the soil need and what the microbes need for it to be a quality effective soil. 

The first problem is a misunderstanding the roles of various nutrients. Ca, Mg, and S are not micro nutrients but secondary macro nutrients. Together they provide a constant ionic background in the soil for various chemical interactions that do occur. They specifically offset or buffer if you will H+ ions, and this is what stabilizes the soil pH. Everything else pivots on this. The microbes, the plants ability to interact with the soil, and the balance of the chemical reactions. 

This could quickly become an essay but the point im trying to make is that nutrients dont just play a role in the plant as a building block, they have even greater roles in the soil itself. 

I would suggest anyone that is interested in organic growing methods to focus on the actual soil science. Get that right and any plant will thrive without you having to attempt trying to micro manage or decipher what it needs. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Totemic

[LitItGrown]

"They specifically offset or buffer if you will H+ ions, and this is what stabilizes the soil pH. Everything else pivots on this. The microbes, the plants ability to interact with the soil, and the balance of the chemical reactions."

This makes complete sense, but now why still top dress with Gypsum? Is this simply to keep the microbes happy with them doing their process thing or does it actually add more calcium to the soil? (I top-dress weekly with a mix of kelp meal and some volcanic rock dust (a buddy gave it to me - said it feeds beneficial microbes in the soil), some Epsom salts and a very, very small amount of bloodmeal. I will add some gypsum with the next dressing and see how the ladies react.

[Totemic]

The plant uptakes nutrients and depletes the soil of its chemistry as it grows, so topdressing or any form of feeding is addressing that. Adding more to the soil.

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

the less you have to top dress the better "well rounded" the soil was to begin with. 

a healthy plant makes the best seeds. not a certain amendment given at a certain time. going with the notion of "it takes this or that to make better seeds" may cause more harm than good, cause the plant might not need it at all. 

just focus on getting the soil well rounded. and that's what is meant by focusing on actual soil science. 

people look at the plant and say "the plant needs this", "the plant needs that", but what they should be looking at is the soil and they should be saying "the soil needs this" or "the soil needs that". 

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

So basically, what we are trying to say is, the answer to OPs question is - no nutrient. 

If the plant is healthy looking at that time don't do anything "special" like give more magnesium or anything - don't micro manage. Infact giving more of something it doesn't need can cause more harm than good. Some people can't tell if a plant is stunted, but in fact, the reason why there's such a false belief around hydroponic cycle being much faster than organic cycle, is because the majority of organic growers stunt their plants by over feeding it or micro micro managing it or their soil composition is completely wrong to begin with. Always thinking adding stuff is gona increase something in the plant, while the plant only has it's genetic potential and to reach the best of it's potential is to keep it healthy at all times. 

No funny business. We have all learned what we know somewhere else and like mentioned before, there is a BIG misconception in this industry and how people approach growing most plants. And it'a because of the marketing around nutrients. "Buy this to do that, apply that to do this" has made people look at a plant a little backwards. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Naughty.Psychonaut
😉

[Totemic]

^^' only has its genetic potential'

That should be bold text

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

[Naughty.Psychonaut]

Just now, Totemic said:

^^' only has its genetic potential'

That should be bold text

I'll fix that

[AK-47 Gold Arabesque]

16 hours ago, JasonOuston said:

It's always great to learn new tricks for nurturing our green friends. I haven't tried Epsom salts for my plants yet, but I'm definitely intrigued now! Speaking of trying new things, have any of you ever had a korean cheese corn dog? I stumbled upon them recently, and oh my goodness, talk about a delightful surprise! The gooey cheese encased in that crispy, slightly sweet batter—it's like a party in your mouth! Anyway, back to the plant talk—I'm fairly new to this forum and still exploring the world of gardening. It's such a fascinating journey, isn't it? I love discovering little tips and hacks like the one you shared about magnesium and sulfur. It's amazing how these tiny additions can make such a big difference in our plants' health and productivity.